A lack of any REAL game discussion on the escapist.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think it's good that recent games and news are discussed alongside deeper subjects. The forums are busy recently and a restructuring may be in order. However, that doesn't automatically mean that people here have nothing worth talking about.

Yeah, it kind of does. Most threads are either bitching or what's your favorite whatever.

I'll have to disagree with you there, I think there's many worthy topics that crop up. I myself recently made a thread asking peoples opinion of Final Fantasy 13-2 because I was unsure whether to purchase it. I don't think that falls under either of those.

I saw that post. One example amidst the myriad cesspool of idiocy does not prove the contrary.

The answer is no, btw.

It's hardly just one example; The discussion of the possibility of Sony's withdrawal from the console market, what people look for in a DLC, discussion of the Mass Effect 3 achievements are all worthy threads.

Not to be overly blunt, but I noticed that a few of the people complaining in this thread have relatively low post counts compared to the time they have been here. It's hardly suggestive of someone contributing possible threads or points of discussion. If you don't want to contribute don't complain about what people are actually talking about.

 

[Freechoice]

I think it's good that recent games and news are discussed alongside deeper subjects. The forums are busy recently and a restructuring may be in order. However, that doesn't automatically mean that people here have nothing worth talking about.

Yeah, it kind of does. Most threads are either bitching or what's your favorite whatever.

I'll have to disagree with you there, I think there's many worthy topics that crop up. I myself recently made a thread asking peoples opinion of Final Fantasy 13-2 because I was unsure whether to purchase it. I don't think that falls under either of those.

I saw that post. One example amidst the myriad cesspool of idiocy does not prove the contrary.

The answer is no, btw.

It's hardly just one example; The discussion of the possibility of Sony's withdrawal from the console market, what people look for in a DLC, discussion of the Mass Effect 3 achievements are all worthy threads.

Not to be overly blunt, but I noticed that a few of the people complaining in this thread have relatively low post counts compared to the time they have been here. It's hardly suggestive of someone contributing possible threads or points of discussion. If you don't want to contribute don't complain about what people are actually talking about.

Are you trying to say that post count is somehow indicative of the quality of a poster? Could it be that having very few is indicative of an unwillingness to post when people make irritating threads that are just rehashes of the same things or lots and lots of complaining?

Think about what you're saying. Why are people who demonstrate conservative behavior when it comes to posting going to go out and make a bunch of innovative threads? For shits and giggles? No, there just isn't much of anything interesting to discuss and this thread happened to get their attention.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think it's good that recent games and news are discussed alongside deeper subjects. The forums are busy recently and a restructuring may be in order. However, that doesn't automatically mean that people here have nothing worth talking about.

Yeah, it kind of does. Most threads are either bitching or what's your favorite whatever.

I'll have to disagree with you there, I think there's many worthy topics that crop up. I myself recently made a thread asking peoples opinion of Final Fantasy 13-2 because I was unsure whether to purchase it. I don't think that falls under either of those.

I saw that post. One example amidst the myriad cesspool of idiocy does not prove the contrary.

The answer is no, btw.

It's hardly just one example; The discussion of the possibility of Sony's withdrawal from the console market, what people look for in a DLC, discussion of the Mass Effect 3 achievements are all worthy threads.

Not to be overly blunt, but I noticed that a few of the people complaining in this thread have relatively low post counts compared to the time they have been here. It's hardly suggestive of someone contributing possible threads or points of discussion. If you don't want to contribute don't complain about what people are actually talking about.

Are you trying to say that post count is somehow indicative of the quality of a poster? Could it be that having very few is indicative of an unwillingness to post when people make irritating threads that are just rehashes of the same things or lots and lots of complaining?

Think about what you're saying. and this thread happened to get their attention.

If someone doesn't post anything for weeks then they can hardly complain about what is posted at that time. The quality vs quantity argument only goes so far. If the people in this thread think that there are no threads worth answering and they think they can do better then why don't they? Where are all these magically deep threads?

Why do you have a problem with said pointless threads since, as you said,

Why are people who demonstrate conservative behavior when it comes to posting going to go out and make a bunch of innovative threads? For shits and giggles? No, there just isn't much of anything interesting to discuss.

there is apparently nothing of value worth discussing.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I can see what you mean. Right about now, 4 out of every 5 topics pretty much boil down to "Do you guys see how offensively attractive the women are in Mass Effect!?", and they're getting a good deal of hits.

Yep. Not much real discussion about games here. There is some good discussion, but you'd be hard pressed to find something worthwhile to talk about in the gaming forum.

 

[viranimus]

If I would change something about the Escapist forums, I would enforce a rule where; if a thread about a particular topic has been done in the last 6 months, go post in that thread, rather than create a repeat thread about it. (Mods would lock repeat threads.)

That might be a good suggestion, but I think that conflicts with the notion of not necro'ing old threads, to which I am firmly in support of. Necro'd threads are pretty illogical. even with the rule someone will eventually necro a thread that hasnt been touched in 6 months. typically by quoting someones opinion they disagree with. Thing is. people change their minds based on new information, and we are always receiving new information. So in 6 months time your adamance about how horrible skyrim is going to be would likely have changed once youve actually played it.


________


As for game discussion, I still am not seeing any real lack of it. I mean sure, its been a while since ive seen a thread discussing the philosophical dilemas presented in bioshock vs system shock 2 or the like, but with the "news" nature of the threads here sometimes the relevant news is simply "X game has been announced" and with that, its rarely a topic that people can have a wide array of opinions on Many times it ends up in cases like that of people either saying "YES i cant wait," or Blegh, the last one sucked"

But I have seen plenty of spirited discussion. Why earlier today there was a good discussion about the concept of what if the industry went to a modified cartridge form now that we have technological access to things like SSDs and NAND flash drives. I know I got involved in that thread at least 6 times, two of which resulted in thesis long posts regarding why I favor the concept of Cartridges long before I would be behind digital distribution.

But here is the rub. Many times... those topics HAVE been done before. I know I have wrote long posts on the evils of digital distribution at least a 2 dozen times out of the almost 4000 times ive posted. Im sure I am not the only one to follow a similar path. Its sort of like the old adage, there is no original thought. So much as I have already said, you can only repeat yourself so many times.

However, there is one thing that does in fact kill discussion here. Its when people take their personal opinions and either treat those opinions as they are fact, or events when people hear something that differs with their opinion and they take it as a personal insult because someone disagrees with them. Nothing in my mind kills conversation quicker because typically it ends up, they quote you to disagree, you try explaining the same position in a different way, then they quote that post to disagree, wash, rinse repeat, until someone tries to take the higher ground and offers to agree to disagree or the mods have to step in. Either way it becomes an exercise in futility with little in the way of meaningful exchange.

So yes meaningful game discussion can be had here and does happen. Is every thread a winner? Absolutely not. Some are for just dumb fun. Are you going to get a lot of good ones every day? Some times. Some days theres nothing but lulls and lulz

 

[Freechoice]

If someone doesn't post anything for weeks then they can hardly complain about what is posted at that time. The quality vs quantity argument only goes so far. If the people in this thread think that there are no post worth answering and they think they can do better then why don't they? Where are all these magically deep threads?

Why do you have a problem with said pointless threads since, as you said, there is apparently nothing of value worth discussing.

Wow, way to remove the context around one of my statements. Please read more carefully the next time you try to win an argument with some tangential evidence. What I said pertained to their viewpoint in regards to an apathetic forum lurker not finding interesting topics. Clearly, they have some interests if they have a post count.

Not posting doesn't mean they're not going through threads. You assume too much with the "if you can't do better" argument. They don't have to do better. They're talking about the idiotic threads that get started over and over again that don't do anything to provoke thought.

And you overlooked one critical detail:
Sorting through bullshit gets very old, very fast.

I would much rather have just a few pages where every thread is worth looking into as opposed to 20 pages that are 75% bullshit retreads. And the few times I do try to make a decent topic, it gets buried by the retards bitching about Mass Effect or asking what other people's favorite whatevers are. Even if everyone that did have something interesting to say said it, there would still be the people that post insipidness.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

If someone doesn't post anything for weeks then they can hardly complain about what is posted at that time. The quality vs quantity argument only goes so far. If the people in this thread think that there are no post worth answering and they think they can do better then why don't they? Where are all these magically deep threads?

Why do you have a problem with said pointless threads since, as you said, there is apparently nothing of value worth discussing.

Wow, way to remove the context around one of my statements. Please read more carefully the next time you try to win an argument with some tangential evidence. What I said pertained to their viewpoint in regards to an apathetic forum lurker not finding interesting topics. Clearly, they have some interests if they have a post count.

Not posting doesn't mean they're not going through threads. You assume too much with the "if you can't do better" argument. They don't have to do better. They're talking about the idiotic threads that get started over and over again that don't do anything to provoke thought.

And you overlooked one critical detail:
Sorting through bullshit gets very old, very fast.

I would much rather have just a few pages where every thread is worth looking into as opposed to 20 pages that are 75% bullshit retreads. And the few times I do try to make a decent topic, it gets buried by the retards bitching about Mass Effect or asking what other people's favorite whatevers are. Even if everyone that did have something interesting to say said it, there would still be the people that post insipidness.

I don't think I took it out of context at all. If they are an apathetic forum lurker then it seems strange if they complain about people who are actually contributing threads or posts. Which is exactly what I said in my previous post.

If, as you say, there is no way to stop the repeat and pointless threads and the deep threads are to go alongside (much as they are at the moment as I pointed out earlier). Then what is the point in wielding an accusatory thread at said posters. Is it not pointless in itself.

 

[darthzew]

I've been an Escapist regular for a very long time now. I've been more of a lurker than anything (see: how long I've been here versus how many actual posts.) And I've noticed that the general quality of posts has gone down. It's not anyone's fault. The Escapist has gotten more popular and the users that kind of established the community have mostly moved on. I'm thinking of guys like darthmobius and IndigoDingo. If any of you still remember them, kudos. But in other words, times have changed.

Yeah, the discussion has gotten drier, especially ever since Extra Credits moved. It's more about hot topics than the industry as a whole, which is unfortunate, but not all bad.

The discussion here, however, still proves to be better than a lot of the other forums online. That's why I'm still here. I enjoy reading what some people have to say. It isn't perfect, for instance, fad threads are getting really annoying, but it's still one of the best places to be.

It's getting closer to four years here for me. Don't think I'd trade 'em.

 

[darthzew]

If I would change something about the Escapist forums, I would enforce a rule where; if a thread about a particular topic has been done in the last 6 months, go post in that thread, rather than create a repeat thread about it. (Mods would lock repeat threads.)

Repeat threads are a problem because they split the discussion. Anyone who posted in the previous thread usually can't be bothered posting (and repeating themselves) in the new duplicate thread, so they don't.

Believe it or not, back in the old days, repeat threads were considered a cardinal sin and it was one of the fastest ways to get modded. Users were relentless in reporting people for making repeat threads. Pointless threads were also a huge no-no.

I guess the Escapist got too big to enforce those rules? Or maybe times just change. I don't know what it is, but things have changed.

 

[lord.jeff]

If you want more insightful gaming topics, then make those topics.

 

[Freechoice]

If someone doesn't post anything for weeks then they can hardly complain about what is posted at that time. The quality vs quantity argument only goes so far. If the people in this thread think that there are no post worth answering and they think they can do better then why don't they? Where are all these magically deep threads?

Why do you have a problem with said pointless threads since, as you said, there is apparently nothing of value worth discussing.

Wow, way to remove the context around one of my statements. Please read more carefully the next time you try to win an argument with some tangential evidence. What I said pertained to their viewpoint in regards to an apathetic forum lurker not finding interesting topics. Clearly, they have some interests if they have a post count.

Not posting doesn't mean they're not going through threads. You assume too much with the "if you can't do better" argument. They don't have to do better. They're talking about the idiotic threads that get started over and over again that don't do anything to provoke thought.

And you overlooked one critical detail:
Sorting through bullshit gets very old, very fast.

I would much rather have just a few pages where every thread is worth looking into as opposed to 20 pages that are 75% bullshit retreads. And the few times I do try to make a decent topic, it gets buried by the retards bitching about Mass Effect or asking what other people's favorite whatevers are. Even if everyone that did have something interesting to say said it, there would still be the people that post insipidness.

I don't think I took it out of context at all. If they are an apathetic forum lurker then it seems strange if they complain about people who are actually contributing threads or posts. Which is exactly what I said in my previous post.

If, as you say, there is no way to stop the repeat and pointless threads and the deep threads are to go alongside (much as they are at the moment as I pointed out earlier). Then what is the point in wielding an accusatory thread at said posters. Is it not pointless in itself.

It's the silent minority finding something it is either relating to or has interest in. And a post or a thread isn't necessarily a contribution if it doesn't add anything that wasn't already here. As in a majority of the threads in the gaming section.

And a thread like this is conceivably useful. Some people are suggesting rules to get rid of the idiocy. It at least stands a chance of getting some more rules in place to regulate the flow of crap that comes forward.