"A job is a job", "Why don't you get a REAL job" - Why are these statements confusing?

[Eclipse Dragon]

Get a real job...
It's interesting how phrasing what you do can impact a person's perceptions enough for them to say this
(or think you're very accomplished).

If I say I'm an artist, the response is "Get a real job"

If I say I'm a freelance illustrator, the response is "Get a real job"

If I say I'm a Graphic Designer, the response is "Oh wow that's great!"

 

[Multi-Hobbyist]

Welp, another can of worms opened up. But this one ain't too bad. Anyway, I chalk it up to bigoted elitism and lay partial blame with capitalism. People who are higher up on their ladders seem to want to look down rather than admire the view they already have, nor look upwards for fear that their prying eyes will catch unwanted attention. Or maybe looking up reminds them that they too are part of the ladder system.

No matter how you look at it, it's a sad, sorry and sordid state of affairs. Its the people at the bottom that ensure the people at the top live in their luxury. And the higher up they seem to be, the less credit they seem willing to give to those lower, which in turn sets in motion the negativity. But then again who are you more likely to back with your words and/or money, an emergency services helicopter pilot or a cashier? Or even as a parent, which would you rather see your child become? (Yeah yeah, money is everything blah blah no opportunity without cash, blah blah I'm happy with whatever my kid chooses to be blah.)
Example: Person 1 is a Janitor for Company ABC, and Person 2 is a PR Executive for Company ABC. In my opinion, unless that PR Executive is dealing with strict and tense negotiations for foreign nation business, they don't deserve nearly the pay the company thinks they need compared to the tosspot who's making sure that Person 2 has a clean place to defile with their own bowel movements.

In truth, I'm an avid fan for worldwide socialism and taxing the churches. Humans are far too greedy to make neither capitalism nor communism work. No single person can retain so much power or wealth without letting it overcome them. With socialism we can get a jump start in hopefully abolishing the asinine, if somewhat true thought process of "This person does THIS for a living? That's not a real job!" That's just the worst kind of thinking, even if it is partially true. I don't believe Let's Players should be getting any money at all if they're not directly signed by the VG companies as verified testers. But in this worldwide economic slump, A Jorb Is A Jorb so I can't blame 'em.

 

[Weaver]

As a person who does Janitorial Work, I'm at a loss. I do have a stable job, but it pays shit. I love the job, because I get to meet all kinds of people and I get free food. On the other hand I can't continue to do this kind of work for the rest of my life. I know that I'm quite intelligent and I'd love to have a job that fulfilled me intellectually.

I've always wanted to get into software development. The world will always need a programmer, but the actual learning of such a job is at a loss to me. I've talked to people, but outside of going to school it just seems impossible to learn to program.

I've done janitorial work for the last 10 or so years. I've actually made good money from time to time, but I want to finally make a move that will move me up the ladder. I guess I'm just tired of seeing my intelligence go to waste.

Edit: I am VERY physically fit. I'm a fairly fast long distance runner. It makes me perfect for this type of work, but most of my co-workers over the years have always been the exact opposite.

Hmm, are you sure you talked to the right people? I have a few comp-sci friends and they tell me that learning to program without college instruction is perfectly doable, at least at the amateur level (not sure what separates amateurs from pros, maybe just depth of knowledge?). Heck, one of my friends knew a good deal of C++ before going to college. There are lots of online resources and books available on the topic, and to my knowledge (which admittedly isn't much...I only know basic java and html) a great deal of the learning comes from actually writing programs, not from learning from a professor. I believe MIT has some free resources for beginner coders.

Plus, if it's financially feasible for you, night classes at community college are a possibility.

I went to ITT for a while, and I took one programming class. The teacher moved way too fast for my liking. It seemed like she wanted everyone to know how to code in like 8 weeks or less. If I had the right resources I could have more success if I did this at my own pace.

I've always been one of those people who enjoyed cleaning jobs. I like working hard and moving around. There were certain companies I worked for that paid me $15/hour just to clean. It's not like you can't make a good living as a cleaner. You just have to live in the right place for the wages to be that high.

With my current job, I seem to get that look a lot from people. I work at a mall. It just seems like everyone looks at me like my job is so fucking worthless. If I didn't do my job, you wouldn't be able to use the bathroom without worrying if there is piss on the toilet seat.

It reminds of watching Bugglegum Crisis 2040. In the first episode you see how everyone is treating the boomers that do all the menial jobs like shit. Just replace boomers with real people. It feels like the same thing.

society doesn't value menial jobs, but need them more than ever. Somebody has to do the work nobody wants to do.

Hey there! I'm one of two lead software developers at a startup company, and if you want to learn to program I suggest taking it slowly.

I really recommend doing the MIT free courseware. This is a great first course to work through at your leisure:
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00sc-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-spring-2011/index.htm

My only complaint with the MIT courses is they're kind of just lectures they put online. What makes a lecture special is you can interact with the professor and ask questions. But, it's free.

The issue with a lot of the "Learn to code in 2 weeks!" courses and the like, is they'll teach you how to hack out some code, but they will not teach you computer science fundamentals. This is okay if you're just looking to do some small side projects or whatever, but if you really understand the core concepts of computer science it will make learning new languages and concepts a hundred times easier. Also, I've found people who really grasp CS concepts write much more efficient code, and it tends to run much faster.

So yes, this method will take a long time. But it should give you a good understanding of what you're getting into and lay out a solid base for you to build on top of!

 

[Riot3000]

You man people have egos and like to stroke themselves trying to get "people in gear" but they can get flying kick from the zombie of bruce lee. This goes hand in hand with shaming folks in "dead in" jobs.

Me personally if it pays the bills and leaves me with disposable income for spending then I don't care if I become supervisor of wtf. I know guys and gals who ignore that because its just more stress and the money difference is not that much to warrant it. Honestly a real jobs is anything where you do a service for yourself or employed by some else and you get paid for it. I know that is a pretty big umbrella and I take all deconstruction that comes with it.

 

[Albino Boo]

i get what you're saying, but surely the guy teaching archery would meet one of two scenarios eventually, either
a) people pay him to teach them, he continues teaching because there are people willing to pay for it
b) people don't pay him to teach them, he cannot continue teaching

that's kind of the nature of business, if people will pay for it, you can sell it in some form. i disagree with the whole "get a real job" attitude, just reminds me of freddy got fingered, with some people not being able to comprehend that there is more than one way to make money

I refer you to this post here.

The last labour government passed legislation making education mandatory until 18. It does not come into effect until 2015. The country faces and aging population and simultaneous debt crises. This means there are decreasing number of taxpayers having to pay for the increasing health costs and pensions of the older generation, while also having to find extra money to pay down unsustainable levels of debt. The current generation of 40 year olds already can expect a lower standard of living than their parents in retirement and to have to work longer to retire. The next generation of 20 year olds are going to have it even tougher because even middle class jobs are going to come under threat from India and China. The welfare state is creaking under the strain and there isn't room for people not to be attempting to live up their potential. If you have a degree and don't even earn the national average that means you are a net loss to the taxpayer and there simply isn't any slack left in the system for that happen anymore. They might be happy in the short term, but when the money runs out and there isn't a health system anymore they won't be very happy.

Fundamental point here is that there are far too many people who are net loss to the taxpayer, without offering vital services. Society can function without archey teachers who are putting their personal happiness first and rely on others paying for their health care and pensions. However society cannot function without people cleaning the sewers and collecting the bins.

 

[suitepee7]

i get what you're saying, but surely the guy teaching archery would meet one of two scenarios eventually, either
a) people pay him to teach them, he continues teaching because there are people willing to pay for it
b) people don't pay him to teach them, he cannot continue teaching

that's kind of the nature of business, if people will pay for it, you can sell it in some form. i disagree with the whole "get a real job" attitude, just reminds me of freddy got fingered, with some people not being able to comprehend that there is more than one way to make money

I refer you to this post here.

The last labour government passed legislation making education mandatory until 18. It does not come into effect until 2015. The country faces and aging population and simultaneous debt crises. This means there are decreasing number of taxpayers having to pay for the increasing health costs and pensions of the older generation, while also having to find extra money to pay down unsustainable levels of debt. The current generation of 40 year olds already can expect a lower standard of living than their parents in retirement and to have to work longer to retire. The next generation of 20 year olds are going to have it even tougher because even middle class jobs are going to come under threat from India and China. The welfare state is creaking under the strain and there isn't room for people not to be attempting to live up their potential. If you have a degree and don't even earn the national average that means you are a net loss to the taxpayer and there simply isn't any slack left in the system for that happen anymore. They might be happy in the short term, but when the money runs out and there isn't a health system anymore they won't be very happy.

Fundamental point here is that there are far too many people who are net loss to the taxpayer, without offering vital services. Society can function without archey teachers who are putting their personal happiness first and rely on others paying for their health care and pensions. However society cannot function without people cleaning the sewers and collecting the bins.

again, i agree with the point that society cannot function without people cleaning the sewers and collecting bins, but the point still stands that the leisure industry exists because some people CAN afford to splash out on commodities such as - for example - archery lessons. i agree they (the people running the lessons) are putting their personal happiness first, but IF (and a big if) their archery business is succeeding and they are contributing to society via taxes, who the fuck are we to tell them it is not a real job? they are making a living, are happy doing it and are contributing to wider society as a whole. if they are at a net loss then that's a different issue, and one which i was not referring to (although perhaps i should have made that clearer).

TL;DR i agree with your points, but mine still stands. if a business is successful, they will still be contributing to society and the fact that they are happy should not be relevant

 

[Atmos Duality]

Most people throwing out "Get a real job" tend to be callous backward-thinking blowhards who have a very poor grasp on the reality of the current job market. Either that, or they are stuck and are just venting their own anger at people they envy.

Never would I consider the phrase any sort of encouragement, not even in a "tough love" sort of way.

If people pay you to do it, and it's not illegal, then it's a legit job as far as I'm concerned.

That's all there is to it.

Very simple, but effective description.
I don't despair as much over the disparity in this world (the recent public anger at "The 1%" can speak volumes more than I ever care to), simply because from my understanding, we're all dust in the end.

 

[Albino Boo]

again, i agree with the point that society cannot function without people cleaning the sewers and collecting bins, but the point still stands that the leisure industry exists because some people CAN afford to splash out on commodities such as - for example - archery lessons. i agree they (the people running the lessons) are putting their personal happiness first, but IF (and a big if) their archery business is succeeding and they are contributing to society via taxes, who the fuck are we to tell them it is not a real job? they are making a living, are happy doing it and are contributing to wider society as a whole. if they are at a net loss then that's a different issue, and one which i was not referring to (although perhaps i should have made that clearer).

TL;DR i agree with your points, but mine still stands. if a business is successful, they will still be contributing to society and the fact that they are happy should not be relevant

They are not paying enough in tax to actually pay for what they use. If you are operating as a sole trader and earing £16000 a year you will pay about £1300 in tax. The average doctor gets paid over £100000 a year so the total tax paid is only enough to pay for roughly 2 hours of a doctors time. The average UK teacher gets paid £35000 a year, that comes in at roughly 6 hours of time. The tax revenue generated isn't enough to pay for public services which pushes the burden of paying for their health care, state pension and education of their children on to other people for no discernible public benefit.

 

[Parasondox]

After reading all of the post, I would like to thank you all for contributing to this thread and expressing your thoughts and feelings on these two statements. Heck many more can still add to the thread because it's a topic that will still be around. Overall job are hard to keep and jobs can be extremely hard to find which is why some people have to create their own jobs like baking, card making and others. Something to get them by and to keep them busy. No matter the job you have it's still important in this world not matter how others high up think about it.

"If you are good at something, never do it for free" - That's a quote from The Dark Knight delivered by the Joker and does have some weight to it. Don't you think? or am I just way out of the loop and a thread for another day maybe?

 

[Julius Terrell]

After reading all of the post, I would like to thank you all for contributing to this thread and expressing your thoughts and feelings on these two statements. Heck many more can still add to the thread because it's a topic that will still be around. Overall job are hard to keep and jobs can be extremely hard to find which is why some people have to create their own jobs like baking, card making and others. Something to get them by and to keep them busy. No matter the job you have it's still important in this world not matter how others high up think about it.

"If you are good at something, never do it for free" - That's a quote from The Dark Knight delivered by the Joker and does have some weight to it. Don't you think? or am I just way out of the loop and a thread for another day maybe?

I want to sing professionally, but since I don't sing pop songs, it's going to be a long hard road to making that kind of dream come true. It's sad that the only people actually making a living from singing are all the people that are the last people you'd think would make a living doing it. I just think it's a strange twist in fate.

As much as I love electronic music, How many people are actually making a living from doing that?

 

[Strazdas]

I feel like im one of the rare breed left of people who actually went to university, got a degree, used it to get a job and have a stable job now. Heck, i was doing the second degree while working at the said job and am in the process of finishing it (i have to defend the masters now and its done, so basically one hard day). I am sad that so many others couldnt fulfill their dreams and are now forced to work jobs they do not like.
In my opinion, the job should first and foremost be valued on how much you enjoy doing it, and thats why its value will be different from person to person. Of course if you cant live off it that is a problem but that does not mean you should just give up doing it.
The jobs that exist are necessary, otherwise they wouldnt exist, and i dont hold a CEO above a janitor. They all do their part and make society work and we need both of them. A job is a job, but that statement does not really imply it being a good job or a bad job. In the end its all about how much you enjoy the job.