A quick question to the Americans of this site...

[The Man With the Soap]

"we got those lobsterbacks to stop taxing us"

who was that?
you mean the British?
didnt we give you cheap, high quality tea so you wouldnt blow all your money on smuggled shite, which you then threw in the sea, because 'that was how we'd START taxing you'?
yes... i believe you did.
then you got pissy about us giving canada to the french to stop a war.
(i learn about 'merica from Cracked.com okay?)

See, what you don't realize, is that at the Boston Tea Party, we didn't actually mean it as an insult to y'all. We just wanted to make a lot of sweet iced-tea. We were gonna pour the sugar from the next merchant vessel over into the harbor as well. We were all set to float an iceberg in and everything, but then the war broke out, and the party was cancelled. Sweet iced-tea is a classic American drink!

 

[RamirezDoEverything]

So I was just watching that 70's show and a special thanks giving episode was on and it got me thinking, does "thanks giving" and "independence day" kind of clash ...?

I mean, 1 is celebrating leaving British rule and the other is kind of about about slaughtering the natives (as far as I understand it). Have I misunderstood or is it kind of "yay we got our own way!"?

EDIT: the bit below this is a joke! I know you all don't celebrate every holiday, for example: I doubt many people celebrate Kwanzaa besides black people.

Also, looking on wiki at your holidays ... do you guys have ANY days in work? You have a flag day, Women's Equality Day, National Dog Day, Washington's Birthday (what about the other 30 odd presidents you have had?) just to name a few ...

Thanksgiving is no longer celebrated for Indian/Pilgrim relations, it's celebrated to whore ourselves out to stores and stuff our faces with family.

Independence Day is Independence Day, the day we got our way.

We get like... 3 holidays off anyway.

 

[Snooder]

I never got this. Why would the mascot for people against an institution of any kind be the man who was trying to put Catholics into power in Britain by blowing up a government building?

Because of Alan Moore.

Basically, the Brits have this holiday called Guy Fawkes day. It's originally a celebration of the day some guy tried to blow up Parliament to install a Catholic puppet state, but failed. So they celebrate it by setting a scarecrow dressed as "Guy Fawkes" on fire and then shooting off a bunch of fireworks. Not sure if they still do that, I remember it feature heavily in my Enid Blyton books I read as a kid, but those were pretty old, written in the 70s.

Anyway, Alan Moore wrote V for Vendetta and in the graphic novel, V, the titular character, dresses in a Guy Fawkes costume and blows up stuff. Why the Guy Fawkes costume? Because in the very first comic, he blows up the House of Parliament, quotes the popular nursery rhyme about Guy Fawkes day, and does it on Guy Fawkes day. After that, I suspect he keeps the costume just to keep a coherent image.

 

[Jacco]

"we got those lobsterbacks to stop taxing us"

who was that?
you mean the British?
didnt we give you cheap, high quality tea so you wouldnt blow all your money on smuggled shite, which you then threw in the sea, because 'that was how we'd START taxing you'?
yes... i believe you did.
then you got pissy about us giving canada to the french to stop a war.
(i learn about 'merica from Cracked.com okay?)

Well, I learned it more like this

Brits fight the Seven Years' War in Europe, plus a little sideshow in the new world against the French and their native allies. It's a pricey war (the 7 years war, that is, not the French and Indian thing), and they decided to start taxing the Americans on stamps and tea and some other crap(since the British helped fight the war against the French to protect the colonies).

The Americans get all "you can't tax us without letting us send representatives to your Parliament," and throw a bunch of riots. The British withdraw most of the taxes, but to keep their "right to tax colonies," they keep the tea tax in effect.

But they send the East India Company into the Boston Harbor to undercut the smugglers you mentioned. Previously they had to sell to middlemen who then sold the tea to America, raising the prices, but some law allowed them to bypass the middlemen. There was still tax on the tea, but even with the tax, it was cheaper than smuggled tea.

The Americans got insulted at the attempted trick (cheaper, but still taxed, tea) and committed the famous act of property destruction known as the Boston Tea Party.

Thats the Sparknotes version. There was more to it than that. Neither side was completely innocent or completely guilty.

Also, it wasn't just about taxes. The British were starting to get a little heavy handed after the French and Indian War with everyone which was what caused the animosity toward the crown. It is my theory (and others I have seen) that had the British not been acting how they were, the tax increases would have been a non issue. Since they did, it gave the colonists something to rally around which eventually led to the Revolution.

Again, Sparknotes version. I took an entire semester class on pre-revolution colonial American and I'm still not completely sure I understand it all. haha

 

[dietpeachsnapple]

Thanksgiving was originally intended as a celebration for surviving the harsh conditions of our early colonies.

Now its just a big "fuel-up" feast in honor of the "True" holiday, Black Friday.

Your first point, poignant, and effective.

Your second point, horrible, and distressing.

 

[WeAreStevo]

Also, looking on wiki at your holidays ... do you guys have ANY days in work? You have a flag day, Women's Equality Day, National Dog Day, Washington's Birthday (what about the other 30 odd presidents you have had?) just to name a few ...

Yes, there are a shlode of holidays in the States, but we don't get them all off of work.

The only major ones we get off are Labor day, Presidents day, Memorial day, MLK Jr. Day and major holidays (xmas, thanksgiving, 4th of July, New years).

Aside from that, it's simply "observed."

OT: Growing up, I was told in school that Thanksgiving is celebrated because of the year when the indians (see also: indigenous peoples) apparently "helped" the colonists get through the winter.

However, much like Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc. the original intention of the holiday has become something completely different from what it is now. Now it's a time for turkey and family.

 

[Zen Toombs]

[Thanksgiving is] just a big "fuel-up" feast in honor of the "True" holiday, Black Friday.

+1 point. Spend it wisely. ^_^

On Topic- no, I don't really see how thanksgiving and independence day contradictory. Independence day celebrates America gaining its independence, and on Thanksgiving we symbolically give thanks to those who gave our ancestors food to help our ancestors to survive[sup]1[/sup], allowing us to be here today.

[sup]1[/sup] Which we paid back in BLOOD

 

[Sacman]

You misunderstand... thanks giving is just like every other holiday... a piece of corporate propaganda to sell more crap... but on a deeper level for the people its an excuse to get drunk and eat a lot...<.<

 

[dyre]

"we got those lobsterbacks to stop taxing us"

who was that?
you mean the British?
didnt we give you cheap, high quality tea so you wouldnt blow all your money on smuggled shite, which you then threw in the sea, because 'that was how we'd START taxing you'?
yes... i believe you did.
then you got pissy about us giving canada to the french to stop a war.
(i learn about 'merica from Cracked.com okay?)

Well, I learned it more like this

Brits fight the Seven Years' War in Europe, plus a little sideshow in the new world against the French and their native allies. It's a pricey war (the 7 years war, that is, not the French and Indian thing), and they decided to start taxing the Americans on stamps and tea and some other crap(since the British helped fight the war against the French to protect the colonies).

The Americans get all "you can't tax us without letting us send representatives to your Parliament," and throw a bunch of riots. The British withdraw most of the taxes, but to keep their "right to tax colonies," they keep the tea tax in effect.

But they send the East India Company into the Boston Harbor to undercut the smugglers you mentioned. Previously they had to sell to middlemen who then sold the tea to America, raising the prices, but some law allowed them to bypass the middlemen. There was still tax on the tea, but even with the tax, it was cheaper than smuggled tea.

The Americans got insulted at the attempted trick (cheaper, but still taxed, tea) and committed the famous act of property destruction known as the Boston Tea Party.

Thats the Sparknotes version. There was more to it than that. Neither side was completely innocent or completely guilty.

Also, it wasn't just about taxes. The British were starting to get a little heavy handed after the French and Indian War with everyone which was what caused the animosity toward the crown. It is my theory (and others I have seen) that had the British not been acting how they were, the tax increases would have been a non issue. Since they did, it gave the colonists something to rally around which eventually led to the Revolution.

Again, Sparknotes version. I took an entire semester class on pre-revolution colonial American and I'm still not completely sure I understand it all. haha

Yeah, high school history classes tend to teach the Sparknotes version of everything. I'm more interested in Post-WWII Middle Eastern history anyway. Couldn't summon up enough interest to take a class on colonial America, lol

I'm sure there were a number of reasons why the colonists started to dislike the British (I recall they won some fort during the war but the British gave it back to the French or something), but I'd say as a rule of thumb, people who revolt against British colonial rule are generally more in the right than their British overlords.

 

[Iggy Sent Me]

Well... no one really cares about us once being under British rule. No one has for probably over 100 years. Hell, no one even says "Independence Day" very much either; it's usually just "The Fourth of July". The general attitude for this one is more "iWanna see fireworks". As for Thanksgiving... believe it or not, the colonists and the Native Americans were once on good terms. For brief periods. Thanksgiving was originally coined in the spirit of this, when the two groups would get together, eat, drink, and be merry. So it's pretty much the opposite, but a lot of people don't actually know this, because that's just how holidays work. If you asked me about the history of Valentine's Day, I could only tell you there was a guy named St. Valentine who was apparently cool enough to get a holiday. The reason why was lost long ago, to me and many others at least.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Hey Brits. Guess what.

YOU slaughtered the natives of North America. (Before we took the job over later.) If you open up a history book from time to time, you'll notice that the US used to be a British Colony.

You're welcome for the knowledge I just shared with you.

Hehe, no. Dipshit. It was you americans.

It was both, actually. And the Spanish.

The French were the only ones who didn't see the Indians and immediately go 'KILL THEM ALL/TAKE THEIR GOLD'. (Technically the Spanish and British didn't either. The Spanish waited until the aboriginals willingly offered their gold before killing them all and the British waited until the aboriginals helped establish their colonies before killing them all.)

Edit: Don't get me wrong, though. Americans were the worst of the lot with the Spanish in close second.

Manifest Destiny, bitches!

 

[Blondi3]

Someone needs to redefine the word 'Holiday.' Or we need to create a whole new word for most of this nonsense.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Those other "holidays" aren't so much "holidays" as days with their own names. We don't get out of work or school for them. Pretty much the only actual "holidays" we observe where I live are Christmas, Thanksgiving, Labor Day, and the 4th of July, and people who work in the Fast Food or Groceries sector don't even really get those.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Hey Brits. Guess what.

YOU slaughtered the natives of North America. (Before we took the job over later.) If you open up a history book from time to time, you'll notice that the US used to be a British Colony.

You're welcome for the knowledge I just shared with you.

Hehe, no. Dipshit. It was you americans.

It was both, actually. And the Spanish.

The French were the only ones who didn't see the Indians and immediately go 'KILL THEM ALL/TAKE THEIR GOLD'. (Technically the Spanish and British didn't either. The Spanish waited until the aboriginals willingly offered their gold before killing them all and the British waited until the aboriginals helped establish their colonies before killing them all.)

Edit: Don't get me wrong, though. Americans were the worst of the lot with the Spanish in close second.

Manifest Destiny, bitches!

Well, the Spanish did used the aboriginals a lot for slave labor and sexytimes. The largest populations of "Native Americans" alive today are the populations of Mexico, Central and South America. Makes you wonder, is it better to be mostly slaughtered and then get the right to run incredibly lucrative casinos with little interference, or to mostly survive with poor living conditions the entire way through.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Hey Brits. Guess what.

YOU slaughtered the natives of North America. (Before we took the job over later.) If you open up a history book from time to time, you'll notice that the US used to be a British Colony.

You're welcome for the knowledge I just shared with you.

Hehe, no. Dipshit. It was you americans.

It was both, actually. And the Spanish.

The French were the only ones who didn't see the Indians and immediately go 'KILL THEM ALL/TAKE THEIR GOLD'. (Technically the Spanish and British didn't either. The Spanish waited until the aboriginals willingly offered their gold before killing them all and the British waited until the aboriginals helped establish their colonies before killing them all.)

Edit: Don't get me wrong, though. Americans were the worst of the lot with the Spanish in close second.

Manifest Destiny, bitches!

Well, the Spanish did used the aboriginals a lot for slave labor and sexytimes. The largest populations of "Native Americans" alive today are the populations of Mexico, Central and South America. Makes you wonder, is it better to be mostly slaughtered and then get the right to run incredibly lucrative casinos with little interference, or to mostly survive with poor living conditions the entire way through.

I would take the casinos. It's kind of like the slavery thing...that all happened hundreds of years ago. I.E. not directly affecting me. So it's like all the payoff without any of the suffering. Works for me.

 

[BlackStar42]

Hey Brits. Guess what.

YOU slaughtered the natives of North America. (Before we took the job over later.) If you open up a history book from time to time, you'll notice that the US used to be a British Colony.

You're welcome for the knowledge I just shared with you.

A little. Then you took the job over and killed more than we ever did.

 

[omega 616]

Also there are only 46 states, you have a few commonwealths ... such as Pennsylvania. The more you know ...

See, now that's troll-bating. You know there are 50 states and then a handful of territories etc., but you insist on pretending there are 46. Pennsylvania, though fully called the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, is an American state. A state is a governed body, such as a province, kingdom, or even some cities, such as the Vatican. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is a State that is a part of a larger federation of states, beholden to the federal government.

DAMN YOU TROLL!!!!

How is that troll baiting? It is just pointing out a little known fact that I only know of 'cos of a programme called QI. So I thought I would share the knowledge.

Also, looking on wiki at your holidays ... do you guys have ANY days in work? You have a flag day, Women's Equality Day, National Dog Day, Washington's Birthday (what about the other 30 odd presidents you have had?) just to name a few ...

Not all of our Holidays are days off, we have days of observance, which is essentially saying "Hey you! Think about this briefly for a few minutes before getting the f*** back to work!" Which, barring the work part, isn't much different than days off...

Where did I say "holiday = time off"? I just said you had them, not that anybody celebrated them.