A plea to the Escapist community.

[Normalgamer]

Hello fellow Escapists, my name is Normalguy, and I'm here to complain about how some of you who are complaining.
Hello.
A few weeks ago, a show by the name of Jimquisition was created. This has been met with severe criticism regarding the format, style, and general point of the show.
Yes, yes it did.
What I mainly want to say, is that if a new show pops up and you dislike it, it's completely unnecessary to say how much you hate it, why everyone should hate it, why it shouldn't be on The Escapist etc.
Actually no, a new show needs feedback. This is how the fine people of the escapist know what shows to keep, drop, develop, so on. It also allows the creator to know what to change in order to please their audience.
If you dislike a show, state what it should improve on, and move along.
This is exactly what you just said should NOT be done... you said "it's completely unnecessary to say... why everyone should hate it, why it shouldn't be on the Escapist." It should not be on the Escapist or Everyone should hate it is a bit strong, but really it is just an overly dramatic version of I hate it because and I don't feel it fits in here because. People saying flat out "Everyone should hate it fullstop" or "It should not be on the Escapist fullstop" is non-constructive.
If the show is so terrible you are never going to watch again(And some of you feel that way about Jimquisition, that is perfectly fine and your personal preferance is not wrong in any shape or form!)then just do so, no need to leave in your post that you plan too, all your doing is causing more discontent among users and insulting the work entirely.
... and telling the Escapist staff very strongly that you dislike this addition to the video lineup, which they want to know because they are spending money on it. Noone wants to spend money on something intended to please their clients when that thing clearly does not please their clients.
All I'm asking, is if you truly dislike shows such as Jimquisiton, Game Dogs, etc. just use constructive criticism, instead of outright flaming the show.
While the first Jimquisition video copped a lot of flak, it also got a lot of constructive criticism. Many, many, many of the posts were "I didn't like this because..." or "You need to do/consider/replace/etc this..." And you know what? Clearly enough of this criticism was good, because much of it has been acted upon and the Jimquisition this week is far and away better than the first. And if you read the comments you will see the opinion does get noticeably better with each iteration.

Hello fellow Escapists, my name is Normalguy, and I'm here to complain about how some of you who are complaining.
Hello.
A few weeks ago, a show by the name of Jimquisition was created. This has been met with severe criticism regarding the format, style, and general point of the show.
Yes, yes it did.
What I mainly want to say, is that if a new show pops up and you dislike it, it's completely unnecessary to say how much you hate it, why everyone should hate it, why it shouldn't be on The Escapist etc.
Actually no, a new show needs feedback. This is how the fine people of the escapist know what shows to keep, drop, develop, so on. It also allows the creator to know what to change in order to please their audience.
If you dislike a show, state what it should improve on, and move along.
This is exactly what you just said should NOT be done... you said "it's completely unnecessary to say... why everyone should hate it, why it shouldn't be on the Escapist." It should not be on the Escapist or Everyone should hate it is a bit strong, but really it is just an overly dramatic version of I hate it because and I don't feel it fits in here because. People saying flat out "Everyone should hate it fullstop" or "It should not be on the Escapist fullstop" is non-constructive.
If the show is so terrible you are never going to watch again(And some of you feel that way about Jimquisition, that is perfectly fine and your personal preferance is not wrong in any shape or form!)then just do so, no need to leave in your post that you plan too, all your doing is causing more discontent among users and insulting the work entirely.
... and telling the Escapist staff very strongly that you dislike this addition to the video lineup, which they want to know because they are spending money on it. Noone wants to spend money on something intended to please their clients when that thing clearly does not please their clients.
All I'm asking, is if you truly dislike shows such as Jimquisiton, Game Dogs, etc. just use constructive criticism, instead of outright flaming the show.
While the first Jimquisition video copped a lot of flak, it also got a lot of constructive criticism. Many, many, many of the posts were "I didn't like this because..." or "You need to do/consider/replace/etc this..." And you know what? Clearly enough of this criticism was good, because much of it has been acted upon and the Jimquisition this week is far and away better than the first. And if you read the comments you will see the opinion does get noticeably better with each iteration.

Please never try to argue with that style again, it only picks apart someone's overall message, and most users if not all who use that style quickly shed it due to the resulting comments of annoyance. But, I will respond. A new show needs feedback yes, but but it can achieve that through constructive feedback, not "THIS GUY IS FAT AND STUPID." or something along those lines. You should offer ways to restructure a show, instead of tearing away at it's foundation.

 

[CommonSense1013]

the Escapist is the "Number one forum for intelligence and Maturity."

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA
that has got to be one of the funniest things I have heard in a long time. Bravo sir

 

[BonsaiK]

Hello fellow Escapists, my name is Normalguy, and I'm here to complain about how some of you who are complaining. A few weeks ago, a show by the name of Jimquisition was created. This has been met with severe criticism regarding the format, style, and general point of the show. What I mainly want to say, is that if a new show pops up and you dislike it, it's completely unnecessary to say how much you hate it, why everyone should hate it, why it shouldn't be on The Escapist etc. If you dislike a show, state what it should improve on, and move along. If the show is so terrible you are never going to watch again(And some of you feel that way about Jimquisition, that is perfectly fine and your personal preferance is not wrong in any shape or form!)then just do so, no need to leave in your post that you plan too, all your doing is causing more discontent among users and insulting the work entirely. All I'm asking, is if you truly dislike shows such as Jimquisiton, Game Dogs, etc. just use constructive criticism, instead of outright flaming the show.

I'll criticise something if I want, that's the whole point of having a comments section. I think Jimquisition is pretty awful, as was Game Dogs, I think both shows really aren't fixable and are/were/will always be bad, due to basic fundamental deficiencies that are not removable. Therefore true "constructive" criticism is pointless because there's nothing that I want the creators to "construct". However, I will happily elaborate on why I think the shows are bad in what I consider to be a helpful manner (and have done), i.e I certainly won't be rude about it or anything. Nor will I ever say that such shows should be removed because as much as I think that content is awful and the world would be better off at large without it, clearly some people do get something out of it so I think that's a good situation for them and it wouldn't be fair me for to take that from them, just like I didn't appreciate it when people kept saying we should remove I Hit It With My Axe from The Escapist, which I thought was a brilliant show (and I certainly appeared to be in the minority on that one). So yeah, live and let live, I get your point. Not sure why we need a new thread about this though, "don't be a dick" or words to that effect are in the forum rules after all.

 

[PhiMed]

Y'all are posting in a troll thread. Where's the discussion value in a thread where the OP is a long form of "quit bitching"?

OT: I kind of like the Jimquisition. I just don't understand why he feels the need to feint an accent. Also, who is he, and why is he suddenly important enough to be included in Extra Consideration What's he been on, a month and a half? I like his show, but I don't think it's reached the importance of Zero Punctuation or Extra credits.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Nonsense. The same "don't like it, well don't watch it" argument could apply to EVERY Internet reviewer or debater. They should take their own advice first. Oh? They want to have their say? People like Yahtzee and Moviebob feel they should have a chance to say something sucks, and then return to the subject later if they want to? Well SO DO WE. If Moviebob wants to take a bunch of videos to talk about Expendables, I should be able to post multiple times about Big Picture being a loose collection of bad ideas, strawman arguments and blatant trolling.

BonsaiK has it right. Content creators don't LIKE to hear their stuff is crap, but sometimes it is. When this is the case, negative feedback can be very helpful in letting them know how to reposition their content. Look at Critical Miss. That comic got a lot of flak at first for being unfunny. And it was. But now (perhaps as a result of simply having more content, but I think they took some complaints to heart) the show has a pretty okay body of work built up. It's not Stolen Pixels, but it's decent.

 

[SnowyGamester]

People are within their rights to criticize the show if they don't like it. I haven't watched it and simply assumed I wouldn't like it regardless, but since its getting so much negative attention that you need to make a thread to point out that its getting so much negative attention without any reason why it shouldn't, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it probably sucks.

 

[evilstonermonkey]

Please never try to argue with that style again, it only picks apart someone's overall message, and most users if not all who use that style quickly shed it due to the resulting comments of annoyance. But, I will respond. A new show needs feedback yes, but but it can achieve that through constructive feedback, not "THIS GUY IS FAT AND STUPID." or something along those lines. You should offer ways to restructure a show, instead of tearing away at it's foundation.

My humblest apologies, sensei. I merely felt it to be the easiest way to point out that seperate sentences of your well-thought out statement contradicted each other, while making my responses to individual points clearer by marking which particular point they were addressing. In all honesty I will continue to use this method when I feel it suits.

But moving on. When you say that it needs constructive feedback, I respond again (I refer you to my shameful previous post) with IT GOT CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK. As evidence of this statement, I refer you again to my previous post where I point out that much of the constructive feedback it recieved has been acted upon and the video has improved. If it had not been given this feedback, it would not have changed. And this is purely conjecture, but considering the reaction of the first week if it had not changed it would have a tiny number of views by this week and would mosty likely have been cut as a money sink.

In summary: yes, it got flamed. Yes, it could have been treated better. But it did get constructive feedback, and is much better for it.

 

[Canid117]

People *****. Tis the way of the world.

 

[ShadowKatt]

Hello fellow Escapists, my name is Normalguy, and I'm here to complain about how some of you who are complaining. A few weeks ago, a show by the name of Jimquisition was created. This has been met with severe criticism regarding the format, style, and general point of the show. What I mainly want to say, is that if a new show pops up and you dislike it, it's completely unnecessary to say how much you hate it, why everyone should hate it, why it shouldn't be on The Escapist etc. If you dislike a show, state what it should improve on, and move along. If the show is so terrible you are never going to watch again(And some of you feel that way about Jimquisition, that is perfectly fine and your personal preferance is not wrong in any shape or form!)then just do so, no need to leave in your post that you plan too, all your doing is causing more discontent among users and insulting the work entirely. All I'm asking, is if you truly dislike shows such as Jimquisiton, Game Dogs, etc. just use constructive criticism, instead of outright flaming the show.

Because the quiet ones get ignored, or haven't you learned that through history? We can "suggest" all we like all day long, but it's like a child. If I child(not yours) comes up and asks you something, you can ignore it, or you can pretend to care and not do anything. But the child will get louder until it gets the attention it wants. The internet is a child. People come to it as the quiet ones, and they leave it the loud, obnoxious ones that scream in your ear while you're trying to watch a movie in a theater or eat your dinner in a nice italian restaurant.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Alternately, if you don't like something, don' watch it.

This is not so much aimed at you, but rather, the idea of "Dl;dw" in general.

There are mainly two problems with this sort of argument, both focusing mainly on the hypocrisy of it, twisting and twirling around it like mad vultures flying around a rotten animal carcass.

The first flaw is quite basic: it can be applied to anyone, anywhere, on the slightest flinch, which is the first sign of a dumb phrase. To put it simply, if one tells you ?if you don?t like it, then don?t watch it? to a critical comment you wrote on somebody?s YouTube channel, then by only saying ?if you don?t like my comment, then don?t read it?, it all pretty much falls to pieces right there.

This is where the whole thing falls apart in the bad antics display that always infect the fanboy hive mind, this phrase is always considered to be ?the phrase? to be used if you want to sound smart, sassy, and just an overall master of comebacks?and it very well might be.

In short: It really makes no sense to demand somebody who just watched something from YouTube (which is actually public for a reason) NOT to say anything bad about it and to DEMMAND that they close the window and say nothing about it all.
HOW IS THAT EVEN SUPPOSED TO WORK IN THE FIRST PLACE? YouTube comments in the end aren?t there only to spew positive comments to whatever video there is since luckily for us, we?re not trapped in a world where everybody has the same taste. To demand not to say ANYTHING bad to ANYBODY is a human impossibility to the nth degree, since, if such thing was even possible we wouldn?t have YouTube reviewers to begin with.

If criticism is what you?re watching, then criticism is what you?ll receive all the time, not praise. That?s how the real world works, and that?s how it will always work: ?If I watch something something and don?t like it, I have all the reasons to point out why I didn?t like it.?

The standard trolls of the hive mind think of the argument as perfect and flawless, when they don?t see that their simple phrase can be used ad continuum thanks to the inherent flaw of it trying to be used to stop a comment which, in reality, is nothing more than a simple opinion piece, or a review even, and that?s what brings us to the second and perhaps most hurtful flaw:

You?re using the argument to protect A REVIEWER from receiving negative comments, when a reviewer actually watches stuff he doesn?t likes and rant about it endlessly to begin with (a.k.a: hypocrisy). This point is far easier to point out due to the natural INAPLIABILITY to the whole thing and how absurd the argument gets when it goes full circle and that you boil it down to one single thing:

Not everyone is going to like everything.

http://thebusystreet.com/2011/01/12/dont-like-it-dont-watch-it/

Tl;dr: That logic fails on the basic levels.

But back on topic: I was not impressed with Jim, and I left a post stating that I was not. I went into detail, posted, and left it at that. He makes a show and gets paid for it. He does not need anyone to "White Knight" for him.

Still, he did improve in my mind, so I am glad.

 

[sharpsheppard]

complaing about complaning this is a paradox

 

[BlindChance]

While concurring with those above (It's the Internet, you must be new here) and with the original poster (constructive criticism > flaming) I might point out that the most powerful weapon against net shows here on The Escapist is simple: Don't watch it. They can count the hits, and ultimately hits = eyeballs = advertising dollars.

I haven't watched a Jimquisition since the second one. The first one I felt was a decent point made badly, the second I found offensive. I didn't even offer constructive criticism; I didn't need to. I simply stopped watching.

And remember, complaining about something (in either way) may just pique others curiosity. Silence is a powerful argument.

(Or, y'know, what Subtefuge said. Can't believe I missed his post...)

 

[TilMorrow]

Well I think you should know why people were angry with GameDogs if you watched the last episode. It was mainly because the way they ended it was disgusting. Not in the sense that the content of the episode was disgusting but in the sense that they literally suggested by putting up the episode that "we can't be bothered to make this series anymore and have decided to end it with the killing of two characters and we don't really care what you think". Also Jimquisiton was mostly an egocentric rage show in the first two episodes but has become more sensible in the last two.

If you need real evidence of a show being critisized off the Escapist. Then take that Creature Captures monster thing which was a parody of Pokemon and Card games that started in Feburary or was it January? Anyway they are no longer showing episodes of that on the escapist due to a number of reasons. The humour was stale and generally was funny for a second, it used old jokes about the subjects it was parodying and the person who created the show didn't have episodes prepared in advance and had to resort to bad bloopers in an attempt to keep attractive.

 

[Skoosh]

(removed most)
All I'm asking, is if you truly dislike shows such as Jimquisiton, Game Dogs, etc. just use constructive criticism, instead of outright flaming the show.
While the first Jimquisition video copped a lot of flak, it also got a lot of constructive criticism. Many, many, many of the posts were "I didn't like this because..." or "You need to do/consider/replace/etc this..." And you know what? Clearly enough of this criticism was good, because much of it has been acted upon and the Jimquisition this week is far and away better than the first. And if you read the comments you will see the opinion does get noticeably better with each iteration.

Please never try to argue with that style again, it only picks apart someone's overall message, and most users if not all who use that style quickly shed it due to the resulting comments of annoyance. But, I will respond. A new show needs feedback yes, but but it can achieve that through constructive feedback, not "THIS GUY IS FAT AND STUPID." or something along those lines. You should offer ways to restructure a show, instead of tearing away at it's foundation.

I actually much prefer that style of response. It's easier to follow, the points follow each other better. Otherwise it's much too easy for people to ignore some points and focus on minor ones. Of course it picks apart someone's comment and message. That's the idea: respond to each point individually.

On topic, I rarely see comments on this site saying "THIS GUY IS FAT AND STUPID". Most everyone complaining about those shows said many reasons WHY they disliked it. They are also, in many people's opinion, beyond repair. The criticism isn't only for the show producers, but the Escapist so they know what to keep paying for and what isn't worth it.

 

[subtlefuge]

-snip-

I've always considered the "Don't like don't watch" argument to be flawed as a general rule. It tends to be used to justify some of the worst things on Youtube and Newgrounds. This is why people like Retsupurae are heroes of the internet. However, this is different, because rather than being an open forum with Sturgeon's Law, the Escapist filters out the worst shows in favor of quality entertainment. Since the Escapist tracks views, you are given a vote each week. If you choose to watch, comment, and create hype about the show with the intent of getting it pulled then you are taking 0 steps forward and 3 steps back from your goal.

Nobody is going to stop going to the Escapist because of Jimquisition. It's just not that bad, even for those who hate it. Right now, there's really no reason for the Escapist to drop it, with all the hundreds of thousand views and thousands of comments expressing a mixed reaction.

If you don't like it, don't watch it. It's not flawed argumentation, it's your only power in this situation.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Hello fellow Escapists, my name is Normalguy, and I'm here to complain about how some of you who are complaining. A few weeks ago, a show by the name of Jimquisition was created. This has been met with severe criticism regarding the format, style, and general point of the show. What I mainly want to say, is that if a new show pops up and you dislike it, it's completely unnecessary to say how much you hate it, why everyone should hate it, why it shouldn't be on The Escapist etc. If you dislike a show, state what it should improve on, and move along. If the show is so terrible you are never going to watch again(And some of you feel that way about Jimquisition, that is perfectly fine and your personal preferance is not wrong in any shape or form!)then just do so, no need to leave in your post that you plan too, all your doing is causing more discontent among users and insulting the work entirely. All I'm asking, is if you truly dislike shows such as Jimquisiton, Game Dogs, etc. just use constructive criticism, instead of outright flaming the show.

My constructive criticism for Jimquisition: take Jim out of it and it'll be just fine.

I think the real problem with Jimquisition is that people love to hate it. Since at least the sixties, maybe earlier, there have been people who brought in more viewers/listeners/readers who hated them than liked them. Publishers don't care why people come, they just care that they come. I suspect a lot of people are, like me, clicking on Jimquisition every week just to see whether he's as detestable as he was the week before. In this way, we're our own worst enemy.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

I'm not whining about the people whining, I'm asking them to get their act together if they still honestly believe the Escapist is the "Number one forum for intelligence and Maturity."

LOL! Anyone who says that this forum is intelligent and mature has been spending way too much time in 4chan.

 

[Aurgelmir]

Hello fellow Escapists, my name is Normalguy, and I'm here to complain about how some of you who are complaining. A few weeks ago, a show by the name of Jimquisition was created. This has been met with severe criticism regarding the format, style, and general point of the show. What I mainly want to say, is that if a new show pops up and you dislike it, it's completely unnecessary to say how much you hate it, why everyone should hate it, why it shouldn't be on The Escapist etc. If you dislike a show, state what it should improve on, and move along. If the show is so terrible you are never going to watch again(And some of you feel that way about Jimquisition, that is perfectly fine and your personal preferance is not wrong in any shape or form!)then just do so, no need to leave in your post that you plan too, all your doing is causing more discontent among users and insulting the work entirely. All I'm asking, is if you truly dislike shows such as Jimquisiton, Game Dogs, etc. just use constructive criticism, instead of outright flaming the show.

I agree to a certain degree. I am one of those that find Jimquisition a horrible show with no entertainment value, and have decided not to keep watching. Just as I have any other show I dont like on the escapist.

But that said, I also feel it is peoples right to state their honest opinion of the show. If you dislike a show why would you try and improve it? Why not have them change it with something better?

I have also seen a lot of constructive posts regarding Jimquisition which lay out a lot of good and valid reasons as to why the guy shouldn't be on the site.

I also noticed Jim is a part of Extra Consideration now... I'll wait and see how I like that, he wasn't to bad in this one...