A Question to Americans (Political)

[rutger5000]

Because the ones that actually get elected are almost universally not crazy? Romney has his faults, but all in all he's a pretty moderate guy. The same can be said of Bush despite all slander to the contrary. I'd also say the same of every Democrat that has been elected in recent years. I'd say we haven't had a truly crazy president since LBJ, and a truly terrible one since Nixon. If you're talking about the radicals like motherfucking Santorum, well that's because he's a radical. He's pretty far out there, as you most obviously can tell. There are some pretty nuts people among the Democrats too, Edwards was pretty fucked up in his own way. The truth of the matter is that both parties run candidates that are far less different than you would like to believe, and judging either party by their crazier members makes no sense.

As for how the Republican party has changed over the years, Theodore Roosevelt can be thanked for most of it, as well as Reagan. Neither party has changed too much from their early years. Democrats were originally the party of the poor white man and eventually added immigrants to that while Republicans were for the business man. Teddy added war to their firmly held beliefs, FDR added it to the Democrats while his wife tried to get the Democrats to support minorities. Kennedy added to that belief in supporting minorities, while he and LBJ were some of the most hawkish presidents ever. Nixon backed away from supporting minorities to get support of southern moderate Democrats, which worked, though Nixon's promises to halt civil rights were obviously impossible to fulfill, meaning he probably never intended to deliver on them and really just cared about foreign affairs. Reagan was the one who really changed the Republican party by focusing on a large military budget, support of business, and lower taxes, while also supporting conservative morals. This is all a major generalization of course.

Also, to those saying that Republicans only win through religious support, how come their the ones running the religious minority this year (in the eyes of many Americans Romney is just that) and ran the less religious candidate last year? Christianity is central to both parties, their views on secularism are what truly divide the parties, though not as much as it would seem.

Edit: I forgot to add that Democrats became the more peaceful party around the Jimmy Carter era, though the party is anything but pacifistic and still supports a greater level of military spending than I personally consider reasonable.

Edit2: Both sides fear monger like fucking crazy. Both sides will fear monger about every issue that arises, and it works on both sides. Both sides pander to conspiracy theorist types, just about opposing issues. Neither side has clean hands when it comes to this, and I am so tired of people saying Republicans are the only ones who do this.

Slander against Bush is completly justified, in fact it isn't nearly as severe as it should be. Bush started an illigal war (as in without proper support from both his own nation as the international community) without any provication. The USA ought to have been kicked out the UN for their war against Iraq. (which unfortunately is impossible since the USA has a veto)

 

[Naeras]

It's a terrible, retarded, "us vs them" system; where it is about "winning" and "losing". The democrats present something useful, and the republicans have to tear it down on principle. The republicans present something useful, and the democrats have to tear it down on principle. The independents and third parties present something useful, and no one gives a crap. I don't know how to break it without a huge cultural change in the U.S., but until that time, I gotta play the shitty game by the shitty rules.

It does kind of make sense to do that if all you're after is winning the next election, which sadly is how political parties tend to operate. "This seems reasonable, but we can't let them get it through because then they can brag about doing something useful. Let's screw it up so we can point out that they didn't get to do anything useful" is a very easy way of gaining voters, especially if the people in question didn't care enough about the cases to see why it never went through. It's practiced over here in Norway as well, although we have more parties than the US, and thus this stuff doesn't usually make as much of a difference as in what's essentially a two-party system.

Politics in general, but especially american politics, needs more pragmatics in my opinion.

 

[Kennetic]

Well to be fair, both Republicans and Democrats are shit. That's why nothing ever gets done and they try to make every American feel that they need to vote for one or the other. I, myself, am a Libertarian.

 

[rutger5000]

You're not going to get an accurate cross-section of American politics on the Escapist. It's primarily young people, and Americans seem to be in the minority of forum posters.

Many, many, many misconceptions have been posted here.

--------
Myth) Republicans are backwards and hate happiness.

Reality) While one could make an argument for religious zealots, the majority of Republicans are, like me, primarily fiscal conservatives. We believe that people are happiest when they're able to pull themselves out of a bad situation to a good one, rather than being dependent on someone else for their very well-being. Having a job is a far more fulfilling way of life than being on the government payroll. We see the welfare state as a means of pulling the unfortunate out of a desperate situation, not a way to sustain the unfortunate in a state of eternal dependency.

The idea of rugged individualism and self-determination are rather new in the greater scheme of human development. Up until the proven success of free enterprise and democracy, civilization typically swore fealty to a monarch or dictator, who may or may not have been granted their rights be their own divinity.

---------
Myth) Republicans are racist.

Reality) Racists exist in all walks of life. There are many forms of racism. Most young people do not recognize racism toward white people as racism. Also, most of them only recognize the more easily identified "hate" style racism. However, Republicans prefer to fight racism by holding every person, regardless of skin color, to the same standard. I.E. White-knighting by white liberals is not our way. American minorities have the power to pull themselves up, and we recognize that. Democrats typically prefer to think they need the help of the white man. THAT. Is racism.

---------
Myth) Republicans are warmongers.

Reality) This is the most easily debunked myth. Whether or not America goes to war has, historically, had nothing to do with which party holds the White House. America's perception of war is vastly controlled by mass media, who typically will justify, or condemn military action based on politics, not truth or morality.

---------
Myth) Republicans disagree with Democrats because Republicans are racist, sexist bigot hicks.

Reality) I have the liberal belief system in regards to most social issues. Gay rights, abortion, women's rights, what have you. In truth, I would be a Democrat myself if it weren't for the fact that they do not care about the long-term financial longevity of this sovereign state. Their entire economic model is based on demand created by spending, which, historically, creates the much-villified boom/bust cycle, and adds to an inflating national debt over the long term. Democrats also seem to have a quasi-Malthusian approach to economics.

Another reason I'm not a Democrat is because they tend to manipulate racial tension for their own political gain. Divide and conquer.

Sorry for the long quote. I haven't mastered the art of proper quoting yet. I only want to reply on the war mongers myth. I'm sorry to say, but it's easily comfirmed (just did it in 5 minutes) that it's true, depending on your definition of war monger. War monger might be a bit excesive. But it can easily proven that in the last 60 years by far the most wars the USA participated in started when there was a republican president. Now to call them warmongers for that is indeed a bit extreme. But if preventing war is your main concern, you ought to vote democratic.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Because the ones that actually get elected are almost universally not crazy? Romney has his faults, but all in all he's a pretty moderate guy. The same can be said of Bush despite all slander to the contrary. I'd also say the same of every Democrat that has been elected in recent years. I'd say we haven't had a truly crazy president since LBJ, and a truly terrible one since Nixon. If you're talking about the radicals like motherfucking Santorum, well that's because he's a radical. He's pretty far out there, as you most obviously can tell. There are some pretty nuts people among the Democrats too, Edwards was pretty fucked up in his own way. The truth of the matter is that both parties run candidates that are far less different than you would like to believe, and judging either party by their crazier members makes no sense.

As for how the Republican party has changed over the years, Theodore Roosevelt can be thanked for most of it, as well as Reagan. Neither party has changed too much from their early years. Democrats were originally the party of the poor white man and eventually added immigrants to that while Republicans were for the business man. Teddy added war to their firmly held beliefs, FDR added it to the Democrats while his wife tried to get the Democrats to support minorities. Kennedy added to that belief in supporting minorities, while he and LBJ were some of the most hawkish presidents ever. Nixon backed away from supporting minorities to get support of southern moderate Democrats, which worked, though Nixon's promises to halt civil rights were obviously impossible to fulfill, meaning he probably never intended to deliver on them and really just cared about foreign affairs. Reagan was the one who really changed the Republican party by focusing on a large military budget, support of business, and lower taxes, while also supporting conservative morals. This is all a major generalization of course.

Also, to those saying that Republicans only win through religious support, how come their the ones running the religious minority this year (in the eyes of many Americans Romney is just that) and ran the less religious candidate last year? Christianity is central to both parties, their views on secularism are what truly divide the parties, though not as much as it would seem.

Edit: I forgot to add that Democrats became the more peaceful party around the Jimmy Carter era, though the party is anything but pacifistic and still supports a greater level of military spending than I personally consider reasonable.

Edit2: Both sides fear monger like fucking crazy. Both sides will fear monger about every issue that arises, and it works on both sides. Both sides pander to conspiracy theorist types, just about opposing issues. Neither side has clean hands when it comes to this, and I am so tired of people saying Republicans are the only ones who do this.

Slander against Bush is completly justified, in fact it isn't nearly as severe as it should be. Bush started an illigal war (as in without proper support from both his own nation as the international community) without any provication. The USA ought to have been kicked out the UN for their war against Iraq. (which unfortunately is impossible since the USA has a veto)

The fuck? Do you know anything about... The fuck? What Bush did was entirely legal within American law, it just wasn't a war. If what he did was illegal than the same can be said of every American conflict since WWII, which were in no way illegal, though LBJ was a lying ************, even Vietnam was technically legal. The president can conduct any military action that he pleases, he just can't declare war. Eventually support from congress has to be given for continued deployment, which he got. The latter became a law after Vietnam because of how fucked up that all was. As for international law and a "lack of international support," no. Just... no. There were other nations participating in the conflict, and though I have no clue what the laws are for this kind of thing in an international sense, I severely doubt it was illegal at all.

And when the fuck is slander ever justified. Slander is fucking illegal. It is one of the few types of speech that should always be illegal. I was exaggerating, you seem to be actually supporting people blatantly lying about the man in order to ruin his career.

 

[theheroofaction]

Because People who don't try to solve problems are better than people who can't solve problems.

Trying to fix a problem in the U.S. is like trying to fix a bicycle using nothing but a hammer, technically possible, but really damn hard.

In short, their appeal is that being conservative can't make anything worse than it already is.

Lesser of two evils, if you will.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

*snip*Sorry for the long quote. I haven't mastered the art of proper quoting yet. I only want to reply on the war mongers myth. I'm sorry to say, but it's easily comfirmed (just did it in 5 minutes) that it's true, depending on your definition of war monger. War monger might be a bit excesive. But it can easily proven that in the last 60 years by far the most wars the USA participated in started when there was a republican president. Now to call them warmongers for that is indeed a bit extreme. But if preventing war is your main concern, you ought to vote democratic.

In the last sixty years there hasn't been a war and two of the five major military conflicts began under Democrats (Korea and Vietnam were Truman and LBJ respectively while the gulf wars were both the Bushs and Afghanistan was Bush Jr.). In recent years you have a small piece of a point, in that Neocons tend to support larger military budgets, but both parties are absurdly pro-military in the greater scheme of things.

 

[ryanthemadman]

what we should do is just kick everyone out of office, and put in people who actually know what they're doing in.

 

[applesandoranges]

edit

 

[Hexenwolf]

Republicans now =/= Republicans during the Civil War. Our political parties have shifted back and forth throughout the centuries so trying to make that comparison now will only serve to confuse you more.

As for why they get votes? Republicans represent more than religious nujobs and societal stagnation. Many Republicans call themselves Republicans because they value capitalism and small government. You can make similar arguments to give the Democrats some credit too. Unfortunately many of the politicians on capital hill are all nutjobs and our broadcast media is full of morons, so its no wonder people get the wrong idea about our parties.

Honestly, I'm an independent that is socially liberal and economically conservative, so I don't really fall nicely into one camp or the other, and I don't think people should feel they have too anyway. I've always resented the two party system as it is far too polarizing and makes people feel the need to compromise their beliefs in order to fit into the mold of their party.

TL;DR Republicans look crazy on the news, but the politicians you see spouting garbage, whether they be Republican or Democratic, are hardly representative of everyone in their party.

Also, because someone mentioned them... I have more respect for the Libertarian Party than any other party in our system. I don't count myself as one of them, but I respect that they stand by their ideas and don't flip-flop when the chips are down. You know what they stand for and their is no bullshit to get in the way.

Wow. Hit the nail right on the head. You saved me some typing!

Also, it's nice to see someone else out there that doesn't simply identify as either wholly liberal or conservative. And ditto on Libertarians.

 

[Sean951]

what we should do is just kick everyone out of office, and put in people who actually know what they're doing in.

But I would say at least 25% and possibly 50% of the Congress does know what they are doing, but you don't hear about them. You hear from demagogues and people who can talk louder.

 

[direkiller]

Why is this party getting votes?

There is a movie called "Inherit the Wind"
It's is basically why they get votes and yes the people are just as crazy.

 

[Wieke]

More wars were started by Democrats. FAR more soldiers died in Democrat wars.

Suggesting the democrats started the two world wars is more than a bit unfair. Last time I checked both wars had been going on for a while before the united states decided it would be in their best interest to intervene.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

*snip*2) Teddy Roosevelt (REPUBLICAN) brought us into the Spanish-American war. American deaths: minimal.*snip*

Technically you are both right and wrong with that. He was one of the wars biggest supporters, but McKinley was president at the time.

 

[doomspore98]

As a Republican I can tell you that the "real social progress" you are talking about is socialism, and the conservatives of America believe in nothing more than a free market system for the economy and a reduced government size in order to maintain the freedoms that we as Americans share. As Obama has proven he doesn't really give a shit about our freedoms and is attempting to mandate that all Americans must buy health care.

4) The Republicans are using a fear mongering of sorts to win votes from the people. If they see anything that has even the most remote thing to do with something they don't believe in they will go to fox news and ask them to do a report on it. People on this site should know especially what fox news can do to something.

Maybe you should pay attention so more of Obama's speeches, he is the one fear mongering, like the whole if we don't pass the stimulus the economy will completely collapse bullshit. But on the other hand yes the Republicans do fear monger, both sides do its called politics.

I never said obama didn't. I just wanted to talk about the best news source that does. I have a question for you and it's not meant to be offensive, but do you believe in fox news, they've gotten so outlandish lately its hard to believe anything they say

 

[Zenn3k]

As an American of voting age...I can't get it either.

The Republicans are basically snake oil salesman. They promise a cure-all, then take your money and run away with it while you die of poisoning. They aren't interested in helping anyone for any reason what-so-ever (unless you lead a church and can influence voters), and insist that any attempt to do so is "socialist", while at the same time saying that all our problems can be fixed by the "Free Market", which is just another way of saying "Mega Corporations"

When was the last time a major business did ANYTHING to help anyone but their own boards? Everything the "Free Market" touches turns into giant piles of shit...and we're suppose to trust the well being of everyone in the country to them?!

Honestly, I can't stand my country (America), the only reason I'm even still here and not living else-where is because I can't afford to move...because my country is so fucked up that its nearly impossible to earn decent pay anymore.

I make 28k a year as a full time employee, I work my ass off, and live at "home" (aka, with mom) because I can't afford to pay my own rent, utilities, and still manage to have enough left over to eat. Yet I'm suppose to also afford my own health insurance, car insurance, have a good car (which usually requires payments itself), etc, etc as well?!

Its madness. I will never, EVER, EVER Vote Republican. If I like the Democratic candidate, I'll vote for him/her, or I won't vote at all.