A reflection; is Overwatch a good GAME?

[Dirty Hipsters]

I quit playing due to the Roadhog nerf and Doomfist being used as a replacement to Roadhog's one-hit-kill ability; I didn't want Roadhog replaced with a new one-hit-killer I wanted to continue enjoying my favorite character. Also Pharah is really weak I'm surprised anyone bothers maining her; surprised she hasn't been buffed really. Shit damage output combined with shit health and the strong point of her character is knock-back that more often than not doesn't make a difference unless you have just the right map at just the right location. Anyway, I am mad on a personal level at Jeff Kaplan for ruining a character so blatantly. I do not believe for a moment Jeff remotely understands the thought that went into Roadhog's character and why his gameplay abilities were good; if he really did then he wouldn't have let that stupid nerf slide.

You know, I'm really happy with how butt-hurt you are about this. Roadhog was a very low skill character that was way too easy to play in an incredibly safe manner. He was a low skill cap counter to a bunch of high skill heroes and I'm really happy that that the people who mained him are now quitting the game because they can't deal with having to put actual effort in.

I didn't think he needed as drastic a nerf as he got, but MAN, it feels really satisfying that his ability to solo got so completely obliterated after he's been such a broken mess for so long.

His hook used to go through solid objects man. THROUGH SOLID FUCKING OBJECTS. The rest of us had to put up with that crap for almost a year, now we get to enjoy him being useless for a time and I for one welcome the change.

So you not only believe the nerf was bad, but believe it is causing Roadhog mains to quit the game?

I believe that you quit the game. Which considering you don't really seem to understand the game can only be a good thing.

 

[Epyc Wynn]

I quit playing due to the Roadhog nerf and Doomfist being used as a replacement to Roadhog's one-hit-kill ability; I didn't want Roadhog replaced with a new one-hit-killer I wanted to continue enjoying my favorite character. Also Pharah is really weak I'm surprised anyone bothers maining her; surprised she hasn't been buffed really. Shit damage output combined with shit health and the strong point of her character is knock-back that more often than not doesn't make a difference unless you have just the right map at just the right location. Anyway, I am mad on a personal level at Jeff Kaplan for ruining a character so blatantly. I do not believe for a moment Jeff remotely understands the thought that went into Roadhog's character and why his gameplay abilities were good; if he really did then he wouldn't have let that stupid nerf slide.

You know, I'm really happy with how butt-hurt you are about this. Roadhog was a very low skill character that was way too easy to play in an incredibly safe manner. He was a low skill cap counter to a bunch of high skill heroes and I'm really happy that that the people who mained him are now quitting the game because they can't deal with having to put actual effort in.

I didn't think he needed as drastic a nerf as he got, but MAN, it feels really satisfying that his ability to solo got so completely obliterated after he's been such a broken mess for so long.

His hook used to go through solid objects man. THROUGH SOLID FUCKING OBJECTS. The rest of us had to put up with that crap for almost a year, now we get to enjoy him being useless for a time and I for one welcome the change.

So you not only believe the nerf was bad, but believe it is causing Roadhog mains to quit the game?

I believe that you quit the game. Which considering you don't really seem to understand the game can only be a good thing.

I have had for a long time now a sophisticated understanding of Overwatch and every individual character. Was never terribly good at playing the game though; even trying my best I could never get even an average score in competitive. With Roadhog though at least that was something for me as a player to enjoy. For once having a character that was simplistic in their design compared to all the other convoluted characters, actually motivated me to stick with the game. Mercy is simplistic too but her whole gameplay amounts to tapping the fly button and holding the heal button so she isn't actually engaging. Roadhog kept things simple while simultaneously keeping the game engaging and that's why he was a well-made character. Now his simplistic style of offense is gone and instead you have an idiotic shotgun spamming technique that adds nothing new to the game.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I quit playing due to the Roadhog nerf and Doomfist being used as a replacement to Roadhog's one-hit-kill ability; I didn't want Roadhog replaced with a new one-hit-killer I wanted to continue enjoying my favorite character. Also Pharah is really weak I'm surprised anyone bothers maining her; surprised she hasn't been buffed really. Shit damage output combined with shit health and the strong point of her character is knock-back that more often than not doesn't make a difference unless you have just the right map at just the right location. Anyway, I am mad on a personal level at Jeff Kaplan for ruining a character so blatantly. I do not believe for a moment Jeff remotely understands the thought that went into Roadhog's character and why his gameplay abilities were good; if he really did then he wouldn't have let that stupid nerf slide.

You know, I'm really happy with how butt-hurt you are about this. Roadhog was a very low skill character that was way too easy to play in an incredibly safe manner. He was a low skill cap counter to a bunch of high skill heroes and I'm really happy that that the people who mained him are now quitting the game because they can't deal with having to put actual effort in.

I didn't think he needed as drastic a nerf as he got, but MAN, it feels really satisfying that his ability to solo got so completely obliterated after he's been such a broken mess for so long.

His hook used to go through solid objects man. THROUGH SOLID FUCKING OBJECTS. The rest of us had to put up with that crap for almost a year, now we get to enjoy him being useless for a time and I for one welcome the change.

So you not only believe the nerf was bad, but believe it is causing Roadhog mains to quit the game?

I believe that you quit the game. Which considering you don't really seem to understand the game can only be a good thing.

I have had for a long time now a sophisticated understanding of Overwatch and every individual character. Was never terribly good at playing the game though; even trying my best I could never get even an average score in competitive. With Roadhog though at least that was something for me as a player to enjoy. For once having a character that was simplistic in their design compared to all the other convoluted characters, actually motivated me to stick with the game. Mercy is simplistic too but her whole gameplay amounts to tapping the fly button and holding the heal button so she isn't actually engaging. Roadhog kept things simple while simultaneously keeping the game engaging and that's why he was a well-made character. Now his simplistic style of offense is gone and instead you have an idiotic shotgun spamming technique that adds nothing new to the game.

Clearly what you mean by engaging is that you got the maximum amount of kills by making the minimum amount of effort. That's what roadhog always was, and why people who didn't play roadhog hated him. He was to overwatch what camping is to call of duty or halo. He has a very safe and passive style of play where you are rewarded with easy kills for making the minimum amount of effort.

He absolutely needed a nerf, something to force him to be more active. I just don't think that they nerfed the correct things about him. When people were talking about a low skill ceiling, it was roadhog. The size of his hook's hitbox is comedic, and I think that that's the biggest problem with him. If the hook hitbox was smaller (like 1/4 of the size it currently is) you'd have to actually learn to aim with it, to track targets correctly, and you'd get way fewer insanely long range hooks, meaning that roadhog would have to be more active in pursuing and engaging targets rather than getting to sit behind his team randomly throwing out hooks. In that kind of scenario the one shot kill would be much more acceptable, since it would be your own fault for getting close enough to him to give him an easy hook opportunity.

That would be fair, and it would actually take some skill to get the long range hooks, and get picks on the enemy back-line.

The reason I actually really like Doomfist and how he has supplanted roadhog's role is because his playstyle is much more active, and Doomfist actually puts himself in danger when he's going for his one shots. There is an active risk/reward system with him which did not exist with roadhog. Roadhog had no risk.

 

[Zhukov]

I have had for a long time now a sophisticated understanding of Overwatch and every individual character.

Hahaha.

No you don't. Not even close. If you think the characters are convoluted then your understanding of them is terrible. They're all fairly simple and can be summed up in a few short sentences.

Was never terribly good at playing the game though; even trying my best I could never get even an average score in competitive.

Now that I believe.

With Roadhog though at least that was something for me as a player to enjoy. For once having a character that was simplistic in their design compared to all the other convoluted characters, actually motivated me to stick with the game. Mercy is simplistic too but her whole gameplay amounts to tapping the fly button and holding the heal button so she isn't actually engaging. Roadhog kept things simple while simultaneously keeping the game engaging and that's why he was a well-made character. Now his simplistic style of offense is gone and instead you have an idiotic shotgun spamming technique that adds nothing new to the game.

Translation from Bullshit to English:

You're mediocre or bad at the game but Roadhog allowed you to easily get kills because of the massive hitbox on his hook and easy one-shot follow-ups. The massive self-heal probably didn't hurt either.

 

[Epyc Wynn]

I have had for a long time now a sophisticated understanding of Overwatch and every individual character.

Hahaha.

No you don't. Not even close. If you think the characters are convoluted then your understanding of them is terrible. They're all fairly simple and can be summed up in a few short sentences.

Was never terribly good at playing the game though; even trying my best I could never get even an average score in competitive.

Now that I believe.

With Roadhog though at least that was something for me as a player to enjoy. For once having a character that was simplistic in their design compared to all the other convoluted characters, actually motivated me to stick with the game. Mercy is simplistic too but her whole gameplay amounts to tapping the fly button and holding the heal button so she isn't actually engaging. Roadhog kept things simple while simultaneously keeping the game engaging and that's why he was a well-made character. Now his simplistic style of offense is gone and instead you have an idiotic shotgun spamming technique that adds nothing new to the game.

Translation from Bullshit to English:

You're mediocre or bad at the game but Roadhog allowed you to easily get kills because of the massive hitbox on his hook and easy one-shot follow-ups. The massive self-heal probably didn't hurt either.

I have watched many videos per each character. I have looked at multiple guides on how best to use them on certain heroes and before the nerf regularly practiced these techniques. When I say I am not terribly good at the game, that is not the cue for you to double down and mock a flaw in my abilities; that is an admittance that even with tons of practice and research you can still be bad at that convoluted game. Roadhog was simple and focused on the one part of the game I actually enjoyed: the offense. Now we have Doomfist who's just a mix of Kratos from God of War with the one-hit-kill abilities of Roadhog.

I will further say your ethics in forum communication could use some work. Calling my honesty bullshit and only believing whenever I mention a flaw on my part really speaks volumes on yourself.

 

[Fappy]

Haven't played much since the Doomfist patch. How was Roadhog nerfed exactly, and does it make it even easier for Mei to solo him? XD

 

[IceForce]

Haven't played much since the Doomfist patch. How was Roadhog nerfed exactly, and does it make it even easier for Mei to solo him? XD

Roadhog's gun basically does no damage, now. Or at least, that's how it feels.

Well okay, on a technical level the dps output is the same as it was before, but when put into practice his hook+gun combo is basically useless and actually makes it HARDER to kill someone.

They reduced his damage by about a third, and increased his fire rate by the same amount, to keep his dps the same. But this means his hook+gun combo is generally not a one-shot anymore (YMMV, it still one-shots squishies who are not at full health, and Tracer).

The problem here is that if you hook someone in and don't manage to one-shot them, you've actually just made it HARDER for yourself to kill them, because they'll start jumping and juking around you.
Anyone who's played this game will know how difficult it is to hit someone who's literally right in your face, point blank range, when they're dancing and bunny-hopping all around you. This is the new hell for Roadhog players.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've played Hog since his nerf, but I can confirm that with the new Hog I get more kills when I don't use the hook and just shoot at things instead. As I say, the hook is basically useless now and just makes your job harder.

 

[IceForce]

When I say I am not terribly good at the game, that is not the cue for you to double down and mock a flaw in my abilities; that is an admittance that even with tons of practice and research you can still be bad at that convoluted game.

That's not a failure of the game. Rather, philosophically speaking, it's a failure of the common belief that "practice makes perfect".

"Practice makes perfect" is a philosophy that I strongly disagree with, because it implies that if someone spends enough time at their local football field, they will eventually become the next David Beckham.
In reality, everyone has a 'skill plateau' that they will eventually reach and go no further, and for some people that plateau is higher (or lower) than others.

Roadhog was simple and focused on the one part of the game I actually enjoyed: the offense. Now we have Doomfist who's just a mix of Kratos from God of War with the one-hit-kill abilities of Roadhog.

Then why don't you just play Doomfist, then. Especially if you enjoy one-shots that most of the time cannot be stopped/blocked.

I will further say your ethics in forum communication could use some work. Calling my honesty bullshit and only believing whenever I mention a flaw on my part really speaks volumes on yourself.

That's not what "ethics" means.

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

You're wrong, and it's because of one basic thing you missed;

Aiming on the 3D plane, where Pharah operates, is much harder than the 2D-Limited 3D plane where everyone else is.

Except when I'm standing on top of a building, or on one of Volskaya's floating platforms.

Or jumping off of a launch pad on Oasis.

Pharah is hardly the only character who exists on a 3D plane; anyone else who is smart enough to find the high ground also exists on a 3D plane. It's not very hard to look up.

Shooting up is a different matter, but that should say more about the sorry state of Widowmaker than anything else. Pharah is strong because her counters are weak; this is also why Winston and D.Va are so much more popular now. Roadhog brutally punished dive heroes; without him, there's no one who can quickly take gigantic chunks out of a dive tank's health while their team finishes them off.

OT: Overwatch is mediocre. It has strengths (simplicity, the best art and character design in the whole industry), and weaknesses (pathetic balance, poor matchmaking, Blizzard's inability to admit that they've made mistakes and revert changes). It is not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, but it certainly wouldn't have won all of those GotY awards in a year with some real competition.

 

[Epyc Wynn]

It's honestly weird hearing about how pharah is overpowered, yet every friend I have that plays competitively talks about how absolutely useless she is since her flight speed is so slow that even the most mediocre mccree can down her as soon as she takes off.

Or how the dev team added in her death scream to her ult cry since those two sounds are usually heard at the same time


Overwatch's problem isn't that blizzard is bad at balancing. It's that they have to balance for two games. Casual and competitive

Additionally they are also quite bad at balancing.

 

[Epyc Wynn]

It's honestly weird hearing about how pharah is overpowered, yet every friend I have that plays competitively talks about how absolutely useless she is since her flight speed is so slow that even the most mediocre mccree can down her as soon as she takes off.

Or how the dev team added in her death scream to her ult cry since those two sounds are usually heard at the same time


Overwatch's problem isn't that blizzard is bad at balancing. It's that they have to balance for two games. Casual and competitive

Additionally they are also quite bad at balancing.

they are

but the roadhog nerf was a good balance

It was a good balance insofar as making his pick-rate across all tiers of play decrease and removing a core part of his design, is balance. However that would not reasonably be called balance, but can reasonably be called imbalance.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Overwatch's problem isn't that blizzard is bad at balancing. It's that they have to balance for two games. Casual and competitive

You only ever have to balance for competitive as long as there's characters/playstyles that require lower skill like say the shotgun in a shooter vs a sniper rifle or support/healer type characters that don't need the gun skills to be good. If there aren't those options then it's not a well-designed game to begin with.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Well shit, if it isn't one, I'm not sure how to account for all the fun I've had playing it.

Not to mention that if it's not a good game, it's not exactly going to be a good anything. Overwatch doesn't have much else going for it beyond that.

Much of what you're talking about seems to be about it being poorly balanced. I've definitely had problems with the balance, but I play games predominantly for fun instead of competition and it's rare that the balance issues are bad enough that it stops being fun.

 

[Epyc Wynn]

Well shit, if it isn't one, I'm not sure how to account for all the fun I've had playing it.

Not to mention that if it's not a good game, it's not exactly going to be a good anything. Overwatch doesn't have much else going for it beyond that.

Much of what you're talking about seems to be about it being poorly balanced. I've definitely had problems with the balance, but I play games predominantly for fun instead of competition and it's rare that the balance issues are bad enough that it stops being fun.

I am glad you have that mindset; quite refreshing with all the meta-humping competitive people misrepresenting the normal Overwatch community with all their over-the-top complaints about literally nothing.

But in this case Roadhog was so badly changed that it actually does noticeably lower how much fun you have especially if you liked Roadhog's main mechanic of hook-and-kill.

 

[Fappy]

I think people tend to underestimate the difficulty of balancing games like this. Sure, it's never going to be perfect, but is any competitive game perfectly balanced? At the very least, nearly ever character is usable in competitive, even if a handful of others are dominating in a given season.

Many other similarly popular games have even bigger balancing issues, especially MOBAs. Last time I played LoL 60% of the the 100+ champion roster was hopelessly outclassed by the other 40%.

 

[DaCosta]

I think people tend to underestimate the difficulty of balancing games like this.

I don't think that's the problem.

The problem is that most of the people who think balancing is easy see it as "the classes I like are OP/not-OP" = balanced/unbalanced, respectively.

 

[IceForce]

I'm not sure how Wynn still thinks this is a "convoluted" game.

Just play Soldier 76, he was designed to be as easy as possible for players to pick up and play, especially any players who have come from other multiplayer shooters. He even has a noob tube.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I'm not sure how Wynn still thinks this is a "convoluted" game.

Just play Soldier 76, he was designed to be as easy as possible for players to pick up and play, especially any players who have come from other multiplayer shooters. He even has a noob tube.

Yeah, but you have to aim with him and the helix rockets don't instantly kill people so it's too hard for Wynn to "be engaged."