A Response to Extra Credits "Learning from Other M."

[DocBalance]

snip

I will never, EVER be persuaded to care about anything in that comic. Ever. It's extra-canonical, in my opinion. I work with what's in the games, not what's outside them. I don't care about the Metroid Comic, the Halo Novels, the Star Wars expanded universe, etc. I work with main canon only, as a professional standard. I only very begrudgingly acknowledge the prime series as part of the main time-line rather than an offshoot of splitting timelines.

Yes, she accomplishes nothing by killing Ridley. Stopping his operations? His operations didn't kill her entire planets, and it's not a to-do sheet that's trying to kill her. It's him. Eventually, she's going to die, be it by his hand or by old age, and all she will have done is set him back by a certain number of years. In her eyes, he's just become immortal. That's damn scary to contemplate.

Now, you seem rather opposed to the idea that Samus suffers from survivors guilt and wants to die. If that's the case, please give some psychological reasons why, or name one point, even in the silly comic, that she was deterred from a path of self-destruction and death. She's a trained killer, you said so yourself.

You contradict yourself: You say in response to the Ridley section that she was trained SPECIFICALLY to kill space pirates, but then in response to her being a trained killer you say she was only trained to protect herself, not hunt space pirates. Which is it?

Did Adam specifically tell her not to show up at the ceremony in her suit and shoot an armed combatant? Because he does specifically order her to keep the varia off, and that's very critical information when building a psych profile.

 

[Rauten]

I will never, EVER be persuaded to care about anything in that comic.

Then you have no business talking about what you think Samus should be. The comic was made by Nintendo themselves, therefore, and I quote you, "We don't like that information, but it's truth".

True, I did commit a contradiction, but if that's your answer to the comic, I won't bother trying to amend it.

 

[Shadowsafter]

[No, Samus APPEARS bad-ass.] (I've forgotten how to quote properly)

Hold on a fuckmothering second, I didn't even finish your response after reading this.
You claim that someone who burns entire fucking space pirate ships (not even pirate, SPACE PIRATE) and beats the shit out of evil metroid creatures as part of her day job is simply appearing badass?
That's like saying Master Chief only APPEARS human, and that he could be an elite despite his appearance, actions and allegiance. WTF ARE YOU SAYING.

 

[DocBalance]

I will never, EVER be persuaded to care about anything in that comic.

Then you have no business talking about what you think Samus should be. The comic was made by Nintendo themselves, therefore, and I quote you, "We don't like that information, but it's truth".

True, I did commit a contradiction, but if that's your answer to the comic, I won't bother trying to amend it.

Really? So, when was the last time something from the comic affected one of the games, again? 'Cause I'll let you in on a secret: Other M was made by Nintendo as well. If there are huge contradictions, then one of them must be non-canon. I prefer to think of the comic as non-canon, since it's been around for ages and yet isn't available in any official capacity and never was outside of Japan, and hasn't received any acknowledgement in the games. So, prove to me that Nintendo cares, and I'll revise my opinion of the comic. Prove that the comic being legitimate actually changes anything, and maybe I'll consider it as more than a cheap cash-in on incredibly lucrative Japanese manga scene.

[No, Samus APPEARS bad-ass.] (I've forgotten how to quote properly)

Hold on a fuckmothering second, I didn't even finish your response after reading this.
You claim that someone who burns entire fucking space pirate ships (not even pirate, SPACE PIRATE) and beats the shit out of evil metroid creatures as part of her day job is simply appearing badass?
That's like saying Master Chief only APPEARS human, and that he could be an elite despite his appearance, actions and allegiance. WTF ARE YOU SAYING.

See, if you'd bothered reading the rest of it, you'd know exactly what I was saying. Go back and do that and we'll try this again.

 

[Rauten]

Prove that the comic being legitimate actually changes anything, and maybe I'll consider it as more than a cheap cash-in on incredibly lucrative Japanese manga scene.

I've nothing to prove. The comic exists, it's done by Nintendo, it is legitimate. If you don't like it, too bad.
Difference with Other M? Easy: Nintendo doesn't think the comic was a bad idea.

Oh, and one more thing about Ridley: remember the Metroid Fusion encounter? remember her thoughts on it? On yeah. QUAKING IN HER BOOTS.

 

[DocBalance]

While a lot of what you said is true, it doesn't mean everything is.

Samus' mixture of over-dependence on her "man," Adam Malkovich, and her constant fears of facing the same enemies that get stronger once newly-resurrected, was understandable. It's just that Team Ninja went too far with the whole thing, and forgot to integrate it with her trademark independent-side from games before Other M.

People aren't just too weak or too strong, but rather a mixture of strengths and weaknesses. Superman's weakness may be kryptonite, but I consider his real weakness stemming from fears of seeing his own home-city of Metropolis burn to the ground, and his loved-ones like Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen get themselves brutally-murdered. His fears and desires for his home and loved-one's safeties are what made Superman (mostly his alter-ego, Clark Kent, though) what he is, not just his super-powers alone.

I also wrote a thread on how Sega should've portrayed Sonic the Hedgehog if they really wanted to tell a story in a Sonic game, let alone Sonic Adventure 1. Sonic the hedgehog has always been too "rad" and "edgy" for his own good, so I rewrote his character by portraying him as more compassionate (but not in a "Sonic '06" way) as well as more fearful. Like Samus with Malkovich and Superman with Lois and Jimmy, Sonic had friends that he swore to protect. Unfortunately, the weaker ones are almost always the ones who are kidnapped by Eggman, while the stronger ones are almost always tricked by said mad-scientist to combat him. This would leave Sonic in a really ugly dilemma that's worse than...

Spoiler

His death-scene in Sonic '06's final-storyline.

And the reason that dilemma's worse than what I put in the spoiler-tag is because at that point, Sonic has to make a difficult choice: Save his friends, or defeat Eggman. Normally, at that point, I'd have Sonic learn about depending on his friends and their abilities to help him defeat Eggman, which in-turn would mean putting them in danger to stop him as usual. But hey, at least it's better than the crap Sega would give us instead, right?

I even remembered creating Samus' new generation of heroes, known only as Lambda Squad. Sure, I could've done a better job with Richard, Jenny, Joseph, Billy, Marianna, Alexis, and in the sequel, Eric and Katrina, all of whom are members of Lambda Squad. However, at least they're also a mixture of strengths (namely their military fighting-styles) and weaknesses (namely their dependence on Samus, similar to her dependence on Adam Malkovich, as well as each other). At least, that's what I think.

However, Samus was too weak and not strong in Other M. I may not like it when a character is flawless, but I also don't like it when said character is also stupid and useless, like Other M's portrayal of Samus.

Her character is only weak for a few key moments though. I think the problem is that we assume Samus is independent, when really she doesn't know how to properly interact with people. The Chozo were a very, very different race than Humans, and I don't think she ever truly adjusted.

Prove that the comic being legitimate actually changes anything, and maybe I'll consider it as more than a cheap cash-in on incredibly lucrative Japanese manga scene.

I've nothing to prove. The comic exists, it's done by Nintendo, it is legitimate. If you don't like it, too bad.
Difference with Other M? Easy: Nintendo doesn't think the comic was a bad idea.

Oh, and one more thing about Ridley: remember the Metroid Fusion encounter? remember her thoughts on it? On yeah. QUAKING IN HER BOOTS.

No, Nintendo doesn't use the Comic, so it's not a bad idea, it's just inconsequential. It's a non-thing, it doesn't even show up on their radar. Show me one place they've referenced it since its release, just one, and we'll talk.

In Metroid Fusion she was infected by an alien parasite and bonded to Metroid DNA. Plus, she didn't encounter Ridley in Fusion, she encountered an X-Parasite masquerading as him, which is a wholly different beast altogether.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

Meh. Good ideas in Other M handled poorly, coupled with the blind frothing nostalgia of a fanbase that for all the bitching it does, doesn't seem to know how they'd do it better had the task fallen to them. People have screamed loud enough, I think, to change the presentation of her character for the better come next game. One thing's for sure: the idea to characterize Samus is an absolutely excellent one and I hope it's done well next time, and NOT in the way that the worst and loudest of the fem-gamers, emasculated men, and mouthbreathing simpletons want.

But if it's not, I'll go back to not giving a shit about the stupid ass agenda-setting by the Politically Correct among us, the role-models that were never meant to be there, or the no-doubt poignant, heartfelt, long-upheld tradition of quality storytelling in Metroid.

Other M was an experiment. I'll dare say that if you let it ruin your perception of Samus after all the games she's been in, like I've heard some people profess in the past, you have no will of your own.

 

[kane.malakos]

If I might throw my hat into the ring here, I actually have a very different problem with Other M. One of the most brilliant things about Samus is her role as a strong, competent woman in video games. There is a definite reason that she's considered something of a feminist icon in gaming. She's independent, bad-ass, and the fact that she's a woman doesn't change that fact. In fact, that's one of the best things about Samus. The fact that she is a woman doesn't matter. I think that exploring her feminine side could work perfectly well, but the way it was handled in Other M was clumsy at best, horribly misguided at worst. This is a beloved strong female character, and they decide to make her completely dependent on and subservient to Adam. And that's the thing, it doesn't really matter that she has reasons for being that way. No matter what reasons they give, or that you can take from the story, it doesn't feel like Samus.
Also, coming back to Adam, we are told that Samus cares deeply about him. That's bad story-telling. Throughout the game, all we see of him is an unlikable, uncaring, douchebag. He could have been an interesting character, but we have to actually see why Samus cares about him if we're going to like him, not be told that she does.

 

[DocBalance]

A bunch of stuff

Nintendo hasn't used the comic in a game yet, because we've never had an origin story game for Samus.

Reason why the comic is canon and Other M is not now: Nintendo wrote the comic, stands by it, and approves of it. Nintendo did NOT write Other M, it was mostly collaborative between the cutscene makers and handled by Team Ninja. Nintendo may have provided the base, but they were the producers, not the writers. And Nintendo rejects the product now.

The fact that Nintendo says, "Comics are cannon, game is crap" is proof enough against you. They don't have to use it in a game, that's why it's a comic. It's not a Halo novel where it's handled by someone completely different. It was BY Nintendo. Simply ignoring it condenses your argument to petty whining on what you want it to be.

Samus doesn't appear badass, she is shown time and again to be so. Ridley died many times, so many in fact that any trauma she suffered from him would be pushed to the back of her mind. She had conquered all he had done to her, on many occasions. Psychologically, she would have to confront him many times, but would know she is strong enough to be beat him every time. Not piss her pants and have Nam flashbacks every time he popped up. If anything the fact that he is here unscathed and knowing that he is a clone would disassociate him to the trauma. There is no cruel intent that there would have been before. Ridley is just Ridley now, she's no longer facing the great pirate and murderer. She's torn him a new one so bad that they couldn't rebuild him a 45th time. Now it's just a clueless monster that looks like him.

Where are you chaps getting this "Nintendo Rejects Other: M" business? I've searched all around, and all I can find is a quote from Reggie saying that he was disappointed with the sales.

 

[Nolan Harris]

I do have to agree with this. Or it may just be that I can't formulate another answer for myself to justify Other M; but in my opinion, things like Story, Graphics, and Presentation are only bonuses. For example: if the game plays nicely, but has less than average graphics, no strike against it. If the graphics themselves are say, blurred, distorted, or overly pixelated, it's a problem that takes away from the experience. I think OM played rather nicely from a gameplay perspective. I found it fun. And really. Were the monologues THAT BAD? They didn't last long, and I found the one about Ian pretty interesting. It's not like you just couldn't listen to them or anything.

 

[bob1052]

There is a forum post for responses to that episode in the description below the episode.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

No offence, but you're reading into this too much. I get where your coming from, but from what I've read (I havent played the game, but I've read the plot on Wikipedia, and have heard a lot about it on online forums such as this site) it just seems like the developer didnt know what to do with the character. This is Team Ninja we're talking about, what you're getting from this is quite clearly beyond most developers, especially the inventors of jiggle physics. Samus is pretty much the best female character in games, Other M portrayed her as a whiny b*tch, deliberately or not, and ultimately listening to a whining b*tch ,with one of the worst voice actors I've ever heard (YouTube videos), monologuing for a few hours probably caused a lot of players' hard feelings towards the game and character. Or maybe I'm full of sh*t and your right.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

A bunch of stuff

Nintendo hasn't used the comic in a game yet, because we've never had an origin story game for Samus.

Sorry MaddestHatter or GreatBlasphemer, you're kind of wrong there. But I'm not attacking you so relax. We actually do have an Origin story for Samus, in the 2002 Metroid manga which was later referenced to a lot in Zero Mission. It also stands that Other M contradicts canon from the games themself.

 

[DocBalance]

Where are you chaps getting this "Nintendo Rejects Other: M" business? I've searched all around, and all I can find is a quote from Reggie saying that he was disappointed with the sales.

Because pride in sales is directly proportionate to pride in the result of the product?
Not liking what you've made and liking the sales are two very different things. I'm pretty sure if Reggie hated the game with every fiber of his being he'd still be happy it made money. Don't link the two.

And I'd say the exact same thing to you. I said he WASN'T happy about how the game sold. You seem to be taking that as him saying he wasn't happy with the game. Still need evidence that they didn't like it. Quite the opposite, I've got a quote for you:

?We believe that it could be, should be a million unit title. We?re not going to get there, not through the holiday. And we are doing a lot of thinking as to why. Because it?s a great game. The consumer reaction because of the quality has been strong. We?re doing a lot of thinking about why we didn?t get there. I think the marketing was strong, advertising was very good, the social media we did was very positive. [It's] getting close to half a million.?

?First off, [I have] nothing but the greatest respect for the development team. Mr. Sakamoto did a wonderful job. His partnership with us in promoting the game was stellar. Team Ninja [is] absolutely fabulous. I?m not going to sit here and criticize a style of the game, but have I read the same feedback that said, broadly, that the portrayal of Samus felt different than how the player in the past had internalized the character? I?ve heard and read the same feedback. Do I think it?s warranted or not? I?m not quite sure yet? I don?t yet believe that that is the driving factor to the performance of the game.?

- Nintendo of America president, Reggie Fils-Aime

There is a forum post for responses to that episode in the description below the episode.

And I posted this there. However, this was so gigantic that I didn't want to clutter up the thread itself with it.

Sorry MaddestHatter or GreatBlasphemer, you're kind of wrong there. But I'm not attacking you so relax. We actually do have an Origin story for Samus, in the 2002 Metroid manga which was later referenced to a lot in Zero Mission. It also stands that Other M contradicts canon from the games themself.

And what, specifically, does Other: M contradict in this comic? To be perfectly honest, I've never heard of it. I'd also like to know what canon Other: M contradicts in the games that is actually stated, not inferred by the player.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Are we now putting crappy game development and their down right retarded ideas to "she had a bad day"?
You really want to let this slide and tell them it's ok to do more like it?