A Philosophical Thought

[Lukeje]

you've had your chances before and you wasted them. it's rarely i get frustrated, but when i do, i slam my gavel down.

if you want evolution, look at the discussion you have become part of.

I thought you said you weren't elitist? So I'm not 'good enough' to debate with now?

 

[Anomynous 167]

Sometimes cruelty is a matter of context. Antivaccine people would say that it's cruel for the state to force them to get their children vaccines, but the rest of us would say it's cruel for their disease-ridden children to be running around, infecting us with mutated, vaccine-resistant Super Die. And the populations of Germany and Japan considered what we and Russia did to them after the war as cruel, but we just shrugged it off, since we considered what they had supported so vile they weren't in a position to judge.

I don't agree that the ends justify the means. But that's only because I ask a bigger question: where do leaders get their ends, and why should the rest of us let them pursue them just because they have some title? Most of the times, in retrospect, the ends themselves weren't really justifiable by any means.

This is the 1st post in this topic that was at least halfway descent. (No offence to the people that posted later,)

 

[Hippobatman]

A bit late for a personal opinion, I'm sorry about that, I went to bed shortly after posting the thread.

However, after seeing your opinions, I will humbly post my own.

I do not believe the end justifies the means, because a morally bad action can not lead to a morally good end, though it may look like it on the surface. Leaders have tried to condone their use of violence towards individuals by making it seem like their injustice is for the greater social good, and therefore justified. However, a society should involve justice for each and everyone of us, and so the leader defeats the end he's trying to serve.

You can't use bad means for a good cause as much as you can't build a good house out of bad materials.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

So, the question I'm trying to ask: Does the means, no matter how cruel, justify the outcome if it's for the greater good?

No. Never. Stalin had this philosphy, and look at how the people suffered under him.

 

[L.B. Jeffries]

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that what has become the popular Machiavellian theory was actually written by Mr. Machiavelli with tongue in cheek. That is, Machiavelli didn't really espouse Machiavellianism.

Well, I seem to be reading in the book that he mostly said that the treatise was just a couple of ideas and should not be taken too literally. As in, obeyed like some kind of legal code. The historian who edited the version I'm looking at in my hands comments that he was both a) making fun of the current incompetent government in Italy and b) writing about the ideal leader that he ends up concluding will never happen.

 

[theklng]

you've had your chances before and you wasted them. it's rarely i get frustrated, but when i do, i slam my gavel down.

if you want evolution, look at the discussion you have become part of.

I thought you said you weren't elitist? So I'm not 'good enough' to debate with now?

you're already part of the debate. i'm not going to give you what would 10 pages of written material just because you requested it. you have to earn a privilege like that.

 

[Grenbyron]

So, the question I'm trying to ask: Does the means, no matter how cruel, justify the outcome if it's for the greater good?

The details are really important in this kind of question. Would I kill a child if it would spare millions? Sure, hand me a knife. Would I kill a child to spare an artist that would write the greatest novel the world would ever see? No, he can go to hell and I will go read Dr. Seuss.

 

[Lukeje]

you've had your chances before and you wasted them. it's rarely i get frustrated, but when i do, i slam my gavel down.

if you want evolution, look at the discussion you have become part of.

I thought you said you weren't elitist? So I'm not 'good enough' to debate with now?

you're already part of the debate. i'm not going to give you what would 10 pages of written material just because you requested it. you have to earn a privilege like that.

Ah, I see.

 

[TheBluesader]

This is the 1st post in this topic that was at least halfway descent. (No offence to the people that posted later,)

Thank you, 167th Anomynous. It's about time more people started realizing my supreme brilliance, instead of just swearing at me in l33t and telling me to go back to my 'libary.'

I think your post is one of the better ones on this thread, too. Guess why.

 

[Anomynous 167]

This is the 1st post in this topic that was at least halfway descent. (No offence to the people that posted later,)

Thank you, 167th Anomynous. It's about time more people started realizing my supreme brilliance, instead of just swearing at me in l33t and telling me to go back to my 'libary.'

I think your post is one of the better ones on this thread, too. Guess why.

Chicken nuggets?

 

[TenthRegeneration]

So, the question I'm trying to ask: Does the means, no matter how cruel, justify the outcome if it's for the greater good?

The greater good! [/NWA from Hot Fuzz]

I would say no, the means never justify the greater good. Two things would have to exist for me to say otherwise: The greater good would have to be threatened to the point of extinction (SP?), and the 'means' would have to be so altering that it could be accomplished in one fell swoop, and not extended over several months or years. A good example of this would be the A-bombing of Japan.

 

[TheBluesader]

This is the 1st post in this topic that was at least halfway descent. (No offence to the people that posted later,)

Thank you, 167th Anomynous. It's about time more people started realizing my supreme brilliance, instead of just swearing at me in l33t and telling me to go back to my 'libary.'

I think your post is one of the better ones on this thread, too. Guess why.

Chicken nuggets?

What the hell else? Sheesh. And here I thought you were one of the smart ones.

Also, sometimes in the middle of the night, I sit up straight in bed and find myself asking, "Are you sure you cleaned up well enough that the cops won't ever find them?"

 

[Anomynous 167]

There goes my respect.