A professional, objective, apolitical future for The Escapist...

[IceForce]

Does Morse just spring into existence the moment he starts writing for this site? If, I dunno, Chipman had jumped on social media and posted "LOL @ FAGGOTS" would it really MATTER how well behaved he was as a content creator? Do we just break our mind in two and hold two Chipmans inside it, at that point? The idiot on social media and the one calmly making content for the Escapist?

Didn't we? Bob was always pretty open about how much he hates certain groups (re: FPS fans, sports fans etc). I quess most just didn't notice because they felt the same way.

It should be pointed out that Yahtzee is very similar in this aspect.
He's very open about his hatred of Modern Military Shooter fans, Nintendo fans, multiplayer gamers, etc. And yet people love him.

I assume it's because people agree with him.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Didn't we? Bob was always pretty open about how much he hates certain groups (re: FPS fans, sports fans etc). I quess most just didn't notice because they felt the same way.

I didn't notice because I don't follow Twitter and I've never consumed any of Bob's content. He could have hated me specifically by name and I would've remained blissfully unaware.

Sure it's a part of your image, it's a question of whether or not your image should be taken into account regarding the services you provide.

The content creators are the public face of the website. I'm not suggesting they fire the man, I assume they knew his schtick and it was why they hired him in the first place. I'm just baffled by the suggestion that we "judge" a person solely by their contributions in one space, when they use social media as a pulpit.

Let's say I DID watch or read Bob's stuff. Let's say I liked it. Let's say someone later introduced me to Bob's social media, where Bob acted like a gigantic tit. I could not then continue to watch/read Bob's content without also keeping in mind what a gigantic tit he was.

Likewise, any transgendered member of this community looking to consume Morse's content is going to remember what he thinks of them. It won't be struck from their mind because he makes it through a gaming article without being explicitly transphobic in his text, he already managed that elsewhere.

 

[Jake Martinez]

Say a person was incredibly racist, and I'm talking full blown "they're less than human" racism, and says as much on say twitter. But when said person goes to work, they're completely professional, they are friendly and respectful to all other employees/customers regardless of their ethnicity, even more so than other employees that aren't racist. Would it still be ok to fire them?

FUCKING OF COURSE IT WOULD. Put him on a rocket to the sun while you're at it. What kind of moral blindspots do you have that allows you to ignore that if they are efficient and polite?

Generally speaking, people actually have to do something before you can claim that they have a moral failing. Holding an unpopular opinion isn't one of those things.

I see you ranting a lot, but I've yet to see you demonstrate that this fellow has actually done anything to deliberately harm anything than the "feelings" of some people who for some unknown reason decided they want to read his tweets.

On the surface here, you might actually want to be somewhat introspective about what's actually a moral failing and how people act upon them.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Sure it's a part of your image, it's a question of whether or not your image should be taken into account regarding the services you provide.

Take your boss/employee example above. Say a person was incredibly racist, and I'm talking full blown "they're less than human" racism, and says as much on say twitter. But when said person goes to work, they're completely professional, they are friendly and respectful to all other employees/customers regardless of their ethnicity, even more so than other employees that aren't racist. Would it still be ok to fire them?

What about it if was about religion? Say the employee was a follower of Anton LaVey's writings. Would it still be ok?

It depends, if this hypothetical person's job is to sit in some cubicle and type up reports, then no, no it does not matter. If this person is, say, a news anchor, and their views would be enough that a financially significant portion of the viewers end up boycotting the show because of their involvement, then yes it does matter.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Does Morse just spring into existence the moment he starts writing for this site? If, I dunno, Chipman had jumped on social media and posted "LOL @ FAGGOTS" would it really MATTER how well behaved he was as a content creator? Do we just break our mind in two and hold two Chipmans inside it, at that point? The idiot on social media and the one calmly making content for the Escapist?

Didn't we? Bob was always pretty open about how much he hates certain groups (re: FPS fans, sports fans etc). I quess most just didn't notice because they felt the same way.

It should be pointed out that Yahtzee is very similar in this aspect.
He's very open about his hatred of Modern Military Shooter fans, Nintendo fans, multiplayer gamers, etc. And yet people love him.

I assume it's because people agree with him.

I don't recall Yahtzee ever saying he hates the fans of those genres, but instead the games them selves. Also most things Yahtzee says are for comedic effect, or out of exasperation for repetition of mistakes and things that annoy him.

Morse is pretty adamant on his political views and isn't making jokes here. That's a huge difference.

The same goes for Chipman he was showing some obvious contempt for people, specificity his fans in some regards. If that got him fired then, then that's that.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

It should be pointed out that Yahtzee is very similar in this aspect.
He's very open about his hatred of Modern Military Shooter fans, Nintendo fans, multiplayer gamers, etc. And yet people love him.

I assume it's because people agree with him.

Or, alternatively, it's because he's not an insufferable douche about it.

A jokey "Fuck those guys, amirite!?" is received one whole hell of a lot better than watching someone morosely pull out their well worn soap box to fling heart-felt hatred. Sure, the jokey person may genuinely dislike the people/things he's poking at, but do I really have to explain the difference here?

 

[Vault101]

[snip.

you seem to be operating on [i/]"its not actual -ism unless its KKK robe wearing hate spouting levels"[/i] logic...that is incorrect

he DOES dislike trans people..he fucking mocked them, if that isn't dislike I don't know what is...its transphobia plain and simple, I don't see how this isn't getting through

I don't get "hate" in what he says. His posts are not stepping on anyone's throat and his opinions are not the cause of the plight of various marginalized groups. Your presumption of his motivation though I have to call into question, as I didn't get that off the tweets there.

oh so total disregard and disrespect isn't enough? is has to be something as outright as "I want all of them to die" so no one gets confused? you ain't gonna see that 99% of the time

what you WILL see is mocking the words people use in regards to their indentitys
what you WILL see is condecening "oh you just have problems, youre experience isn't real"
what you WILL see is "SEX MEANS X CHROMOZOMES AND Y CHROMOZOMES FULL STOP"

that trans girl who died a few months back...her parents never told her to kill herself..they probably never said trans people deserved to die or laid a hand on her in violence...what they DID do was dismiss and (because she was under their control) deny her identiy, you know....the kind of thing this Jerk and majority of society do to trans-people

someone who says racist/homophobic/sexist things probably doens't *think* they hate x group if you asked them, but their still perpetrating the same harmful attitudes, the same bullshit

opinions are not like taste in music...sometimes theyre just shitty and they shouldn'y be defended on the assumptions its "just a subjective thing"

 

[IceForce]

Say a person was incredibly racist, and I'm talking full blown "they're less than human" racism, and says as much on say twitter. But when said person goes to work, they're completely professional, they are friendly and respectful to all other employees/customers regardless of their ethnicity, even more so than other employees that aren't racist. Would it still be ok to fire them?

FUCKING OF COURSE IT WOULD. Put him on a rocket to the sun while you're at it. What kind of moral blindspots do you have that allows you to ignore that if they are efficient and polite?

Generally speaking, people actually have to do something before you can claim that they have a moral failing. Holding an unpopular opinion isn't one of those things.

Not necessarily. Merely holding an unpopular or objectionable opinion is plenty enough for people to demand your head, if you're the public face of a company.

Case in point:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.846193-OKCupid-Asks-Firefox-Users-To-Support-LGBT-Rights-Switch-Browsers
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.846451-Mozilla-CEO-Brendan-Eich-Steps-Down

Essentially, it becomes a PR nightmare, and is something that most companies try to avoid like the plague.

Not the Escapist though, apparently.

 

[wulf3n]

I'm just baffled by the suggestion that we "judge" a person solely by their contributions in one space, when they use social media as a pulpit.

It's not so much about judging a person in two isolated spaces as much as it is judging the content separate from the content creator.

Let's say I DID watch or read Bob's stuff. Let's say I liked it. Let's say someone later introduced me to Bob's social media, where Bob acted like a gigantic tit. I could not then continue to watch/read Bob's content without also keeping in mind what a gigantic tit he was.

But why? [legitimate question]

If the persons questionable opinions aren't filtering through into the content of theirs you consume then the content itself is still fine? Does it retroactively alter their previous work created before they started saying questionable things?

It depends, if this hypothetical person's job is to sit in some cubicle and type up reports, then no, no it does not matter. If this person is, say, a news anchor, and their views would be enough that a financially significant portion of the views end up boycotting the show because of their involvement, then yes it does matter.

That's not necessarily them being fired for their opinion but rather their ability to bring in an audience, though it's still potentially bad. I mean it looks pretty black and white for this scenario but what if the news anchor was promoting equal rights which resulted financially significant portion of the viewers end up boycotting the show because of their involvement?

 

[NortherWolf]

Wow, this site has really turned to shit, with the people it hire. Hey management, protip: Go to Stormfront and hire some content contributors, I'm sure they'll be perfectly suited for this new Escapist.
Westboro Baptist Church might also want to help you guys.

 

[Jake Martinez]

[snip.

you seem to be operating on [i/]"its not actual -ism unless its KKK robe wearing hate spouting levels"[/i] logic...that is incorrect

he DOES dislike trans people..he fucking mocked them, if that isn't dislike I don't know what is...its transphobia plain and simple, I don't see how this isn't getting through

I don't get "hate" in what he says. His posts are not stepping on anyone's throat and his opinions are not the cause of the plight of various marginalized groups. Your presumption of his motivation though I have to call into question, as I didn't get that off the tweets there.

oh so total disregard and disrespect isn't enough? is has to be something as outright as "I want all of them to die" so no one gets confused? you ain't gonna see that 99% of the time

what you WILL see is mocking the words people use in regards to their indentitys
what you WILL see is condecening "oh you just have problems, youre experience isn't real"
what you WILL see is "SEX MEANS X CHROMOZOMES AND Y CHROMOZOMES FULL STOP"

that trans girl who died a few months back...her parents never told her to kill herself..they probably never said trans people deserved to die or laid a hand on her in violence...what they DID do was dismiss and (because she was under their control) deny her identiy, you know....the kind of thing this Jerk and majority of society do to trans-people

someone who says racist/homophobic/sexist things probably doens't *think* they hate x group if you asked them, but their still perpetrating the same harmful attitudes, the same bullshit

opinions are not like taste in music...sometimes theyre just shitty and they shouldn'y be defended on the assumptions its "just a subjective thing"

It constantly amazes me how people who are purported to be overfilling with empathy can take such extreme liberties with the intimate knowledge of a families dynamics and exploit the loss of their daughter in order to make a fairly unimportant political point. If you can even call it a "political point", it seems more like - "Don't hurt anyones feelings because then they might kill themselves" - which while probably true, isn't particularly good advice considering how many potentially "life ending" situations we'd all get into every day.

Also, conflating a couple of obtuse tweets by Brandon to this families tragedy and their daughters suicide just looks... well, opportunistic on the surface and frankly, as if you are so desperate to win an argument by emotional appeal that you're happy to relish in someoneelses misfortune, including the death of this girl. After all, it was her suicide that allowed you to make such an emotional appeal in the first place.

 

[Phasmal]

I've been wary of this whole `no more politics thing` - seeing as you kind of can't do that.

Spoiler: No politics huh

And now, well, now I'm just sad.
I'd like to say that I'm just gonna 100% judge on what this person puts out on the Escapist, but I'm already not interested.
Because I don't think that just ignoring someone's bigotry makes it okay and I'm not particularly interested in laughing with someone who is transphobic.
I'm aware I'm probably not phrasing this well and my throats probably gonna get jumped down (please don't I have a sore throat already, I'm sick).

Oh well. Hopefully the other content creator coming will bring something good to the site. Not heard anything about them before.

I'm also going to second a request for the Escapist to actually comment on this. Normally when we get new staff they're very open about it but we've not really heard anything, nor was there any response to Bob going either. It's quite weird.

 

[Foehunter82]

OT: wow that guy seems like a bigoted jerk...

uh..who is this guy anyway?

, one of his tweets I linked had that example and he picked one of the worst options, if it wasn't already the worst.

[i/]"well....shit"[/i]
-The Inquisitor

I'm both Christian and I believe in evolution. The two are not mutually exclusive. The two extremes (believers AND non-believers) are guilty of the same thing. It results from the fact that both sides believe in the absolute "rightness" of their beliefs to the exclusion of any middle ground. Also, for the record, my beliefs are my own, and I could very easily be wrong about my beliefs, but the assumption by both sides that they're absolutely right without considering other possibilities is a failing.

I'm going to have to "sort-of" disagree here, there is no "middle-ground" in the debate between Creationism [footnote/]creationism...not christianity[/footnote] and Evolution, the closest was Intelligent Design which was basically pseudo science

We'll agree to disagree, then. I do, however, think you're falling into the same trap as those picking sides in that debate.

snip

I apologize if I misunderstood you. I do agree with you, though.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

It depends, if this hypothetical person's job is to sit in some cubicle and type up reports, then no, no it does not matter. If this person is, say, a news anchor, and their views would be enough that a financially significant portion of the views end up boycotting the show because of their involvement, then yes it does matter.

That's not necessarily them being fired for their opinion but rather their ability to bring in an audience, though it's still potentially bad. I mean it looks pretty black and white for this scenario but what if the news anchor was promoting equal rights which resulted financially significant portion of the viewers end up boycotting the show because of their involvement?

Then they would be fired, and presumably they shouldn't have been working for that particular company in the first place if their views are completely different and shunned by the audience.

This isn't really a matter of social justice, but more to do with employer/employee rights and the politics surrounding how much power each should have.

Either way, I'm not against this guy working here. But let's be honest, this site does have a significant left-wing bent. this guy kind of sticks out here, and his presence is already causing drama before he has even arrived.

Still, I'm more interested in what kind of content he plans to bring than his personal philosophy.

 

[mecegirl]

Does Morse just spring into existence the moment he starts writing for this site? If, I dunno, Chipman had jumped on social media and posted "LOL @ FAGGOTS" would it really MATTER how well behaved he was as a content creator? Do we just break our mind in two and hold two Chipmans inside it, at that point? The idiot on social media and the one calmly making content for the Escapist?

Didn't we? Bob was always pretty open about how much he hates certain groups (re: FPS fans, sports fans etc). I quess most just didn't notice because they felt the same way.

It should be pointed out that Yahtzee is very similar in this aspect.
He's very open about his hatred of Modern Military Shooter fans, Nintendo fans, multiplayer gamers, etc. And yet people love him.

I assume it's because people agree with him.

Is that even the same thing? Like, is it in the same ballpark? I don't know if I'd use the word hate for Bob and Yahtzee's feelings of fans of certain media.

There are also the real world issues to worry about. FPS, or Nintendo fans don't deal with the same sorta social backlash as LBGT individuals do. It's not that folks don't notice, it's that their words amount to cross fandom sniping. Yeah its not the most mature thing to do, but comparing it the trans or homophobia is a bit much.

And either way we are sorta putting the cart before the horse. Both Bob and Yahtzee created their own gaming/geeky media befre forming contracts with the Escapist. What has this guy done that is related to geeky media? Does he have a blog where he posts his own reviews like Yahtzee did. Did he create his own videos like Bob did? If so someone should post a link, cuz right now there just isn't much else to talk about as it concerns this guy but his politics and his tweets.

 

[Jake Martinez]

I've been wary of this whole `no more politics thing` - seeing as you kind of can't do that.

Spoiler: No politics huh

And now, well, now I'm just sad.
I'd like to say that I'm just gonna 100% judge on what this person puts out on the Escapist, but I'm already not interested.
Because I don't think that just ignoring someone's bigotry makes it okay and I'm not particularly interested in laughing with someone who is transphobic.
I'm aware I'm probably not phrasing this well and my throats probably gonna get jumped down (please don't I have a sore throat already, I'm sick).

Oh well. Hopefully the other content creator coming will bring something good to the site. Not heard anything about them before.

I'm also going to second a request for the Escapist to actually comment on this. Normally when we get new staff they're very open about it but we've not really heard anything, nor was there any response to Bob going either. It's quite weird.

I have to say, I think this is a pretty absurd position to take. If you, or anyone probably, uses social media these days, I'm certain someone can find something you posted, wrote, tweeted, whatever, that many people could blow out of proportion like what's happening now.

For instance, you used the word "bigotry" without actually demonstrating (so far no one has really demonstrated this) that Brandon is actually a bigot at all. However, this is enough for you to suggest that the Escapist should comment?

Comment what exactly? That Brandon's opinions are his own? (Obviously).

Frankly, I'm really quite annoyed at "callout culture" and slacktivism. It's pointless and accomplishes nothing other than making it's participants feel morally superior over ultimately trivial matters. Pretty much everyone in this thread who has vociferously complained about this appointment has failed to do anything other than demonstrate the Brandon has hurt their feelings (or, potentially hurt the feelings of others by proxy). Even then it's a maybe because not everyone is going to interpret a couple of tweets the same way.

I really do not understand what drives "callout culture". I don't get it. I don't know why people want to partake in it. I don't understand what they get from it really. And I don't understand why they do it at all. It seems like such a pointless and useless activity to be perpetually outraged at other people having ideas you don't like (and daring to speak about them). I don't see any sort of moral imperative on anyones behalf to do this, we already have laws on the books about using speech to incite violence and that my friends is an actual crime and worthy of speaking out against.

A couple of stupid tweets, is not.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

[snip.

you seem to be operating on [i/]"its not actual -ism unless its KKK robe wearing hate spouting levels"[/i] logic...that is incorrect

he DOES dislike trans people..he fucking mocked them, if that isn't dislike I don't know what is...its transphobia plain and simple, I don't see how this isn't getting through

I don't get "hate" in what he says. His posts are not stepping on anyone's throat and his opinions are not the cause of the plight of various marginalized groups. Your presumption of his motivation though I have to call into question, as I didn't get that off the tweets there.

oh so total disregard and disrespect isn't enough? is has to be something as outright as "I want all of them to die" so no one gets confused? you ain't gonna see that 99% of the time

what you WILL see is mocking the words people use in regards to their indentitys
what you WILL see is condecening "oh you just have problems, youre experience isn't real"
what you WILL see is "SEX MEANS X CHROMOZOMES AND Y CHROMOZOMES FULL STOP"

that trans girl who died a few months back...her parents never told her to kill herself..they probably never said trans people deserved to die or laid a hand on her in violence...what they DID do was dismiss and (because she was under their control) deny her identiy, you know....the kind of thing this Jerk and majority of society do to trans-people

someone who says racist/homophobic/sexist things probably doens't *think* they hate x group if you asked them, but their still perpetrating the same harmful attitudes, the same bullshit

opinions are not like taste in music...sometimes theyre just shitty and they shouldn'y be defended on the assumptions its "just a subjective thing"

It constantly amazes me how people who are purported to be overfilling with empathy can take such extreme liberties with the intimate knowledge of a families dynamics and exploit the loss of their daughter in order to make a fairly unimportant political point. If you can even call it a "political point", it seems more like - "Don't hurt anyones feelings because then they might kill themselves" - which while probably true, isn't particularly good advice considering how many potentially "life ending" situations we'd all get into every day.

Also, conflating a couple of obtuse tweets by Brandon to this families tragedy and their daughters suicide just looks... well, opportunistic on the surface and frankly, as if you are so desperate to win an argument by emotional appeal that you're happy to relish in someoneelses misfortune, including the death of this girl. After all, it was her suicide that allowed you to make such an emotional appeal in the first place.

That's an extremely jaded way to look at it. It was an example. One thing Vault 101 is 100% correct on is that transgender suicides are shockingly high, and almost always linked to transphobia.

 

[wulf3n]

Then they would be fired, and presumably they shouldn't have been working for that particular company in the first place if their views are completely different and shunned by the audience.

This isn't really a matter of social justice, but more to do with employer/employee rights and the politics surrounding how much power each should have.

Either way, I'm not against this guy working here. But let's be honest, this site does have a significant left-wing bent. this guy kind of sticks out here, and his presence is already causing drama before he has even arrived.

Still, I'm more interested in what kind of content he plans to bring than his personal philosophy.

Fair enough. Personally I think it's a problem with the audience more than it is with the Employee/Employer.