A question for Americans

[Shynobee]

What's to say the government can't decide that films aren't protected as free speech. So my question for the day is, is your speech truly protected?

Well, in theory, whats supposed to happen when the current govt. makes a law that we don't like, we vote out that govt. and bring in a new one that will implement laws that we do like. So, in essence, we do have free speech.

 

[Bocaj2000]

We have more freedoms than we think.

The only problem is that money = free speech according to congress, so censorship is based on convenience at this point. Clerks was almost rated NC-17 (a death sentence for filmmakers) for language alone and they weren't even told what to change. So yeah, if you have money, your free speech is unlimited.

 

[Skeleton Jelly]

Because then people could walk around saying they want to kill this person and that person, and utter threats and spread hate and genocide propaganda and what not.

Just like what happends all the time anyway?

It's better that we could actually punish said people though. And having those boundaries in place stop some of the people from doing so.

No.
Cant really see how its better to "punish" people for saying stuff you dont like...
Besides, the threats, hate spreading and genocide propaganda will always be here.. Just turn on the tv or read the newspaper...

I would hate not having my freedom of speech. Even though i dont really talk that much, i appreciate being able to say what the fuck i want to when needed...

I'm not saying punish people who think this band sucks and such. I'm talking about threats and speech that promotes hate or instills fear into someone else. Everyone should be entitled to peace right? Or are you too edgy for that as well?

And sure, it's obviously going to be there for quite some time. But it's a lot more reasonable to do something or at least try to do something, than just let it happen. It's better to stop one hate speech, than none. So what you're saying is that just because we can't stop them all, it shouldn't really matter?

And so you're one of those people who likes saying these things? You can say whatever the fuck you want. I agree. But I'm saying when it comes to hate speech and threats, it's not alright.

Complete and utter free speech would make countries so much more worse.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. At all .

I do get what you are saying, actually quite well thank you, and i partly agree...
But i just cant see how removing freedom of speech because a couple of idiots cant shut up, is going to make this world a better place to live in...

You say remove free speech in such a way that it makes it sound like we should be oppressed to the point where we have to think about what we're going to vocalize. I'm just saying that if you're spreading such harsh words, that you shouldn't be protected by rights. What the hell is the use of rights if it can be used to infringe upon someone else's peace and peace of mind?

And a couple of idiots? Like you said, turn on the TV, it's not just a couple of idiots saying terrible things.

Everyone spreads harsh words when agry... be it at a demonstration, political rally or whatever... Should they have their rights removed? Hell, even politicians spead this mouthshit all the time. Thats their job... I would like to see you convince them to remove their own rights they made up themselves...

And logical people can control themselves when angry. I guess I might have worded it a bit wrong. I don't mean you can have rights, but if you say this or that, they're gone. I just believe that our rights should be reduced and restricted. And most politicians don't spread hate speeches. And I know what I say will go against MANY peoples beliefs. But they're just my beliefs and I sure as hell don't expect them to be appreciated by many and certainly not recognized.

 

[Nekros22]

If you believe America has free speech, perform this simple scientific test.

Stand in a shopping mall, get someone to film you.

Start speaking audibly to passers by, saying "I hate N***ers, and i hope everyone here agrees with me. N****ers will be the death of us all." and repeatedly say it over and over.



If you last beyond 10 minutes before security chucks you out, id be amazed. If you made it past 30, id be dumbfounded and shocked.

Make it a full hour and you can say the U.S has free speech.




The truth is - NO country has true "free speech". Americans just like chest thumping and using the claim its in their constitution as a means to belittle other countries and make themselves feel superior.

They dont have it, and the reason they dont have it is because in reality you dont want it. Because common sense and a civilized country require intelligent people to step in when nutbags, sickos, degenerates and low-life evil people would seek to abuse it.

Ok, let's just establish that you're mad. That's on the table.

You're one of those people who thinks a small minority of people represents an entire country. It doesn't work that way.

THE 1ST AMENDMENT PROTECTS YOU FROM INFRINGEMENTS ON YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH BY THE GOVERNMENT!

If you walk up to a black man, call him a "n****r" and inevitably be thought of as a lesser person (or punched in the face, more likely), segwaying from that to "AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE FREE SPEECH" is illogical. That man you just called the n-word is a person entitled to every right you have.

The reason us "chest-thumping" Americans claim the Freedom of Speech is in our Constitution is because it is. The government cannot stop you from believing, saying, thinking, and writing what you want to. Granted, some things you say, believe, think and write can get you into a lot of trouble, but everyone will know about it because everyone will be told about it, i.e., the media is free to report it.

except they can and do
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

You honestly think a "Free Speech Zone" is intended to limit public opinion? You really believe that in a public protest with possibly thousands of people screaming at each other, you can trust that everyone will behave themselves? You are honestly telling me that at a Nazi rally in the middle of a Jewish community or a KKK rally in the middle of a black community without some form of barricade or protection is a good idea?

Tell you what, tough guy. Don your white robes, light up a cross, and walk into your nearest minority neighborhood to test your freedom of speech. I guarantee it won't be the government trying to stop you.

does it not stop people from speaking freely to their government?

and i dont believe its a good idea but thats the point, free speech is over-rated

What in the hell are you talking about when you say "free speech is overrated?"

You have this "V for Vendetta" view of the government, you've watched "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" one too many times. What's going to be accomplished if I run up on stage, plant my feet on the ground, and shout in Barack Obama's face that he's a socialist weasel who's ruining this country? Nothing. You change the government by becoming involved in it, not shouting at it from the side lines.

I have never watched that, and i don't have that view at all. What im saying is americans hoot and holler about their amazing right to free speech when in actuality its not so much better than any of the developed world. And protest doesnt mean shouting at some1, i for one have done peaceful marches before placard held high. calm down bro ^^

You said that "Free Speech Zones" hinder a person's right to speak freely to their government, but a Free Speech Zone is only used at protests or similar events. Flip flopping on your position isn't helping you.

Americans "hoot and holler" about free speech because we, unlike other countries, appreciate it.

free speech isn't just vocal.
You exagerate something the rest of us just accept as a given.

We don't exaggerate anything (angry typing, lol). The "rest" of you seem to have a problem with Americans actually enjoying what we have. You act as if we don't accept it as a given. We know it's a given, that's why we're vocal about it. Freedom of speech is entirely vocal. Media outlets, magazines, political elections, all of it vocal. I don't think you understand what you're talking about.

 

[ryanxm]

with freedom come responsabie

so no your not suppost to publicly say son of a b-wait i cant say that on the forums...um go watch apocolypse lane episode two i think, its called "poker night" you'll get the idea

 

[Naeo]

Nominally we do, but you say the word "niggardly" (it's a real word, look it up if you don't know it) and, as a new York treasurer found out, the ignorant public will sooner hound you out of office and force your resignation before they pick up a dictionary.

That and we're such a conservative, freedom-hating country (no, seriously, we have almost always been farther behind in things like civil rights than any other developed/first-world nation) that we like a very narrow definition of what's "okay to say". Though I guess there's a certain irony in people having huge campaigns against "you shouldn't be allowed to say this".

 

[minarri]

The funny thing about free speech is the part where it's free speech to the extent it doesn't infringe on others' rights under the law. It's just unfortunate that many people misinterpret that to mean "I can say whatever I want."

 

[skywalkerlion]

You know what's funny? That we have assholes like the WBC that are protected by freedom of speech but fucking video games might not be. Idiots.

 

[GWarface]

Because then people could walk around saying they want to kill this person and that person, and utter threats and spread hate and genocide propaganda and what not.

Just like what happends all the time anyway?

It's better that we could actually punish said people though. And having those boundaries in place stop some of the people from doing so.

No.
Cant really see how its better to "punish" people for saying stuff you dont like...
Besides, the threats, hate spreading and genocide propaganda will always be here.. Just turn on the tv or read the newspaper...

I would hate not having my freedom of speech. Even though i dont really talk that much, i appreciate being able to say what the fuck i want to when needed...

I'm not saying punish people who think this band sucks and such. I'm talking about threats and speech that promotes hate or instills fear into someone else. Everyone should be entitled to peace right? Or are you too edgy for that as well?

And sure, it's obviously going to be there for quite some time. But it's a lot more reasonable to do something or at least try to do something, than just let it happen. It's better to stop one hate speech, than none. So what you're saying is that just because we can't stop them all, it shouldn't really matter?

And so you're one of those people who likes saying these things? You can say whatever the fuck you want. I agree. But I'm saying when it comes to hate speech and threats, it's not alright.

Complete and utter free speech would make countries so much more worse.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. At all .

I do get what you are saying, actually quite well thank you, and i partly agree...
But i just cant see how removing freedom of speech because a couple of idiots cant shut up, is going to make this world a better place to live in...

You say remove free speech in such a way that it makes it sound like we should be oppressed to the point where we have to think about what we're going to vocalize. I'm just saying that if you're spreading such harsh words, that you shouldn't be protected by rights. What the hell is the use of rights if it can be used to infringe upon someone else's peace and peace of mind?

And a couple of idiots? Like you said, turn on the TV, it's not just a couple of idiots saying terrible things.

Everyone spreads harsh words when agry... be it at a demonstration, political rally or whatever... Should they have their rights removed? Hell, even politicians spead this mouthshit all the time. Thats their job... I would like to see you convince them to remove their own rights they made up themselves...

And logical people can control themselves when angry. I guess I might have worded it a bit wrong. I don't mean you can have rights, but if you say this or that, they're gone. I just believe that our rights should be reduced and restricted. And most politicians don't spread hate speeches. And I know what I say will go against MANY peoples beliefs. But they're just my beliefs and I sure as hell don't expect them to be appreciated by many and certainly not recognized.

What things can you say and not say? Thats very interesting for me...

 

[BrownGaijin]

That man you just called the n-word is a person entitled to every right you have.

Shot response: Damn straight. Have a cookie.

Long response: First off I support the belief that everyone is endowed with unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness so long as you don't impede the same rights of others. So if someone comes up to me and shouts negative stereotypes just to prove a point, I am within my own rights to tell you to stop being an asshole (mind you I will be the better man and do it with civility). After all the root of freedom of speech is D-E-B-A-T-E.

Freedom is not licence for chaos.

OT: As for the initial question, there are always going to be people who are going to strip away our rights or perverse it for their own gain. That's the way it's was before we were born, that's the way it is right now, and that's the way it will be when we join our forefathers. When it comes to ANY sort of precious way of life we have to seek it, practice it, and defend it.

 

[Skeleton Jelly]

Because then people could walk around saying they want to kill this person and that person, and utter threats and spread hate and genocide propaganda and what not.

Just like what happends all the time anyway?

It's better that we could actually punish said people though. And having those boundaries in place stop some of the people from doing so.

No.
Cant really see how its better to "punish" people for saying stuff you dont like...
Besides, the threats, hate spreading and genocide propaganda will always be here.. Just turn on the tv or read the newspaper...

I would hate not having my freedom of speech. Even though i dont really talk that much, i appreciate being able to say what the fuck i want to when needed...

I'm not saying punish people who think this band sucks and such. I'm talking about threats and speech that promotes hate or instills fear into someone else. Everyone should be entitled to peace right? Or are you too edgy for that as well?

And sure, it's obviously going to be there for quite some time. But it's a lot more reasonable to do something or at least try to do something, than just let it happen. It's better to stop one hate speech, than none. So what you're saying is that just because we can't stop them all, it shouldn't really matter?

And so you're one of those people who likes saying these things? You can say whatever the fuck you want. I agree. But I'm saying when it comes to hate speech and threats, it's not alright.

Complete and utter free speech would make countries so much more worse.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. At all .

I do get what you are saying, actually quite well thank you, and i partly agree...
But i just cant see how removing freedom of speech because a couple of idiots cant shut up, is going to make this world a better place to live in...

You say remove free speech in such a way that it makes it sound like we should be oppressed to the point where we have to think about what we're going to vocalize. I'm just saying that if you're spreading such harsh words, that you shouldn't be protected by rights. What the hell is the use of rights if it can be used to infringe upon someone else's peace and peace of mind?

And a couple of idiots? Like you said, turn on the TV, it's not just a couple of idiots saying terrible things.

Everyone spreads harsh words when agry... be it at a demonstration, political rally or whatever... Should they have their rights removed? Hell, even politicians spead this mouthshit all the time. Thats their job... I would like to see you convince them to remove their own rights they made up themselves...

And logical people can control themselves when angry. I guess I might have worded it a bit wrong. I don't mean you can have rights, but if you say this or that, they're gone. I just believe that our rights should be reduced and restricted. And most politicians don't spread hate speeches. And I know what I say will go against MANY peoples beliefs. But they're just my beliefs and I sure as hell don't expect them to be appreciated by many and certainly not recognized.

What things can you say and not say? Thats very interesting for me...

Do you understand what I meant by saying that though? I don't think I made myself all too clear. What I don't mean is that you can have rights taken away from you. I just mean that our rights should be restricted. Like the right to say you hate this ethnicity, or this race or gender.

 

[Delusibeta]

Honestly? "Free speech" in it's purist form doesn't exist. Certainly, there's certain things you can't say (e.g. "I'm going to kill someone and here's how I'm going to do it..."). Besides, even if there was pure free speech, someone's going to take it too far in the eyes of the vast majority of the population (see: /b/).

 

[GWarface]

Because then people could walk around saying they want to kill this person and that person, and utter threats and spread hate and genocide propaganda and what not.

Just like what happends all the time anyway?

It's better that we could actually punish said people though. And having those boundaries in place stop some of the people from doing so.

No.
Cant really see how its better to "punish" people for saying stuff you dont like...
Besides, the threats, hate spreading and genocide propaganda will always be here.. Just turn on the tv or read the newspaper...

I would hate not having my freedom of speech. Even though i dont really talk that much, i appreciate being able to say what the fuck i want to when needed...

I'm not saying punish people who think this band sucks and such. I'm talking about threats and speech that promotes hate or instills fear into someone else. Everyone should be entitled to peace right? Or are you too edgy for that as well?

And sure, it's obviously going to be there for quite some time. But it's a lot more reasonable to do something or at least try to do something, than just let it happen. It's better to stop one hate speech, than none. So what you're saying is that just because we can't stop them all, it shouldn't really matter?

And so you're one of those people who likes saying these things? You can say whatever the fuck you want. I agree. But I'm saying when it comes to hate speech and threats, it's not alright.

Complete and utter free speech would make countries so much more worse.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. At all .

I do get what you are saying, actually quite well thank you, and i partly agree...
But i just cant see how removing freedom of speech because a couple of idiots cant shut up, is going to make this world a better place to live in...

You say remove free speech in such a way that it makes it sound like we should be oppressed to the point where we have to think about what we're going to vocalize. I'm just saying that if you're spreading such harsh words, that you shouldn't be protected by rights. What the hell is the use of rights if it can be used to infringe upon someone else's peace and peace of mind?

And a couple of idiots? Like you said, turn on the TV, it's not just a couple of idiots saying terrible things.

Everyone spreads harsh words when agry... be it at a demonstration, political rally or whatever... Should they have their rights removed? Hell, even politicians spead this mouthshit all the time. Thats their job... I would like to see you convince them to remove their own rights they made up themselves...

And logical people can control themselves when angry. I guess I might have worded it a bit wrong. I don't mean you can have rights, but if you say this or that, they're gone. I just believe that our rights should be reduced and restricted. And most politicians don't spread hate speeches. And I know what I say will go against MANY peoples beliefs. But they're just my beliefs and I sure as hell don't expect them to be appreciated by many and certainly not recognized.

What things can you say and not say? Thats very interesting for me...

Do you understand what I meant by saying that though? I don't think I made myself all too clear. What I don't mean is that you can have rights taken away from you. I just mean that our rights should be restricted. Like the right to say you hate this ethnicity, or this race or gender.

So you can say anything, exept that you dont like another race, ethnicity and propably sexuality?

 

[Dark Prophet]

There must be a balance between speaking your mind and keeping you from hurting others by doing so. And that balance is so damn fragile and hard to keep. Often it's tilted to the keeping you from speaking your mind side because there are so much fucking idiots who will run wild the moment the chains get any looser.

 

[Snake Plissken]

No, Americans do not have free speech. And when you enter a new public arena, speech becomes even more limited.

Here at the Escapist, for example, you are not allowed to say whatever you want. If anybody finds what you say offensive, it gets reported. After a review of the complaint and comment, restrictions are placed against the user who perpetrated the infraction. Certain speech is limited in certain circumstances.

The United States is no different, although inflammatory statements are dealt with far more leniently. Threats on the other hand, are dealt with more strictly. If I were to say "I'm going to rape your mom in the face" on any internet forum, it would be considered inflammatory slander that is not taken very seriously. If I were to say it to a co-worker or a classmate, for example, it would be dealt with far more seriously.

As long as nobody can hear you, everyone on the planet has free speech. As soon as you enter the public arena, free speech is lost.

 

[maturin]

Do you understand what I meant by saying that though? I don't think I made myself all too clear. What I don't mean is that you can have rights taken away from you. I just mean that our rights should be restricted. Like the right to say you hate this ethnicity, or this race or gender.

No one should be punished for speaking their mind, especially when repressing evil ideas does nothing to rebut or discredit them.

This idea holds true for American society, and is hopefully a line in the sand that we'll stick to.

Of course, we haven't had a war on our soil for 150 years, nor anything like what Europe's had. You folks over there don't have laws fruitlessly trying to beat back an idea so much as actual movements.

 

[Pebkac]

What's to say the government can't decide that films aren't protected as free speech. So my question for the day is, is your speech truly protected?

Well, in theory, whats supposed to happen when the current govt. makes a law that we don't like, we vote out that govt. and bring in a new one that will implement laws that we do like. So, in essence, we do have free speech.

That sounds more like the parliamentary system used in the UK, Canada, Australia, India, etc... Where if a government is losing support, their term can be ended early and a new election will be called.

In the US, that doesn't exist. The government stays in power until its term is done, and when it's time for a new election there's only one other party to vote for. Most people don't switch, and it usually doesn't make a difference since it takes an entire state to change. Both parties have their sets of bad bills anyway.

Although the supreme court can overrule bad bills... There's probably other judicial bodies that can do this too. (Parliamentary countries, and some other republics also have this; it's not unique to the United States)

 

[Skeleton Jelly]

Because then people could walk around saying they want to kill this person and that person, and utter threats and spread hate and genocide propaganda and what not.

Just like what happends all the time anyway?

It's better that we could actually punish said people though. And having those boundaries in place stop some of the people from doing so.

No.
Cant really see how its better to "punish" people for saying stuff you dont like...
Besides, the threats, hate spreading and genocide propaganda will always be here.. Just turn on the tv or read the newspaper...

I would hate not having my freedom of speech. Even though i dont really talk that much, i appreciate being able to say what the fuck i want to when needed...

I'm not saying punish people who think this band sucks and such. I'm talking about threats and speech that promotes hate or instills fear into someone else. Everyone should be entitled to peace right? Or are you too edgy for that as well?

And sure, it's obviously going to be there for quite some time. But it's a lot more reasonable to do something or at least try to do something, than just let it happen. It's better to stop one hate speech, than none. So what you're saying is that just because we can't stop them all, it shouldn't really matter?

And so you're one of those people who likes saying these things? You can say whatever the fuck you want. I agree. But I'm saying when it comes to hate speech and threats, it's not alright.

Complete and utter free speech would make countries so much more worse.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. At all .

I do get what you are saying, actually quite well thank you, and i partly agree...
But i just cant see how removing freedom of speech because a couple of idiots cant shut up, is going to make this world a better place to live in...

You say remove free speech in such a way that it makes it sound like we should be oppressed to the point where we have to think about what we're going to vocalize. I'm just saying that if you're spreading such harsh words, that you shouldn't be protected by rights. What the hell is the use of rights if it can be used to infringe upon someone else's peace and peace of mind?

And a couple of idiots? Like you said, turn on the TV, it's not just a couple of idiots saying terrible things.

Everyone spreads harsh words when agry... be it at a demonstration, political rally or whatever... Should they have their rights removed? Hell, even politicians spead this mouthshit all the time. Thats their job... I would like to see you convince them to remove their own rights they made up themselves...

And logical people can control themselves when angry. I guess I might have worded it a bit wrong. I don't mean you can have rights, but if you say this or that, they're gone. I just believe that our rights should be reduced and restricted. And most politicians don't spread hate speeches. And I know what I say will go against MANY peoples beliefs. But they're just my beliefs and I sure as hell don't expect them to be appreciated by many and certainly not recognized.

What things can you say and not say? Thats very interesting for me...

Do you understand what I meant by saying that though? I don't think I made myself all too clear. What I don't mean is that you can have rights taken away from you. I just mean that our rights should be restricted. Like the right to say you hate this ethnicity, or this race or gender.

So you can say anything, exept that you dont like another race, ethnicity and propably sexuality?

Hate speech, yes. And threats and such. But more in the sense that you think that said group should be below the other people and such. Opinions and preferences are fine, but they should stay at that.