A question about Elitism as a concept.

[Crunchy English]

Now, I think I understand Elitism. Elitism is believing your better than someone else based on shaky or perhaps non-existent logic. For instance, "I'm too cool to do X, because I said so."

But something that comes up a lot, especially in politics is that "intellectuals" are "Elitist".

Is that not the scariest damn thing you ever heard? I'm not sure what the generally accepted definition for "intellectual" is, but I always thought it just meant someone who prized intelligence and mental capabilities. If that's elitist, we're all going to die in a fire.

I will grant you many things about intellectuals, we tend to be pretentious, a lot of people who claim to be intellectuals aren't and most of us are boring at parties.

But to claim it is "Elitist" to prize intelligence and to put time and effort into acquiring knowledge: how backwards is that?

Also, don't mean to stir up politics. Wrong board for that. Just wanted to have the disconnect explained to me.

 

[Legion]

It isn't about intelligent people being elitist by default, it's about so called intellectuals acting superior and forming a little group around themselves where they can judge other people.

For example where you get PC experts who think their word is law when it comes to PC set-ups and what operating systems are the best.

 

[RebelRising]

Many Populists and Nazis carried this same perception. Hitler despised academics, probably stemming from his own deep-set inadequacies from deliberately failing his studies as a kid; he espoused charisma, power, and racial pride over intelligence. Much of the Tea Party dismiss anyone with a Harvard education as too smart for their own good and out-of-touch with the needs of the all-American blue-collar workers.

It's basically a demographic strain of Napoleon Complex.

 

[Crunchy English]

It isn't about intelligent people being elitist by default, it's about so called intellectuals acting superior and forming a little group around themselves where they can judge other people.

For example where you get PC experts who think their word is law when it comes to PC set-ups and what operating systems are the best.

Right... and the PC guys would be elitist. But isn't intellectuals insulating themselves together how awesome stuff happens? Think Tanks and what not? Is the judgment part the offensive bit? I mean, isn't half the reason anyone gets a degree to take an immense amount of pride in it? Is there a way to do that without appearing smug?

 

[Sir Kemper]

It seems if you want an expert opinion on Elitism you should visit a few other forums and ask about The Escapist.


Seems to them we're the biggest bunch of Elitst on the internet.


Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go read "War and Peace" and laugh at the poor in my mansion, Cheerio.

 

[alxhrmn]

Anyone who calls themselves an intellectual deserves to be qualified as an elitist.

 

[SimuLord]

Anyone who claims to be a populist is usually exactly the opposite---which is to say, an elitist.

 

[NeutralDrow]

It seems if you want an expert opinion on Elitism you should visit a few other boards and ask about The Escapist.


Seems to them we're the biggest bunch of Elitists on the internet.

Oh, good, I'm not the only one who saw that. Caught me a bit off-guard when that opinion came up in TV Tropes and Something Awful (although SA also called us boring...and then posted screenshots of one of my reviews, the considerate bastards!).

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go read "War and Peace" and laugh at the poor in my mansion, Cheerio.

*<url=http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6647/bubblepipe.jpg>grabs pipe*

Indeed.

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

Now, I think I understand Elitism. Elitism is believing your better than someone else based on shaky or perhaps non-existent logic. For instance, "I'm too cool to do X, because I said so."

But something that comes up a lot, especially in politics is that "intellectuals" are "Elitist".

Is that not the scariest damn thing you ever heard? I'm not sure what the generally accepted definition for "intellectual" is, but I always thought it just meant someone who prized intelligence and mental capabilities. If that's elitist, we're all going to die in a fire.

I will grant you many things about intellectuals, we tend to be pretentious, a lot of people who claim to be intellectuals aren't and most of us are boring at parties.

But to claim it is "Elitist" to prize intelligence and to put time and effort into acquiring knowledge: how backwards is that?

Also, don't mean to stir up politics. Wrong board for that. Just wanted to have the disconnect explained to me.

Elitism is all about flaunting one's superiority. When people refer to "intellectual elites" in politics, they are implying that these people are distant from the "normal" population. The suggestion is that these elites think that their ideas and policies are superior by virtue of their fancy schmancy college degrees, for which they are accused of being "out of touch" with the masses.

Elitism is an attitude-- not all intellectuals act like elitists. The antithesis of the intellectual elite, I suppose, is the street-wise everyman.

 

[Sewblon]

Many Populists and Nazis carried this same perception. Hitler despised academics, probably stemming from his own deep-set inadequacies from deliberately failing his studies as a kid; he espoused charisma, power, and racial pride over intelligence. Much of the Tea Party dismiss anyone with a Harvard education as too smart for their own good and out-of-touch with the needs of the all-American blue-collar workers.

It's basically a demographic strain of Napoleon Complex.

Hitler deliberately failed his own studies? I don't know if he ever made that claim, but if he did maybe he failed unintentionally and was just trying to cover it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_Hitler#Childhood If Wikipedia is telling the truth, he found school easy until his brother died which caused him to develop a bad attitude, and he was only deliberately failing technical school in hopes that his father would let him study art.

 

[Sir Kemper]

It seems if you want an expert opinion on Elitism you should visit a few other boards and ask about The Escapist.


Seems to them we're the biggest bunch of Elitists on the internet.

Oh, good, I'm not the only one who saw that. Caught me a bit off-guard when that opinion came up in TV Tropes and Something Awful (although SA also called us boring...and then posted screenshots of one of my reviews, the considerate bastards!).

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go read "War and Peace" and laugh at the poor in my mansion, Cheerio.

*<url=http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6647/bubblepipe.jpg>grabs pipe*

Indeed.

Quite so, I've always found it amuseing, and rather, I'd perfer to be called an Elitist.

Mainly becuase it makes me realize how uninformed people are about the actual community.

 

[Brandon237]

Some people have earned the title, others are just arrogant snobs who are really quite stupid and seek attention. You should also do this on a forum that happens to not be under the mighty reign of the escapist. You'll probably find many of them tend to see themselves as intellectuals of some sort.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Anti-intellectualism is as old as the world itself. There have always been people who are afraid of what they don't understand, afraid of being proven wrong, afraid that someone might have something to say you don't want to hear. Some people see science as a threat, critical thinkers as troublemakers, innovation as degradation. It's easy to just lump all of that together under the term "intellectuals", and think of them as faceless figures in ivory towers responsible for whatever it is you don't like. While there undoubtedly is elitism among some intellectuals, when put like that it's more often a vague accusation and an excuse to complain about things you don't know about.

Not all intellectuals are elitist, and not all elitists are intellectuals.

Right... and the PC guys would be elitist. But isn't intellectuals insulating themselves together how awesome stuff happens? Think Tanks and what not? Is the judgment part the offensive bit? I mean, isn't half the reason anyone gets a degree to take an immense amount of pride in it? Is there a way to do that without appearing smug?

Elitism isn't just being proud of what you are or what you can do, but to think you're somehow better or more worthy than the rest. Using the PC example, if someone has a lot of technical knowledge about PCs and is proud of that, that's not elitism. But when that person looks down on people without such extensive knowledge, and thinks less of them because of it, that is elitist. Being elitist means that you believe the group you belong to (in this example's case, PC enthusiasts) is somehow entitled to be treated better because of what they believe is some kind of superiority (intellectual, financial, moral, social, or whatever).

 

[Ironic Pirate]

It seems if you want an expert opinion on Elitism you should visit a few other forums and ask about The Escapist.


Seems to them we're the biggest bunch of Elitst on the internet.


Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go read "War and Peace" and laugh at the poor in my mansion, Cheerio.

Good show, chap!

Time for me to watch some french movies and practice my latin!

 

[Littaly]

Now, I think I understand Elitism. Elitism is believing your better than someone else based on shaky or perhaps non-existent logic. For instance, "I'm too cool to do X, because I said so."

To me elitist always meant something else.

To me elitism is when someone or some people who believes himself to be better than the rest (regardless of whether or not they are) shut everyone out of their doing.

So if I'm a gamer that only love critically acclaimed, deep, artsy titles á la Shadow of the Colossus and accuse people who enjoy the occasional CoD/Uncharted/whatever is popular right now of bad taste, that would make me a game elitist.

Similarly, If I was a movie elitist, I'd probably take pleasure in walking up to people who enjoyed Iron Man 2 and tell them "Pft! Go watch Citizen Kain, then we can start discussing good movies".

At least, that's what elitist means to me, I could be wrong.

 

[Legion]

It isn't about intelligent people being elitist by default, it's about so called intellectuals acting superior and forming a little group around themselves where they can judge other people.

For example where you get PC experts who think their word is law when it comes to PC set-ups and what operating systems are the best.

Is the judgment part the offensive bit? I mean, isn't half the reason anyone gets a degree to take an immense amount of pride in it? Is there a way to do that without appearing smug?

It is to the first question and of course there is to the next two. Being smart doesn't mean you have to look down on other people.

Terry Pratchett is an amazing author with a brilliant mind, but nobody has accused him of being elitist when it comes to Fantasy works. You don't see him criticising J.R.R. Tolkiens works or J.K. Rowlings do you? Telling them how to "Do it properly".

[small]Waits for somebody to bring up the Dr Who article.[/small]

Now, I think I understand Elitism. Elitism is believing your better than someone else based on shaky or perhaps non-existent logic. For instance, "I'm too cool to do X, because I said so."

To me elitist always meant something else.

To me elitism is when someone or some people who believes himself to be better than the rest (regardless of whether or not they are) shut everyone out of their doing.

So if I'm a gamer that only love critically acclaimed, deep, artsy titles á la Shadow of the Colossus and accuse people who enjoy the occasional CoD/Uncharted/whatever is popular right now of bad taste, that would make me a game elitist.

Similarly, If I was a movie elitist, I'd probably take pleasure in walking up to people who enjoyed Iron Man 2 and tell them "Pft! Go watch Citizen Kain, then we can start discussing good movies".

At least, that's what elitist means to me, I could be wrong.

Basically yes. The same way you get those who love classical music who look down on anybody who likes Metal, Rock, Hip Hop and so on.

 

[DeleteMe1112311]

I definitely agree with you. Any society in which it is bad to be intelligent or to attempt to be the best that you can be has its head stuck up its ass and is inherently doomed to become less and less intelligent. I don't believe in sacrificing compassion or the people around you to become the best you can be, but seeking knowledge and trying to make the best of your life should be what life is about.

Am I an elitist? Possibly. I like to think that I am intelligent, at least to some degree, and I seek out knowledge and self-betterment. If someone wants to call me an elitist for it, let them - with any luck they'll get their reproductive organs burned or caught in a bear trap or something of that sort and their stupidity won't continue on...or so I hope.

 

[Plurralbles]

This is what bothers me about american politics. The candidates of the republicans have to pretend(or is it, "pretend" ) to be completely fucking retarded to get votes and it makes me sick.

It bothers me that people have to dumb down their speech to appeal to the masses because the masses can't handle someone being genuinely better than them.

Am I an elitist? Possibly. I like to think that I am intelligent, at least to some degree, and I seek out knowledge and self-betterment. If someone wants to call me an elitist for it, let them - with any luck they'll get their reproductive organs burned or caught in a bear trap or something of that sort and their stupidity won't continue on...or so I hope.

... genetics have little to do with intelligence. Som of the dumbest people have teh smartest children and some of the smartest people have the dumbest children. It's all to do with how they are raised and each have their own limits.

 

[Mathurin]

Stated before but I agree, its about attitude, not intelligence.

Its not stated in the OP but its obvious that this is about politics.

The big problem comes when an intellectual thinks they have little more to learn, they are right and everyone else is just dumb.
This is somewhat parallel to how past (and some current) war propaganda paints opposing forces, one dimensional.
I think its because its easier to pretend your opponent is stupid than to dig deeper and figure out why they really disagree.

For the most part Im conservative, with exception, and I see tons of liberals acting as if conservatives are just redneck morons, its easier to dismiss them that way. On the flip side I dont think that the (american) liberal is dumb, I just think that they have forgotten how hard the world is, have gotten too soft, have forgotten that life will always be a struggle in some way, at least until we invent replicators.

It is especially interesting to see how the left likes to claim high intelligence is on their side by quoting degree holder membership figures, but I have been through college and I can see how difficult it would be for a die hard conservative to make it, I had to sit and listen to professors telling half truths, and memorize them for the test.

While they claim to be open minded, you would be surprised what an intellectual will do when you disagree

cant wait til someone calls here me a moron, btw, I have an MBA in international business, so I might be considered intellectual too, maybe not, but at very least not dumb.