A question to people who like or who used to like JRPGs.

[Eric the Orange]

First I guess I should give some background on where I'm coming from. I grew up with Nintendo in the 80's. during that time I grew up with JRPGs like FF and DQ1-4. But I feel the traditional JRPG had its golden age In the SNES area. So what I'm about to say could all just be nostalgia talking.

form about FF7 and the onset of the playstation area JRPGs have seemed to become style over substance. That's not to say there haven't been great JRPGs sense then. FFT has my favorite storyline in any JRPG ever. but as time has gone on they have continued the trend moving twords pretty graphics and cinematic over gameplay.

And prehaps not related many modern JRPG story lines just don't hold my interest. I liked GSD (very old school JRPG tendencies)a lot but the story was boring and I didn't really give a damn about the characters.

Any way is this just me? Am I just becoming an old man and nostalgia is clouding my vision? Or do you think JRPGs are the ones who changed?

 

[MisterShine]

Any way is this just me? Am I just becoming an old man and nostalgia is clouding my vision? Or do you think JRPGs are the ones who changed?

I agree, a lot of JRPG's I've tried from the last few years DO suffer from style over substance, and a dammed stubborn refusal to move forward the genre one iota.

That said, then I found out about the Shin Megami Tensei series. Quite good. A lot of style, more substance.

 

[oplinger]

...JRPGs really have not changed much. The story is almost entirely the same, like an episode of Bones, the plot unfolds the same way with different nouns plugged into the story.

TEENAGER saves KINGDOM from FLAMING DEATH SANDWICHES, while proving LOVE stomps EVIL.

or GIRL saves UNIVERSE from FATHER, while proving FRIENDSHIP stomps REVENGE.

I mean there can be twists and stuff, but really that's how it's always felt to me. It's just a different culture.

...western RPGs have about the same deal I'd suspect >.>

 

[migo]

I think really what happened with FF7 was the introduction of optical media, allowing for cutscenes. You can see starting in FF2 that the story was going that way (while FF1 isn't recognisable as a JRPG), but the gameplay was a bit different due to being on cartridge. Square definitely went overboard with the cutscenes, but I like the direction of some of the other JRPGs, which rather than being influenced by D&D originally, are more heavily influenced by Anime.

What I really like about Persona 3 is that it feels quite immersive, moreso than almost any other game I've played, giving you lots of choice and making the choice important, and putting a heavy social emphasis on the game, so you're actually playing it.

I think most people who are fed up with JRPGs are actually just fed up with Final Fantasy, and I have to admit that while I used to be a huge fan I'm much more interested now in Atlus games - who knows if I'll become as weary of them as Squenix though.

 

[Eric the Orange]

Any way is this just me? Am I just becoming an old man and nostalgia is clouding my vision? Or do you think JRPGs are the ones who changed?

I agree, a lot of JRPG's I've tried from the last few years DO suffer from style over substance, and a dammed stubborn refusal to move forward the genre one iota.

That said, then I found out about the Shin Megami Tensei series. Quite good. A lot of style, more substance.

Off topic but I'm guessing from your name and title your a fan Of Terry Pratchett and the Diskworld series.

And yes I am aware of SMT games. Honestly them and Atlus in general are really the one ray of light in an otherwise dark JRPG landscape.

EDIT: also I've heard a lot of good things about Radiant Historia coming out next moth. I hope that's a goodin'.

 

[Rabid Toilet]

As migo said, most of the people who are tired of samey JRPGs are just tired of Final Fantasy and its clones.

There are plenty of JRPGs that are different, be it in story or gameplay.

Disgaea
Persona 3 and 4
Any Shin Megami Tensei game ever
Ar Tonelico
Mana Khemia
Sakura Wars
Record of Agarest War
Valkyria Chronicles
Kingdom Hearts
Fire Emblem
etc.

 

[Devi Darkside]

With JRPGs I hate it say it but there time to share truly was during the SNES and Playstation era, since at the time they were trying to change it up constantly and in ways that didn't take too long to learn about and in ways where the gameplay changed for the better. On a very sad note JRPGs for the most part have either stayed the same for the most part when it comes to gameplay and storyline (Outside of Altus, I mean.) or in the case of what I've heard about Final Fantasy 13 it simply takes too long to get to the actual game, which for most people is a waste.

Honestly I think JRPGS have changed, and yes a lot during the Playstation era when it comes to both nostalgia and that I think the makers are wanting to impress people with cutscenes rather than gameplay and honestly I hope that changes.

 

[StraightToHeck]

if you want a JRPG with great story and characters, go pick up a copy of Lost Odyssey

seriously, it has what you want in a JRPG

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

JRPGs seem to have a little more (overall) depth to their stories. But yeah, could be that nostalgia is clouding you there, except for graphical quality very little has fundamentally changed about them.

 

[New Troll]

Bioware (Black Isle) killed JRPGs for me but they will always have thier place in my heart. Every once in awhile I feel nostalgic and will go back to a true JRPG but just can't get into them like I use to. Even the ones I truly loved like Shining in the Darkness and Super Hydlide.

 

[starwarsgeek]

I haven't really played many J-RPGs this generation, but my problem was less with the "genre" and more with...well, Final Fantasy. Game Freak seems to be content with refining Pokemon's mechanics while keeping its core pretty much the same, and Mario RPGs are still light-hearted stories with gameplay that deviates from the standards of the genre (Mario & Luigi does this by adding action prompts to turn-based combat, and Super Paper Mario is an action-RPG where the "action" is in the form of a sidescrolling platformer). Those are pretty much the only J-RPGs I've played this generation, so I can't really comment on them as a whole. However, I continue to enjoy most of the ones I play.


By the way, how was the fourth Star Ocean?

 

[animemetalhead]

JRPGs evolved in a certain way because of the limitations of the systems they were made for. Having a separate combat screen was acceptable in the NES, SNES, and PS1 days, because it allowed for more detailed combat than using the overworld sprites. However, in modern days, where graphics and processors can handle high-def 3d models, there's no point in sticking to the "traditional" guns.

JRPGs would get good again if they abandoned turn-based combat (Bonus points to Star Ocean) and had combat without a separate screen (1/2 a point to Chrono Trigger, which at least didn't have a flashy transition to combat, like it's taking place in a dream)

I've never really complained much about the stories, even if they all kind of rip off each other. My main complaint is that the character archetypes all seem to be the same (for given roles in a given game), and the message always seems to end with some power of friendship or power of love bullshit.

In short, change up the combat, give us some unique characters that aren't cookie-cutter copies of those from every other JRPG, and maybe not drop an Aesop on our heads like an anvil at the end.

 

[Greenhand]

Many JRPGs seem to think that the characters' interactions with each-other (often semi-romantically) are as or more important than the actual story, which typically revolves around saving the world
Earth to Japan: Romance < Saving The World.

 

[Rabid Toilet]

JRPGs would get good again if they abandoned turn-based combat

Some of us prefer turn based combat in our RPGs.

 

[Rabid Toilet]

Many JRPGs seem to think that the characters' interactions with each-other (often semi-romantically) are as or more important than the actual story, which typically revolves around saving the world
Earth to Japan: Romance < Saving The World.

What about in games where romance helps the characters save the world? (Persona, Ar Tonelico, Sakura Wars)

 

[emeraldrafael]

I think its motly JRPGs, cause they have become bland and uninteresting, but thats how most games in any genre have become.

I go back to Persona 3 Fes and persona 4, as well as the SMT series. Those are all JRPGs, and P3F, P4, and SMT (especially Nocturne) are all great games. So I think you just kinda have to delve out of the popular, and go into the more less known.

Or just go with atlus. odds are, if their name is on it, its rather good.

 

[Greenhand]

Many JRPGs seem to think that the characters' interactions with each-other (often semi-romantically) are as or more important than the actual story, which typically revolves around saving the world
Earth to Japan: Romance < Saving The World.

What about in games where romance helps the characters save the world? (Persona, Ar Tonelico, Sakura Wars)

So long as the romance/friendship/unhealthy-emotional-attachment is not the primary focus of the game, everything is just groovy. If, however, the lovey-dovey starts to overshadow the main plot of Saving The World, the story usually begins to suffer and I, as a result, lose interest and often become child-stranglingly angry.

 

[Eric the Orange]

As migo said, most of the people who are tired of samey JRPGs are just tired of Final Fantasy and its clones.

There are plenty of JRPGs that are different, be it in story or gameplay.

Disgaea
Persona 3 and 4
Any Shin Megami Tensei game ever
Ar Tonelico
Mana Khemia
Sakura Wars
Record of Agarest War
Valkyria Chronicles
Kingdom Hearts
Fire Emblem
etc.

I've played a lot of those ('cept the ones I put in bold). Also as related to Ar tonelico there's Atelier Iris series (or in some cases atelier "other name"). Made by gust(also apparently related to Mana Khemia). Though I'll look up the others (sakura wars had a 5 year gap between JP and US release...).

But it's not Just FF that has fallen. I like Star Ocean 1&2 a lot, but 3&4 are kinda meh. Suikoden was a very promising series in the first 2, but I didn't like 3&4, 5 was kinda halfway decent though. Valkyrie Profile Is an amazing game, but the 2 spin off sequels from it weren't very impressive to me.

 

[Strife2GFAQs]

SMT is the holy grail in this generation. Whether it stays that way depends on how many times they re-release Persona 3...

Anyway, the problem with Anime Fantasy Adventure games (or JRPGs if you HAVE to call them that) is that they are steadfast in "their way." I know other genres have fallen into the "cutscene" trap, but these take the cake. Another problem I find is that FF still trots out that dead ass ATB system which is nothing more than straddling the fence between TB and Real Time. XII would have been tolerable had the real time actually been immediate (guns took forever). XIII failed miserably by reversing everything but allowing for no free roaming. When Kingdom Hearts, TWEWY, Dissidia (albeit a fighting game), and Crisis Core all showed that real time can work in the AFA genre, there's no excuse for Square to use ATB anymore. It goes back to something Yahtzee once said about a disconnect between story and gameplay, since they battles take place in an "alternate reality."

What I think they need more than anything is to attempt an open world game. I dare any Japanese developer to set a sandbox game in a "typical" setting for the genre, with real time battles and see what happens. That eliminates the problem of "dream world battles" and the grind we're so accoustomed to.