A question for you Europeans about the future of the Euro......

[DirtyJunkieScum]

If I thought the Conservatives were evil I could accept it but the Euro Crisis and the Leveson enquiry are just showing they don't have a bloody clue

No, they are evil, they are just Evil Stupid.

The problem in the UK is that 13 years of Socialist misrule and fiscal impropriety left us with hugely inflated public sector costs and benefit hand outs, unaffordable public sector pensions, destroyed private pensions, a huge influx of immigration that pressurised services beyond belief and a culture of entitlement that is unmatched in the world. The public sector and the benefit claimants need to understand the gravy train has stopped, Labour's bribes are over and that there needs to be a market correction where entrprise and work is rewarded.

There's also the previous 18 rules of conservative misrule, gutting our industrial sectors and putting all our eggs in the banking basket. Well, and defence, people will always be killing each other so at least that was a good idea. I do agree with your view on mass immigration and promotion of useless degrees and ease of claiming benefits etc for nothing, however labour also had a lot of business enterprise schemes that have been cut back under the Tories which doesn't help. That said a lot of them were very half assed, instead of properly supporting growth industries like the Germans they created byzantine labyrinths of business grants in the "throw money at it and it'll hopefully work" manner. While people do need to be willing to work it helps for there to be Industries to work in.

Basically the Tories seem to not understand that sometimes in order to make money you have to spend money and Labour didn't seem to get that throwing money at something will not guarantee success.

The British can and do however elect people to the European parliament and so they not only can comment on something but can also change it if they wish. My problem is not with that it is with certain people within the UK who on the one hand state vehmethley that they are not European but then try to tell the EU what to do. It annoys me that they can't make there mind up as to whether or not they are actually European.

Yes, but at the same time European policy affects the UK and last time I checked the UK could not dictate EU policy, only negotiate for changes. What the EU does affects them, they are clearly stating that they do not want to be part of Europe but since they are they would like the EU to act in a way that benefits them, or at least in their mind has the least negative effect.

 

[fenrizz]

Hahaha!
Norway lives on top of Europe, leeching off all the benefits from being part of Europe, but with our own currency, so we aren't being dragged downby the rest of Europe sinking.

If you need us we'll be hanging out up here with our oil, suckers.

Indeed.
God, how I love our oil!

*Fellownorwegianhighfive*

*Sticky, oil covered, high five*

careful guys there's been a few invasions of oil rich country's lately...

Did I say oil?

Ehrm.. We don't have any oil, none at all.
It's all just evil rumors set forth by our enemies!

 

[Private Custard]

Also to all the people from the UK who feel the need to post here allow me to reiterate something I would have thought you would have picked up by now. Either your Europeans or your not. Stop trying to pick and choose. Hell when I'm getting leaflets from UKIP telling me how to vote in a European election I think it's fair to say that you are over-stepping your boundaries.

What are we trying to pick and choose? Are you trying to say that just because we hate the EU it means we aren't European? The OP asked if Europeans had noticed any affects from the demise of the Euro, so since we are from Europe and the Euro is going to screw us over we posted here.

The amount of times I have to put up with people from the UK saying one second that they are not European and then the next second turning around and trying to tell the EU (good luck with that) what to do drives me up the wall.

Granted I realise I acted without properly reading over this thread.

Us European never really seemed to have a problem with calling the Americans stupid and commentating on their politics so it seems a bit late in the game to suggest the Brits can't do it to the EU.

Yes but there is a difference in that we can only comment on the US we can't get involved, the British however can do both with Europe.

We pay over £9bn (EDIT: or is it £65bn, or £118bn? Different sources quote different figures. I think the £9bn cost is our loss after expenses. Either way, it's enough money to give us our say!) into the rapidly failing EU project, even though a massive number of ordinary UK citizens think the entire thing's a massive fail.....and have done for many years. I think we can say whatever we feel like saying. It's just a shame no-one that has any power is listening.

I'd say I hate so say I told you so, but I don't! Many people predicted this shitstorm when talk of a single currency was thrown around, yet at no point have the people of the UK had a say on any of this. We're just sitting here having the piss taken out of us constantly, so yes, we'll complain when we feel like it.

The EU experiment is laid out on it's side, struggling to breathe with its legs twitching. It needs a final bolt to the head to finish it off.

Don't get me wrong, I love Europe as a continent, the diversity of its peoples, landscapes, cusine and climate.......doesn't mean it'll work when they're all stiched together financially. Imagine if you stitched Ussain Bolt to Johnny Vegas, after a week of Bolt trying to sprint and drag Vegas along, while he fights to stay sat in his seat eating pies, they'd both be fucked. Now stitch 27 people together.....

 

[MammothBlade]

I'm not being affected. The horrible Euro is on its way out, and when that happens, it's party time. I can't wait. However, it could go the other way. The European Federalists are determined to get what they want. The EU will become more totalitarian as it seeks to hold onto the twisted dream of a European superstate. Ireland, Greece, and Italy have faced the brunt of EU dictatorship. Violent police suppression, a puppet government in Italy, and outright economic terrorism imposed by the European Central Bank. They will not go quietly.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

Affecting me? Hah, nope, i live in sweden and use good old Kronor like my father and his father

Technically, it would be easier in a bunch of ways to use one money in all countries, but i do not like homogenization or whatever it is called, to make everything and everyone the same
I hope greece goes back to the Drachma, they look cool

 

[Melon Hunter]

Paraphrasing I know but here goes:

"Has the Euro devaluing affected you?"

Well let's consult the evidence. I'm unemployed due to there being no work available. My country is so Politically bankrupt (as in no politicians worth a damn) that we have nobody to try and even give the country guidance. We have an election coming up on a Fiscal Treaty THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN FINISHED WRITTEN YET that would see us further, for lack of a better word, enslaved to the bureaucrats in Europe who are above reproach by anyone. My Father is out of work and my mother had to leave work to look after my grandparents because the state can't afford to pay them a pension worth a damn while ex-TD's are living off four to six pensions while they are years away from retirement age. The only party gathering any sort of support is a party who I disagree with on a number of Fundamental stand points the least of which being the fact that they are a Nationalist party.

And oh yeah if the Greece leaves my country will probably follow because the fat pig-shit for brains Finance Minister we have will probably think: "Huhu the Punt sounds funnier then the Euro." My support for that speculation is that he recently went on record saying the ONLY thing that would happen if Greece left the Euro would be that Feta cheese would be more expensive.

Also to all the people from the UK who feel the need to post here allow me to reiterate something I would have thought you would have picked up by now. Either your Europeans or your not. Stop trying to pick and choose. Hell when I'm getting leaflets from UKIP telling me how to vote in a European election I think it's fair to say that you are over-stepping your boundaries.

Yeah a Greek exit from the Euro would be very bad. It would of course hit the Greeks the worst because money would flow out of Greece and into the eurozone, and nobody would want to touch the drachma. It would also further lower investor confidence in the euro, and it would make borrowing even more expensive for countries like Spain and Italy, which is why some people worry that a Greek exit could trigger a domino effect.

The consensus from the recent G8 Conference appears to be that Greece should stay in the eurozone... but how Europe's going to fix Greece's problems we don't know. The main trend is that the whole austerity policy championed by Merkel is facing increasing criticism, especially after Hollande became French president. The problem with moving away from austerity however would be that increased state investment would mean more borrowing and heightened debts.

At any rate, it's one hell of a complicated mess, i don't envy the politicians who have to try and resolve it.

Problem is, austerity is starting to look like a bad thing. The head of the IMF looked over Britain's finances recently, and said that although spending cuts over the last couple of years had been a good thing, we now needed a Plan B that placed less emphasis on cuts and more on growth to avoid being caught in an loop of cutting back, should another financial crisis emerge. Of course, George Osbourne, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, tuned out what he didn't want to hear, and said that he was glad the Government's spending cuts had received full endorsement from the IMF and that they would continue.

At the moment, there needs to be more focus on growth, which has been sluggish ever since the 2008 crisis. Cutting back simply does not work when it harms your ability to bring in more revenue, but this is exactly what the pro-austerity policies are doing at the minute. The Greeks might do better in the long run leaving the Euro, as they'll be free to set their own interest rates once again. Of course, the instability then caused in the rest of the Eurozone would cause all manner of panic. It really is difficult to say what should be done here.

This is too true, that Cretin Osborne has been waffling on about belt tightening and austerity for the past 2 years whilst at the same time lamenting that Britons are not spending enough money to boost the economy.

Well no shit! peopke don't generally spend their money when they might lose their public sector job any day, they save their cash to spend on clean water and shotgun shells.

If I thought the Conservatives were evil I could accept it but the Euro Crisis and the Leveson enquiry are just showing they don't have a bloody clue

Actually, I completely disagree with this. We need to continue austerity, cut more really, even in the face of the whining and moaning of the vested interests, the Unions, the public sector etc. The comment above seems wrong as well, I read the report as the IMF praising austerity and saying it was the reason Britain retained its triple "A" rating and thus that is why bond prices haven't soared.

The problem in the UK is that 13 years of Socialist misrule and fiscal impropriety left us with hugely inflated public sector costs and benefit hand outs, unaffordable public sector pensions, destroyed private pensions, a huge influx of immigration that pressurised services beyond belief and a culture of entitlement that is unmatched in the world. The public sector and the benefit claimants need to understand the gravy train has stopped, Labour's bribes are over and that there needs to be a market correction where entrprise and work is rewarded.

It's not wrong at all. Here are the actual quotes:

"When I look back to 2010 and what could have happened without fiscal consolidation, I shiver... Unfortunately the economic recovery in the UK has not yet taken hold and uncertainties abound," said Ms Lagarde. "The stresses in the euro area affect the UK through many channels. Growth is too slow and unemployment ? including youth unemployment ? is too high. Policies to bolster demand before low growth becomes entrenched are needed."

And from Mr. Osbourne:

"The IMF couldn't be clearer. Britain has to deal with its debts and the Government's fiscal policy is the appropriate one and an essential part of our road to recovery."

Note the dissonance there? While the IMF agrees the austerity policies have worked before now, there is now a very real danger that the UK could get stuck in a state of low growth due to overly aggressive spending cuts. However, Osbourne decided only to acknowledge the praise for the austerity schemes, and to take it as affirmation to carry on as before - which is exactly what the IMF is warning against!

We are currently in a double-dip recession, and growth is expected to fall for a third quarter thanks to the Diamond Jubilee Bank Holidays. Austerity alone cannot cut the deficit; there needs to be more stimulus for growth. Without that, the cuts will continue scuppering the very economy they were meant to boost.

The quotes are from this article. [http://www.independent.co.uk/hei-fi/news/growth-is-too-slow-and-unemploymentis-too-high-imf-chief-warns-chancellor-7781482.html?origin=internalSearch]

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Honestly, not really. I live in the UK and the news seems hell-bent on convincing us that the sky is falling, but apart from prices getting unnervingly steep (but still not as bad as a lot of places), no drastic personal measures have had to be taken so far. We don't have the Euro, but our trade is so tied into the Eurozone it really makes no difference that we have a separate currency. Whatever happens there theoretically should have huge implications for the British economy.

Maybe it's just because we Brits are always such stingy, miserable fucks that it's hard to notice any difference...

While I'm all for increased European co-operation, I pretty much called this years ago. A single European currency where countries have no power to regulate each-other's spending until it's already too late is stupid. Almost as stupid as a single European Parliament where people from each nation only get to vote for a tiny percentage of its members, and thus will never recognise its authority.

 

[Hollyday]

Here in Italy it's all anyone talks about. The main problem though is general and widespread unemployment (blamed on the EU and euro but more wrapped up in the extremely odd employment laws and lack of social mobility, at least here in the south). As a factor effecting my day to day life it hardly registers, but when I go back to the UK for the summer I may have a nasty shock trying to exchange my euros and getting significantly less than I expect...

 

[Nickolai77]

It's not wrong at all. Here are the actual quotes:

"When I look back to 2010 and what could have happened without fiscal consolidation, I shiver... Unfortunately the economic recovery in the UK has not yet taken hold and uncertainties abound," said Ms Lagarde. "The stresses in the euro area affect the UK through many channels. Growth is too slow and unemployment ? including youth unemployment ? is too high. Policies to bolster demand before low growth becomes entrenched are needed."

And from Mr. Osbourne:

"The IMF couldn't be clearer. Britain has to deal with its debts and the Government's fiscal policy is the appropriate one and an essential part of our road to recovery."

Note the dissonance there? While the IMF agrees the austerity policies have worked before now, there is now a very real danger that the UK could get stuck in a state of low growth due to overly aggressive spending cuts. However, Osbourne decided only to acknowledge the praise for the austerity schemes, and to take it as affirmation to carry on as before - which is exactly what the IMF is warning against!

We are currently in a double-dip recession, and growth is expected to fall for a third quarter thanks to the Diamond Jubilee Bank Holidays. Austerity alone cannot cut the deficit; there needs to be more stimulus for growth. Without that, the cuts will continue scuppering the very economy they were meant to boost.

The quotes are from this article. [http://www.independent.co.uk/hei-fi/news/growth-is-too-slow-and-unemploymentis-too-high-imf-chief-warns-chancellor-7781482.html?origin=internalSearch]

I think the Tories must be waking up to the fact that austerity isn't really working but they (most notably Osborne) don't want to admit they were wrong and make an embarrassing U-turn. In either case, the longer the Tories stay in denial the better it for Labour who's popularity is only going to increase the longer the government continue with what the general public are increasingly viewing as a failed policy.

The problem is, even if everyone in Parliament admits there needs to be growth orientated policies and more public investment, it's far from clear if we can afford the cash to do so, and even if that would be off any benefit. The UK could boost public investment but that may not necessarily lead to recovery due to the situation in Greece. I don't really think the UK is going to properly recover until Greece Italy and Spain have sorted out their problems. We live in an inter-dependant system with Europe (and the wider world, heck there is talk of a Chinese economic slowdown due to Europe's problems) and this means that national governments are becoming increasingly unable to resolve even domestic economic problems without co-ordinated action with other states.

The UK can't resolve it's own problems working alone, it needs to work in tandem with other European leaders to work towards creating European economic growth. Cameron isn't the right PM to do this, he's saddled to a party full of euro-sceptics who won't let him engage with Europe for fear of losing "sovereignty" to the big nasty EU.

The problem with the Tories is that they a party with 19th century views to world politics who are trying to resolve a very 21st century problem.

 

[Shivarage]

Actually, I completely disagree with this. We need to continue austerity, cut more really, even in the face of the whining and moaning of the vested interests, the Unions, the public sector etc. The comment above seems wrong as well, I read the report as the IMF praising austerity and saying it was the reason Britain retained its triple "A" rating and thus that is why bond prices haven't soared.

The problem in the UK is that 13 years of Socialist misrule and fiscal impropriety left us with hugely inflated public sector costs and benefit hand outs, unaffordable public sector pensions, destroyed private pensions, a huge influx of immigration that pressurised services beyond belief and a culture of entitlement that is unmatched in the world. The public sector and the benefit claimants need to understand the gravy train has stopped, Labour's bribes are over and that there needs to be a market correction where entrprise and work is rewarded.

Oh God >_< why the hell didn't you just type "it were all Labour's fawwlt?!?!?1!21?!"

Also, why do you ignore the fact that if people don't have money to spend then the economy can't grow?

You talk like you hate everyone who helps you

You know what would make enterprise and work rewarding? RAISE WAGES FOR EVERYONE TO MEET AND RISE ABOVE INFLATION

but no, I already know what you are going to say because you don't really want the economy to grow, you just want to make a profit for yourself at any cost but you can't do that while the economy is nearly dead so you will tell me "its discompetitive and I wants all the monies for myself!"

Well, whatever - truth is it wouldnt matter what the label of the current government is, they are all the same and England had nothing to do with the american housing market crash caused by stupid lending practices by people who cared more about their own pay packet than doing a good job

 

[Pipotchi]

Why shouldn't Germany just drop the Euro? Wouldn't that be the best long-term solution?

Actually No, a large chunk of the reason Germany is doing so well is that it exports a lot of its goods to other countries who also use the Euro. Essentially its costing them a lot less to produce their goods than it would if they reverted to the Mark.

If the Euro collapses they would still have a great manufacuring base and a good work ethic but no-one else in Europe would be able to afford their products hence decreased sales and the subsequent unemployment and so on. Thats why they have a vested interest in Keeping Greece in the club, not because Greece deserves it but Greece is acting as a firewall to Spain and Italy who in turn spend vast amounts of Money on BMWs, VW, Bosch etc

 

[Trivun]

Why shouldn't Germany just drop the Euro? Wouldn't that be the best long-term solution?

The problem is that the leader of Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel, is in power because of Europe and she is completely devoted to the EU. Mainly due to the power she has within the EU. For a long time, France and Germany had all the power, because Nicholas Sarkozy (former French president) and Merkel were the key players in the EU. They, and their predecessors in each country's leadership, were able to formulate treaties such as Lisbon and policies such as the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) that provided mass benefits to their countries and their allies while they barely had to pay anything into such policies. Effectively, Europe was funding their countries development. Now, with the double-dip recession and the failure of the Euro single currency in countries like Greece, more and more nations are threatening to drop the Euro or institute their own financial policies promoting spending to force economic growth where possible, which is the best situation right now (in particular, trying to force as much foreign investment as possible as cash injections to these nations' economies).

But, Merkel and Sarkozy were planning 'austerity measures', i.e. policies focused on saving money. However, this has simply worsened the situation as the money that is in the economy in each country is sitting unused rather than being spent on the right things to generate more money. In an economy, money has to flow to create growth. The austerity measures were dragging each country down, and in turn the rest of the EU followed suit.

In the current crisis, the major players are France, Greece and Germany. The recent situation is that Angela Merkel, Germany's leader, wants to continue austerity measures because it fits the economic model used by the single currency. The French got sick and tired of not seeing growth, so they ousted their leader in the recent general elections and for the first time in forever elected a socialist, who wants to spend money and promote growth. The Greeks, meanwwhile, couldn't decide on a leader and are now having to try to build a coalition government of several different political parties, who may have opposing views. They are also literally bankrupt, and no country is willing to lend them money.

The situation with Germany, therefore, is that Angela Merkel is desperate to see the EU continue, because it's more power for her and her country. But, to do that, she needs to keep the austerity measures going, and keep the other key nations (such as the UK) weak within the EU. But, most nations want to spend money, and the new French president (Francois Hollande) is on better terms with the UK than his predecessor was, and less friendly terms with Merkel. So Merkel faces losing power there as well as the French/German power base begins to collapse. It's all rather complicated, so to finish, I'll just say that Merkel is reliant on the EU to stay powerful, and recent EU developments are forcing her power base to crumble.

To answer your original question, therefore, despite it being so complicated, the German leader won't allow Germany to drop the Euro because if she does, she loses power. It's a sign of weakness within the EU. By the way, if I've made mistakes here, anyone, then feel free to correct me. Also, if anyone can elaborate on my explanation then that would be great too .

I am willing to make a prediction here, one I made to my grandmother the other day too. Within five years, the single currency will have collapsed and everyone will be back to their original currency. And within ten years, the EU will either have disbanded or no longer be a political force, but rather purely economic.

 

[Lectori Salutem]

So far, it doesn't seem to be affecting me. If the Euro collapses and we are forced to adapt another currency, I'd be fairly pissed off, though. I think it to be quite convenient.