a social experiment on racism
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Oh, I dunno, complaining about black people playing criminals is just as racist as actual racism, apparently.Vault101 said:
thaluikhain said:
That guy in particular has been doing this for decades. He worked undercover in the largest German newspaper, a really horrible tabloid, to uncover the bullshit happening there. He disuised himself as a Turkish worker in the 80s. He disuised himself as an Iranian worker in Japan to do a report in Japanese TV. He went undercover in a call-center pushing scams on people. He went undercover in a bread factory to report on the bullshit happening there.
He is a muckraker in the original sense of the world but he can be an asshole, too. Very sensationalist sometimes. And sometimes his methods are problematic as well because just disguising yourself as a black person doesn't let you experience life as a black person, only a tiny part of it. With that kind of research he showed only the shit people of colour have to wade through, not other, maybe even postive aspects. So in a way this research was also racist in itself. I just brought it up because it shows the problem of society not giving a shit when minorities talk about their plights.
Black people can't be racist? Do you even own a dictionary? Racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one?s own race is superior. THAT is racism. If you are from a certain race (doesn't matter which) and you hate another person because he is from another race. Then you are racist.V4Viewtiful said:
Black people can't be racist is one of the dumbest statements ever.
OT: Cool experiment. I wish they would do something like that based on european racism. Prejudices that foreign people have to deal with here. I would love the insight to be honest because I don't think I can imagine what it would be like. Then again, having two homes trashed because of foreign people renting it and being mugged only once in my life (by a foreigner) does tend to increase ones prejudice level. Too bad a few rotten apples ruin it for the rest. Goes both ways I think. Not every white person is racist.
I disagree. Or was The Cosby Show about a criminal family? Im really not going to list all the black actors and their non criminal roles. Fact is when you start out as an actor you play shitty roles. Look at Demolition Man, Wesley Snipes played Phoenix, a really great villian....is that racist to him? An if your talking about just black street thug characters, there have also been white actors playing street thug characters. For all you know, that black actor played that street thug the best, better than the other actors. But you could only believe that if you believe in the stereotype of black youth being criminals and judging them all by that.Vault101 said:
Actually, that isn't racism.iseko said:
A fact that even dictionaries haven't understood yet is that there are no different races inside the species homo sapiens. The whole theory that there are was a scam from the get go, pseudo-science influenced by cultural and religious bias.
Racism is the hate of something that is different than you, different culture, religion, ethnicity, skin colour, nationality etc. The word "race-ism" was just coined in an age when people didn't know better.
I recommend reading http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm
I sometimes forget that people like that exist. I have a hard time understanding the likes of them. Though I am sure I have bouts of hypocrisy myself since I'm only human.thaluikhain said:
Ok, I understand. There are a myriad of places and people that could use a strong technique like Jane Elliott's. It's funny how easily people forget about the problems of others (especially if they are part of a very small group), or latch onto illogical hatred to explain the problems they face. Then again, if one looks at the current political climate in the EU one should perhaps not be as surprised. Some people will look for any dumb excuse to hate someone else. Awareness is key in battling such behaviour. I was just saying that her rough methods could have the opposite effect of inducing antagonistic feelings or a false nation of offence by the recipients. It might muddle the ultimately noble message.RoonMian said:
No offence meant, but aren't you just arguing semantics now?RoonMian said:
There's a saying that's used around, "racism is prejudice plus power". Now, this is for a specific definition of racism (or other ism), the point being that things are very different when society is on your side.iseko said:
A white person who hates Asians, and a Japanese person who hate white people might have similar amounts of prejudice, but how it operates will be very different if they are in the US or Japan.
In that sense, black people (in the US or UK or Australia, say) can't be racist (in the same way that white people can).
Now, um...I'm, not that big on the movie scene, so I can only lost a handful of black actors from the top of my head (and only a handful of white ones, at that) and I don't actually recall any of them to be restricted to villain roles.Vault101 said:
Then again, there are actors who make entire careers on playing nothing but villains. And again, names escape me but there's that Slovenian-born guy who always plays some sort of an asshole psycho in TV series for example...
don't quote the dictionary, they categories the most popular meanings, not always original or accurate.iseko said:
like I said Racism is a system and a more accurate word is bigotry, Black people can't be racist for the simple fact that they don't control the system.
I should have clarified, Racism from black in the west isn't so because we can't hold back another race economically socially or lawfully. African nations though that can apply.
Without a system in place to enforce it racism is powerless.
Interesting point. But that is a matter of perspective. Racism is not accepted by society as is clearly shown in this thread. Yet the individual is still racist as often is experienced in daily life. The fact that the USA has a black president shows that their society no longer accepts the statement that black people are inferior. Yet black people still have to deal with daily life problems like lower wages and hate/bigotry. But if a black person calls "racism" and he gets media attention (society learns of it), then his aggressors are in for a heap of trouble. So who has the actual power in that scenario.thaluikhain said:
(I don't live in america. I'm from belgium so this media thing is kind of based on how it is like here. I don't know if it applies to the US)
Weird racial thing - or white guilt is a weird thing. The landlord sent his handy man (black guy) round to look at the paint work outside our house. So i was chatting with him and he was checking the peeling paint to check what the work will cost to fix. So he picked up the paint bits and said "Have you a bin i can put this in?" Where i live we have 3 bins, one for recycling is brown, the one for garden debris is green and the bin for everything else is black. So i said "stick it in the black one". He looked at me and said "black one?" and for a second my stomach dropped as i felt i offended him and was about to blurt out the reason etc An he said "just joking man" lol.
Now why is that we have such a reaction to that? That we automatically have that reaction even though there was no racism behind the comment. Im not a racist but even i had that feeling in my stomach that i may have said something offensive to that guy though logically i knew i didnt.
Anyone else had that?
Now why is that we have such a reaction to that? That we automatically have that reaction even though there was no racism behind the comment. Im not a racist but even i had that feeling in my stomach that i may have said something offensive to that guy though logically i knew i didnt.
Anyone else had that?
That isn't just semantics. When you say that racism is just hatred of different races you a) oversimplify the issue and b) you perpetuate the false belief that there are biological dividing lines between human beings that in a lot of heads are the actual foundations for hate and discrimination. Also saying that what I described was just "discimination" is jumped waaayyy too short as racism has especially in modern times (since the 20th century) evolved into something that goes far beyond glaring differences like skin colour. The anti-semitism of the Nazis was racism. Yet they had to force Jews to wear a star on their clothes because just by looking at them you couldn't tell "proper" Germans and "un-German" Jews apart. Today there's loads of cultural racism about how we have to parent like Asians do with unemotional punishing etc. because of notions that Asians are academically superior and stuff.iseko said:
Originally it was an experiment. Originally though, she just grouped her kids by eye color and gave them some stereotypes about eye color and watched to see what happened and they developed eye color based bigotry all on their own. Then she switched the groups (because the goal was to teach her all white class about race).Xeorm said:
Nowadays, since it's less social experiment and more "teach white folks about racism", she actually occasionally has to throw people out for either calling her out or simply failing to be bigoted enough. That's also the reason why it's always and only brown-eyes being the superior ones these days, as opposed to the original experiment in which she switched who was on top. Also why there are structured activities with actual explicit systematic bias, rather than leaving it to the subjects to create bias.
I can and will quote the dictionary because that is the official meaning of the word. If we can start discussing topics by changing the meaning of words then I am going to have a lot of fun with this.V4Viewtiful said:
Not that I don't understand what you mean though. But what you are saying is just a result of racism of white people. The result should not be confused with the cause. Which is what you are doing by conveniently changing the definition of the word racism. Black people can be racist.
...Or black people, for that matter. She'd have a point if we had lynched someone for being black in the last ten, twenty, or even fifty years or so. We haven't, because everyone knows it's wrong to do that.shootthebandit said:
"It's to show that you're a product of a racist system"... to what end? It's generally accepted that more or less all massive racists are older and part of the tail end of the current system. Social change is good, but we're still harping on the issue even though we've not given it adequate time to set. I bet you that systemic racism will be GONE in thirty years, even if we do nothing else for the movement now. By the same token, it WON'T go away before that, even if we do push the issue. You have to let the system clean itself.
But if you want to keep pushing the issue, then...
Racism is wrong on a conceptual level, not a higher level. We should be attacking racism in any form and not focusing on subcategories.thaluikhain said: