A question for the Irish folk? and British as well, i suppose
- Thread starter rt052192
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Charles 1st may have been a cretin, but Cromwell and his cronies turned into the Christian equivalent of the Taliban when they got into power. The parliamentarian ideas for running the army were good though.
A bit of a footnote? You are kidding aren't you? He's considered to be one of our most important historical figures.Plinglebob said:
Well as an Irish history student, I know Cromwell as a mass-murder.
After winning the English Civil War in 1649, and thus the Crown of England, he went to Ireland in response to "mass" murders of protestants in the north in 1641
While 60,000 were killed, it was reported by the Brits to Cromwell that 600,000 were killed, petty good going seeing as there was only 480,000 in the country.
Thus He led a army into Ireland to remove the Catholics.
His main claim to fame was "To Hell or To Connacht".
Get killed or move to the much much much poorer lands of Connacht. (I live there and it SUCKS SO MUCH!!!!)
Also the Cromwellian Plantation.
Land ownership and political authority passed from the older inhabitants to the new colonists, from Irish and Old English Catholics to a landed ascendancy of English Protestants who were to control the life of Ireland until the twentieth century.
So Now... (Sorry to drag this on)
P.S. PLZ NO FLAME WARS!!!!
After winning the English Civil War in 1649, and thus the Crown of England, he went to Ireland in response to "mass" murders of protestants in the north in 1641
While 60,000 were killed, it was reported by the Brits to Cromwell that 600,000 were killed, petty good going seeing as there was only 480,000 in the country.
Thus He led a army into Ireland to remove the Catholics.
His main claim to fame was "To Hell or To Connacht".
Get killed or move to the much much much poorer lands of Connacht. (I live there and it SUCKS SO MUCH!!!!)
Also the Cromwellian Plantation.
Land ownership and political authority passed from the older inhabitants to the new colonists, from Irish and Old English Catholics to a landed ascendancy of English Protestants who were to control the life of Ireland until the twentieth century.
So Now... (Sorry to drag this on)
P.S. PLZ NO FLAME WARS!!!!
I suspect that I've been studying a different Oliver Cromwell. Yes, he was a bit of a megalomaniac, and I don't condone what he did in Ireland, but on the other hand he was reformed the army, broke the power of the monarchy, turned down the offer to become King, attempted to rule on behalf of and in the best interests of the people and promoted religious tolerance. He was an intensely flawed human being but a great man nevertheless.
Basically this,
'He was a bit insane - travelling the country, desecrating Churches of their gold and eventually leading a rag tag team of Monty python-esque bad guys to victory over the Monarchy.'
Just something I wrote for an article.
'He was a bit insane - travelling the country, desecrating Churches of their gold and eventually leading a rag tag team of Monty python-esque bad guys to victory over the Monarchy.'
Just something I wrote for an article.
I have to extremely disagree about Cromwell being religiously tolerant and in the best interests of all the people he rules. He was out for the English Protestants more so Anglicans than anyone else.DomM said:
OT: I completely hate the man and wish he never set foot in Ireland. He somehow managed to make it a worse place for the Irish to live after he got hold of it.
[vimeo]Vimeo [http://vimeo.com/1553083].
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Also this video describes Cromwell well at the end I think I embeded it right if not go to here [www.langerland.com].
Im scottish. Honestly its impossible to judge a man so long dead BUT he was likely responsible for the killing of several of my ancestors so yea, bad man.
Being Scottish I think we share a strong and cultural bond with the Irish still to this day both countries fought at each others sides for our independance hell we shared the same king, so from that side hes a dick.
From an objective view hes a dick, clearly a zealot to the core (just try justifying civilian deaths over religion i dare you) murdering innocents, a powergrabber on the positives he was a decent cavalier.
From an objective view hes a dick, clearly a zealot to the core (just try justifying civilian deaths over religion i dare you) murdering innocents, a powergrabber on the positives he was a decent cavalier.
I don't think you could get more evil than that. I mean, once you've Stolen Christmas, where do you go from there?fishman279 said:
But yeah, Cromwell rots in hell, there can be no forgiveness, tomorrow chimes of ghostly crimes that haunt Tobacco Island, all the classics.
Hmmm any British Jews want to wade in? He made it possible to worship any religion you want, allowing Jews to return to England. (Because he wanted to convert all jews to christianity and bring about the second coming, but still a blow for tolerance.) He also taught the monarchy that they do not have absolute power and if they fuck with the people there will be consequences.
I hate him. I am from Drogheda, one of the first towns he sacked after his invasion. He massacred population. In fact there is still a street in the town called "Scarlet Street". The reason for the name? It ran red with blood.rt052192 said:
His invasion saw the deaths of up-to 600,000 Irish civillans, that was from a population of c.1.1 Million.
Those who lived had to face to horror of the Transplatation.
Cromwell? I spit on his grave and smile!
Lies.fishman279 said:
He did not ban it, merely what he saw as the unnecessary the revelry and debauchery that went along with it. Christmas as a Christian festival/ event remained.
OP: I think he was a very good soldier, great tactician, but poor as a peacetime leader as he seemed to have little idea of what to do with the country, other than making sure that he stayed as top dog. However, he was also ahead of his time in some aspects, attempting to clean up the corruption and inefficiencies of the monarchy, and he let the Jews back into England.
The whole Irish thing wasn't nice of course, but hes not exactly the only Englishman to be a total shit to the Irish...
Guessing you mean Cavalier in the sense of a horseman? 'Cos typically cavalier refers to the royalists an that, which I'm sure you know, I just wana satisfy my pedantic mindNmil-ek said:
Um welling seeing as an estimated 500,000 my countrymen died because of reasons related to him, I fucking hope he rots in he'll for ever and ever.
Fuck you Cromwell
Fuck you Cromwell
That is the very top end of the range that I've seen, most historians argue that the population was reduced by 15-25%, which is pretty typical for a seventeenth century conflict (the siege of La Rochelle saw over 80% of the population die). It seems a little harsh to pillory Cromwell when everyone did it back then.HerrBobo said: