A question for Americans

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MagicMouse

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Dec 31, 2009
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Yes we have free speech.

Unless you:

Slander
shout extreme obscenities in public
endanger the public (yelling "FIRE!" in a movie theater is a common example.)
live in California
 

Giest4life

The Saucepan Man
Feb 13, 2010
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SnootyEnglishman said:
It's supposed be but everyone is America is too sensitive and easily offended these days. So slowly it's going away in my opinion.
It was never there to begin with. There is a chronology of court cases starting from the inception of the constitution when the government restricted speech for one ethnic group, religion, or political affiliation. Our age is no different.
 

maturin

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Jul 20, 2010
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We have the worst school systems in the world
Really? Really?

And yes, the Supreme Court is chosen by the democratically elected President and confirmed by the directly-elected Congress, and that's how republicanism works. And no, they don't give a shit what the majority thinks because what the majority thinks has nothing to do with the LAW. And no it wasn't democratic or free when they didn't burn witches because back then we were part of the BRITISH EMPIRE.

The stupid in this thread is getting out of hand.
 

Thee Prisoner

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Apr 28, 2010
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A good example of the lack of free speech is Lenny Bruce a comedian in the 1950-1960's that was arrested for using "certain" words in his act.

If you get a chance watch the movie "Lenny" or a documentary on his life.
 

Sinclair Solutions

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Jul 22, 2010
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We are still trying to determine what can be restricted. The only thing that can truly not be protected in stuff considered "obscene," as was discussed in Extra Credits. That is determined by the Miller Test, also mentioned in that episode "Free Speech."

Also, I think you are making a mistake of what is illegal and what is frowned upon. There is a difference. Racist comments are not illegal by any means. But, if you say racist shit, people will most likely call you an asshole and not want to hang out with you.

Video Games will be undergoing review in the upcoming Supreme Court case. The Court will most likely say that video games can't be restricted, since it is an expression of an idea (which free speech protects).
 

slawson

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Nov 2, 2010
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They can't do too much at once, because we have guns which are the teeth of our rights. We do let them infringe to the level we will accept, which is a bit each generation.

I watch Saturday Night Live now and see that there are things done today that they could never put on TV in the 1970s, but I watched the first few seasons of SNL on DVD and they could never put some of that stuff on TV today. So how it plays out is anyone's guess at least as pop culture goes.
 

KingPiccolOwned

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Jan 12, 2009
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Vuljatar said:
The right to free speech and freedom of expression is guaranteed by the First Amendment. If the government decides to infringe upon these rights too much, well... then make use of the Second Amendment.
Indeed...
 

Cliff_m85

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Feb 6, 2009
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Random Name 4 said:
Just a question, do you really have free speech if the government decides what speech is protected or not? For instance, the government can decide that videogames aren't protected as free speech, and ban them. What's to say the government can't decide that films aren't protected as free speech. So my question for the day is, is your speech truly protected?
Yes, we really have free speech. There are incredibly small instances of the government outstepping its bounds in regards to free speech, but all in all we do have free speech.
 

INF1NIT3 D00M

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Aug 14, 2008
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Samwise137 said:
As compared with many places in the world, where you might be shot for even uttering a complaint about someone, yes we do indeed have free speech. Do we have free speech as per the dictionary definition? Absolutely not.
Random Name 4 said:
Samwise137 said:
As compared with many places in the world, where you might be shot for even uttering a complaint about someone, yes we do indeed have free speech. Do we have free speech as per the dictionary definition? Absolutely not.
So you have free-er speech?
I'd call it Free-ish speech. Honestly it doesnt really matter what you say over here as long as you're willing to accept the consequences of what you say. If I said I wanted to murder someone, the police could get a warrant to search me, based off of reasonable suspicion I brought on myself. Also, if that person died they could pull me in for questioning.
I got ninja'd on this point, but things like dissident speech about a war effort or the president are not protected under free speech, but that's just to promote stability.
 

Klopy

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Nov 30, 2009
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TL;DR

There are written exceptions in the Constitution. The exceptions to the first amendment are Defamation, Causing Panic, Fighting Words, Incitement to Crime, Sedition, and Obscenity.

/TL;DR



I bet someone else said this, but I don't wanna check. There are exceptions to the first amendment. The first amendment is freedom of religion (the establishment and exorcise of), speech, press, gather, and petition. Basically saying you can worship what you wish, say what you want, write what you want, hold meetings for what you want, and question what you want. However, there are exceptions to these...

Defamation, (libel and slander), means making someone seem bad. You can't go around and say that John across the street eats kittens to make him evil. It would be false or unjustified injury of the good reputation of his character!

Causing Panic is also an exception. You can't scream 'FIRE' in a movie theater. Its against the law. Its just like crying wolf. You can't do it.

Fighting words is an exception. If you go up to John across the street and insult his family, and John gets so mad as to beat you up for it, you are held accountable. You can't sue him for doing it, because what you said was fighting words.

Incitement to Crime is another. If you go up to a little kid and tell him to stab mommy, you're held accountable. The kid is too, but the one who had the idea moreso. Think about Charles Manson with this exception. He didn't do anything, but he was the main cause for his crime.

Sedition is another. Sedition is like getting a group of people together and trying to take over the government. The actual definition is any action, esp. in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

The last one is Obscenity. It is the hardest exception to understand. If you want to paint a naked person because the body is beautiful, then it is alright. If you want to paint it because 'Thems boobs are hot!', then you will be obscene and won't be protected by the first amendment for whatever crime involves the painting. The crime may be showing children or youth or something of the like...


LONG POST! Sorry.
 

Meander112

Spiritual Scientific Skeptic
Jan 26, 2010
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Klopy said:
TL;DR

There are written exceptions in the Constitution. The exceptions to the first amendment are Defamation, Causing Panic, Fighting Words, Incitement to Crime, Sedition, and Obscenity.

/TL;DR

...

LONG POST! Sorry.
It was long, but awesome post.
 

sh0tgunenclave

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Jan 26, 2010
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officially, yes. unofficially, kind of. all tv and radio stations have censors, that edit and remove "all offense content", meaning that you say what they want you to say, and if you don't, then you're silenced. other than that though, you can pretty much say whatever you want.
 

godofallu

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Jun 8, 2010
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There is this thing called the bill of rights, and the first amendment.

You see, nothing any lawmaker can do can contradict the bill of rights. It isn't possible to do the things you talk about, i think your misinformed. Did you mean Australia maybe? I know they don't have rights when it comes to gaming and other personal property.
 

Kiju

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Apr 20, 2009
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Yeah...yeah...free speech has gone away readily enough.

I believe it has gotten to the point of: "You can say whatever the hell you want. But if we don't like it, we'll arrest/shun/sue you."
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Sep 3, 2008
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Random Name 4 said:
Just a question, do you really have free speech if the government decides what speech is protected or not? For instance, the government can decide that videogames aren't protected as free speech, and ban them. What's to say the government can't decide that films aren't protected as free speech. So my question for the day is, is your speech truly protected?
First, a point: freedom in the context you describe is not freedom at all. What you describe is a "lack of consequence". There is no action without consequence in this world. I might say something that is free of legal consequence for example but it might bring physical harm to my person. (For example, I could go to the depths of an inner city neighborhood in LA and start spouting off racially charged obscenities. Such action is protected speech but I would, almost certainly, come to harm if I did so).

But, with respect to the question, this is not the first time a government has tried to limit speech in the US. It isn't even close to the Alien and Sedition act of 1798, that forbade, among other things, speaking out against a member of government. That such freedoms are infringed upon is expected, and it was because of this very expectation that the US governmental system is structured as it was (and, yes, I'm aware that there are plenty of complications, caveats and whatnot on this point). Yet, even the most liberal interpretation of free speech will find a limit. One can, for example, incite a panic with speech. Do you protect speech who's sole aim is to generate chaos and destruction? One can also spread information known to be false. Is a lie protected?

In a very general way, there is Freedom of Speech precisely because one can, without legal ramification, speak ill of the government or of a policy. Such freedom from consequence was all but unheard of at the founding of the Nation. But this freedom from legal consequence is extended far beyond simply criticizing the government: it includes any speech that does not, as a direct result, cause immeasurably more harm than good. Thus, I cannot tell a lie in the legal process without risking a trial of my own because doing so undermines the very idea of justice. I cannot incite a panic in a theater by shouting fire because only harm comes out of such a circumstance. Obscenity falls under this as well. A material is considered obscene if and only if these three conditions are met:

* Whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards", would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
* Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by applicable state law,
* Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.[3]
(<a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test>source).

Freedom, as described above, does not truly exist because there is always going to be a consequence. Most nations in the world apply a legal consequence to a wider variety of speech than the US does. If such perfect freedom is not attainable, can we say that a given nation has Freedom of Speech? Certainly not. But since that definition offers no useful distinction between a totalitarian dictatorship and a pure democracy, it is clearly not a useful definition. Thus we find that, for practical purposes, freedom of speech is approached as you lower the kinds of speech that have a legal consequence associated with them. At an arbitrary point (generally defined by the freedom to criticize those in power), a nation is considered to have free speech.

Of course, it must be noted that, since there is a consequence for any action, one is only limited in what they can do by physical laws and their own perception. The universe will not stop a man from speaking ill of the government in North Korea, but the brutal consequence of such a thing is almost certainly enough that he would no longer see it as being an option. Thus, you are free to try and do anything that physical law allows so long as you are willing to accept the consequences of your action.
 

findelhe

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Nov 5, 2008
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Woodsey said:
Father Time said:
Woodsey said:
GWarface said:
Woodsey said:
Free speech is a myth, and so it should be.
Not where i live...

I feel sorry for you...
I feel sorry for you if people are allowed to run around the streets inciting racial hatred and the like.
I feel sorry if you live in a world where people can be prosecuted for spreading what the government declares to be bad ideas (ideas that don't incite violence)
Where do you people live, fucking Narnia? It's not like we've got guns to our heads telling us what to say. There are perfectly reasonable laws in place to stop morons from inciting hatred against any and all groups.
That's a bit odd there. You seem really hung up on offending groups and racial hatred. Not saying it is not a problem but just because someone can't say it in public that doesn't make the hate go away. It almost sounds like you are preaching thought control. It really shouldn't matter what race, group, or religion you are all humans should have the same level of protection from things like you preach. Either way this argument is sounding too much like national thought control.

There will always be rational people and there will always be irrational haters.
 

Cali0602

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Aug 3, 2008
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freedomweasel said:
Cpt_Oblivious said:
SnootyEnglishman said:
everyone is America is too sensitive and easily offended these days.
Yet we still teach children that "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me". Funny, eh?
Am I the only one who thinks that saying is a load of crap? I mean, to an extent, no, words don't hurt people in the same way sticks and stones do. At the same time though it seems to place more blame on the people being offended compared to the people saying mean things.
Maybe I'm looking at it too broadly, it just seemed like an excuse for teachers to not have to deal with bullying.
Who still teaches "words will never hurt me" ? I haven't heard anyone say that for over two decades. If kids are still being taught this, I'm with Weasel in saying that it's ridiculous. I hope this is one saying that doesn't get passed on to the next generation.
 

TheTurtleMan

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Mar 2, 2010
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RobCoxxy said:
I don't think you seem to understand the difference between an NC17 rating and an R rating. I have never even seen a movie with an NC17 in theatres because it usually features something resembling a porno at some point that ratings boards required to be cut, while I can't even tell you how many block-buster rated R movies I've seen at the movies featuring all the sex and drugs you want. I'm not even trying to argue because you seem to have a bit of confusion about the ratings.
 

Chicago Ted

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Jan 13, 2009
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jimduckie said:
gee being canadian has some benefits too , anyway free speech should be covered when it comes to video games ...yet in some countries free speech is not a right so always remember those who serve your country ...
You kidding? Canada's Freedom of Expression can be limited far easier then the American's Freedom of Speech. I find it makes ours seem rather restricted by comparison.