A little bit of a hard hitting question.

[JordanJohnson]

Okay,

I discussed this today and I want to know YOUR opinions on this matter.
Lets say WW2 had just ended but some troops arn't informed right away ie: squads away from camp. And a 2 man sniper squad (spotter and shooter) see some nazi troops walking and decide it's in the best nature to fire. So they kill them.
But when they get back they would of course be charged for murder. Now here is where I want your opinions, so far all the people I talk too seem to have 2 different angles, either "Sure, they didn't know but they still killed a man which is murder." or "Well, based on the curcimstances they should be let go free of charged, just court marchilled or something."

What do YOU think should/would happen.

sincerely,
Jordan Johnson.

 

[Birras]

I belive perhaps striped of rank, or put in jail for a few years, merley because altough they have commited murder they may still plea ignorance in front of a court.

 

[gamshobny]

If you want to do everything by the book, then yes, they should be charged. However, since they did not kill out of some murderous desire, but to defend a country, I would say 'let them go'. They're not likely to do it again, like, by example, a serial killer.

More over, if the nazi's still have a small patrol group (I would say about 5 - 7 men) walking around, is the war then won? I mean, you have won when the other party gave up, and I'm asuming the patrol in question does not run around unarmed with a white flag, since they're being shot at. So, this patrol is there, armed and ready to fight, so they still pose a thread to their enemies, thereby the sniper patrol, so I would say the sniper patrol has thesame right to shot them as when they officialy where at war, since the situation is thesame.

If the enemy patrol would be running arounnd unarmed and with a white flag, then off course, it's murder, since it's obvious they where no longer a threat.

 

[Fire Daemon]

They wouldn't be arrested or get in any trouble. They where doing their job and had no idea that they had to stop fighting the Germans, just an unfortunate accident i suppose.

 

[JordanJohnson]

Well guys these have been some good ideas, I especially like gamshobny's idea.

While discussing this I was in the "stripped of rank" group of people.

 

[Oh-Wiseone]

I'm in the Army and let me tell you that these soldiers wouldnt be punished in any way. Not only is it a simple accident but also:
1) Millions of Germans had already died, so whats a few more
2) These Germans must also have not known that Germany surrendered otherwise they would not out on maneuver, and therefore should have been expected to act hostile.
3) The soldier's themselves wouldnt like the fact that they needlessly killed people.
4) Two man sniper groups didn't exist in WW2.

 

[GothmogII]

I can't recall if it's fictional or not, but wasn't there that story about this guy who did just that? Not sure what war it was, but the man was holed up in a jungle somewhere and didn't realise the fighting was over, so he kept at it.

 

[Fire Daemon]

I can't recall if it's fictional or not, but wasn't there that story about this guy who did just that? Not sure what war it was, but the man was holed up in a jungle somewhere and didn't realise the fighting was over, so he kept at it.

Yep, a Japanese soldier kept on fighting the good fight until 1971. He fought against the Fiji military in a gorilla style until someone eventually found him. I think he is till alive today.

 

[Oh-Wiseone]

Ya there was a Japanese soldier who was left in the Philippines with 3 other soldiers, they continued to raid nearby locals and police. I think the other 3 were killed and the last guy only agreed to surrender when his old CO went to the Philippines to order him out the jungle.
And he receieved full pardon for his actions even though he had killed about 50 people after the end of the war.

 

[JordanJohnson]

I'm in the Army and let me tell you that these soldiers wouldnt be punished in any way. Not only is it a simple accident but also:
1) Millions of Germans had already died, so whats a few more
2) These Germans must also have not known that Germany surrendered otherwise they would not out on maneuver, and therefore should have been expected to act hostile.
3) The soldier's themselves wouldnt like the fact that they needlessly killed people.
4) Two man sniper groups didn't exist in WW2.

hmm true, but here is a reply to all 4 numbered the same:

1. That might be true but it is still human lives that were killed.
2. That's also true.
3. There are some people out there.....
4. Well, this is a fiction thing I thought up so it doesn't have to be majorly accurate.

 

[stompy]

hmm true, but here is a reply to all 4 numbered the same:

1. That might be true but it is still human lives that were killed.
2. That's also true.
3. There are some people out there.....
4. Well, this is a fiction thing I thought up so it doesn't have to be majorly accurate.

Yeh, but this is the military, and rules are rules. So, if, by the book, the guys are pardoned, then they're pardoned regardless of whether they killed enemy combatants or not. Remeber, soldiers have a licence to kill (right?).

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I believe under circumstances like that they were charged but pardoned due to ignorance.

 

[L.B. Jeffries]

Already happened. Fellah by the name of Andrew Jackson wasn't given notice of the War of 1812 being over so he along with the British went ahead and blew each other's brains out like it said on the schedule.

Naturally, we made him our President.

 

[Mr Wednesday]

It's not that hard hitting.

They still beleived they were in a situation of war, and the acted according. It was a mistake, not murder. I'm fairly harsh on "colateral damage"(and that is a truly insidious term) but this is pretty clear cut.

 

[Saskwach]

I think it's a pretty simple choice: pardon. The combatants had no idea the war had ended so they acted as soldiers do in a war. It's a sad situation but there is no way you can blame soldiers for doing what they're meant to do in what they had every reason to believe was a war situation.

 

[ElephantGuts]

No one in this situation should be disciplined or punished at all. Unless they received but disregarded information that the war ended, or refused to receive the information, they were only doing what they were supposed to do, not in any way at fault. Whoever would be judging the case needs to think Logically for a second. Unless they expected God (or possibly an angel) to come down from the heavens into their sniper spot and tell them that the war is over and not to kill the soldiers, they could not have possibly known not to do that. Punishing them for it would be absolutely cruel and stupid, not to mention futile. Exactly what would it accomplish? Warn people not to do things they were told to do in case world politics might have changed while they were out doing it, making their task illegal?

 

[werepossum]

As mentioned this happens quite often, the classic example being the hundreds of Japanese soldiers after WWII who refused to believe their country would ever surrender. Soldiers who cannot reasonably know that the war has ended are not punished for committing lawful acts of war. Communications in war is unreliable at best, and soldiers are only liable for not following rules of warfare or for disobeying a lawful order.

If they instead shot two civilians whom they suspected were spotting for German artillery - a not-uncommon thing in war - then they might well have been punished. There are things that are done in time of war that are not condoned, but are recognized as being unpleasant but necessary. Things get much more strict after hostilities cease, even if you haven't been notified.

 

[Russ Pitts]

Civil War. Battle of Palmetto Ranch. The last battle of the civil war fought well after the war was generally accepted to have been over. Ironically, the Confederacy won, opening the Union commander (who'd initiated the battle) to charges of incompetence (which were dismissed), but not murder of any kind.

Moral of this story: These things happen. War is hell.