About sport titles, EA and ignorance..

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JourneyThroughHell

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I buy a sports game every time it goes through a noticeable change. If you say that FIFA 10 and 11 are the same thing, you are wrong.

That's why I have NHL 09, but FIFA 11.

So, yeah, you're right.
 

SoulChaserJ

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Don't worry, I play madden and catch shit for it all the time. But buying Call of Duty after Call of Duty after Call of Duty....that's just cool.
 

Gxas

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They aren't against sports games, they're against the exploitation that comes with it. Madden should have a release every three or so years. Everything else should be a cheap (or free) patch to update the roster.
 

n03s

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Gxas said:
They aren't against sports games, they're against the exploitation that comes with it. Madden should have a release every three or so years. Everything else should be a cheap (or free) patch to update the roster.
Cmon.. computer hardware changes rapidly every 3-6 months , games like call of duty release every year.. but sport games must be decent every 3 years? Well i cant say it makes any sense.. no offence intented
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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JourneyThroughHell said:
I buy a sports game every time it goes through a noticeable change. If you say that FIFA 10 and 11 are the same thing, you are wrong.

That's why I have NHL 09, but FIFA 11.

So, yeah, you're right.
Yep, that's what I do. I buy a new basketball and football title every 2 or three years this generation. I haven't bought Madden yearly since '07. I wait till it changes enough to justify the purchase. Don't worry, OP. A lot of it is just nerds hating on sports.
 

Gxas

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n03s said:
Gxas said:
They aren't against sports games, they're against the exploitation that comes with it. Madden should have a release every three or so years. Everything else should be a cheap (or free) patch to update the roster.
Cmon.. computer hardware changes rapidly every 3-6 months , games like call of duty release every year.. but sport games must be decent every 3 years? Well i cant say it makes any sense.. no offence intented
Did I ever say that Call of Duty or Guitar Hero or Rock Band should have a yearly release either? No. You asked about sports games so I kept my answer on sports games.
 

Xanadu84

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They arn't bashing sports games. They are bashing a yearly release schedule where largely, the additional content consists of tweaking a few numbers, adding some polygons, and innovation is rare. That's not a bash of your hobby, sports, sports games or anything like that. It's a bash on companies that do little to no work and expect to cash in. If you disagree, then you are disagreeing over how much innovation is really in the yearly release schedule, and how much what they do change is worth. You can disagree with them just fine, but none of your counterarguments here really make sense.

Also, I can't say anything about playing sports games, but it is pretty apparent, and he has been said before, that Bob is a big sports fan. He at least has a reason to want to play and enjoy these games, and he doesn't, for the reasons he stated. I can't really weigh in because I don't like sports or sports games. But I do know that most people ive talked to who have an appreciation for gaming AND sports say that the Madden series does little more then change the year and picture on the cover.
 

valleyshrew

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I'm not going to buy them every year anymore. Fifa 11 really wasn't much of an update at all, and actually made a lot of things worse. That they've kept the exact same horrible menus and infrastructure for the past 4+ years is just disgraceful.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Xzi said:
Gxas said:
They aren't against sports games, they're against the exploitation that comes with it. Madden should have a release every three or so years. Everything else should be a cheap (or free) patch to update the roster.
Also, EA shouldn't have a monopoly on football games. That's my biggest issue with the whole thing. If another developer had the chance to compete, they might release a game which has better gameplay than any in the Madden series, and updates the roster for free. Then only release new installments once every three years or so. Instead we are stuck with what EA deems "innovation" each year. Which is to say we get two or three features replaced, not added mind you, but replaced with two or three other features.
EA being allowed to purchase the rights to the NFL label was the worst thing to happen to football video games.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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Tell me this, aside from the roster, is there any major difference between say NHL09 and NHL10? or Madden09 and Madden10? (or *insert your favorite sports franchise here*09 and *insert your favorite sports franchise here*10) In this age of DLC, is there really any need to release a entirely new game every f*ing year?
 

n03s

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Well i visit this site since '08 and sport titles receive amazing bashing and some of it its undeserved..
Ofc some releases arent worth 55 euros but most of them ARE !!
I just saying that both of them said indirectly that people buying them arent so smart.
thats why im ranting about it..
Especially if you are intrested in online play, you will buy it to play with others..
Ok EA are profiting a lot from these yearly releases, but no one mentions that beside Bliz servers EA are the most stable worldwide, that means a lot to some of us and worths its money.


EDIT: Also in FIFA series the roster update is free.. For example you can play FIFA 09 with the 2011 rosters..
 

leedwashere

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I know that the MLB The Show franchise has undergone substantial changes every year, especially in the realms of the Road to the Show mode. They make the experience and improvement mostly less stupid every time, they make the playing more intuitive, they add nice features like being able to watch/play the whole game even if you're not playing... I highly doubt that annual sports games are really just roster updates... though I really only have experience with the one franchise
 

Legion

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Oct 2, 2008
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Nobody suggested that roster updates is all that has ever changed, you are just being immature and exaggerating to justify a rant. They are referring to a year by year analysis in which the changes made are very little, and this is largely true.

Tiger Woods PGA Tour used to be based upon a bar, and to get the right swing you had to time your button presses accordingly. They then decided to innovate and made the swing based upon you using the analogue to decide speed/smoothness/direction of the shot. Once this came about, they changed very little over the next few years apart from relatively minor tweaks that could have quite easily been added via small, cheap DLC (not that it existed at the time).

This is the same for other games as well such as Fifa. They added some new things for 2011, but in the years before that, they had changed very little overall.

Nobody is suggesting that people shouldn't like the games, they are saying that if you are willing to shell out full price for a game that is very, very similar to the last, then you are encouraging the companies to put little effort into their future titles, because they know you are going to buy it any way.

As for when you "should" buy them, the answer is whenever you like, you are just doing yourself no favours in the long run and are gaining little to no value for your money when it comes down to it.

The same goes for those who wait with baited breath for the next COD and Halo map packs, they are basically telling the companies "We don't care that you are releasing a brand new game with an insultingly low amount of multiplayer maps, because we are willing to pay you quarter of the games price every couple of months for you to give us some more."

You also need to stop caring what other people think so much, Yahtzee and Bob don't like sports games, so why do their opinions matter to you so much?
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Sports games and people who buy them are popular targets for a lot of reasons.

The primary reason is not so much that the games don't ever change, but that they don't change signifigantly.

I'm a big defender of JRPGs with classic mechanics, and heck RPGs in general. I defend turn based combat and similar things, with an attitude that "if it's not broke, don't fix it". Despite this the thing is that with sports games there are rarely any real innovations, or changes, RPGs at least have differant storylines and weapons and such, along with their few unique tweaks to gameplay. Sports games don't usually include any signifigant gameplay upgrades that couldn't be patched in except maybe every two or three years. Generally speaking they charge people for little more than roster updates and a new number of the front. The graphics and technology rarely change signifigantly within a console generation as they run on the same hardware.

Sports games are also insturmental in helping to bring the lowest human denominator into the hobby. While not only dumb people like sports, sports are something that dumb people can and do appreciate. "guy who can jump high" is something any mouth breather can get their brain around. Sports franchises brought these people into gaming by the millions when they got to this level of technology. Given the sheer number of these people involved in gaming you saw a lot of effort shifted away from producing serious games, towards catering to this crowd. What's more with this audience already there for the sports games, it helped direct the trend towards producing other very simple "by the numbers" games specifically for the lowest human denominator.

The money spent recycling the same shooters, and buying pro-sports liscencing rights are things that could be being used to produce serious games, for serious gamers. However there is more money to be made here, so that's where a lot of the effort goes. There is a lot of resentment over the simple fact that someone who is a "serious" gamer will have to wait months for titles while they release things like "Call Of Duty" and "Madden" since those titles will sell millions of copies.

What's more the ease of producing games like this, since your dealing with minor updates to an existing formula or engine, has influanced the industry to the point where it prefers to be able to cater to the areas that take the most minimal amounts of effort. Simply put you only really need one game for each sport for a given console generation, everything else is just going to be tweaks on that formula since the hardware won't change. With shooters they tend to be built right out of kits, things like "Havoc Physix", "Unreal", "Graw". Shooters don't have the same basic controls because of some design standardization developers agreed on, but because the guys who developed the actual engines set them that way, and they all use the same engine. The meat of game design is on producing graphics and tweaking an engine someone else produced again and again. This came about due to the easy to please, mainstream who want games about "men who can jump high" and to watch pretty explosions while they tap a button.

Sorry if this isn't terribly polite, but you wanted an honest answer as to why this attitude exists, and this is what I think. There are people who are smart who like sports (plenty of them) and plenty of people who can enjoy mainstream games, and more serious ones, do nobody should think I am nessicarly dismissing them. In the end though there are far more people as customers for gaming out there that can't really appreciate games beyond this level, than serious gamers and those who like to play on both levels.

When you understand the thought processes involved, even if most people don't (or can't) articulate them, it's easy to understand why discussions on this subject can get so nasty.

I'd immediatly guess that while both have defended casual gamers to some extent (being professional) in the end Yahtzee and Bob are serious gamers are their core, and also very picky ones, which is why they are critics. I don't know if they would agree with what I've said, especially in the course of their professional productions, but I'd imagine both have some resentment towards the simple fact that we get so much of this stuff shoveled on the market in lieu of other products. It's sort of like the gaming equivilent of how Bob complains about Michael Bay movies and their mainstream success due to who they appeal to, as opposed to genuinely good film making.
 

GiantRaven

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I think it would be better to release a yearly roster update as DLC but do a brand new game every 2 to 3 years to add significant changes and improvements.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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I can certainly understand why someone would like sports games. It's the same reason people like guitar hero/rockband; It's simple fantasy fulfillment. IMO, the problem is a lot of the nerd crowd (myself included) never really had big dreams of blowing up in the NFL or the like, and thus don't enjoy the games.
 

Anarchemitis

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You'd be jealous of where I'm typing this from right now.
The British Columbia Institute of Technology is literally a five minute walk from EA's Burnaby Studio, which is their headquarters for Sports games development.
They have three basket ball courts and a full regulation Football [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBeautifulGame] field.
 

GiantRaven

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AC10 said:
It's simple fantasy fulfillment. IMO, the problem is a lot of the nerd crowd (myself included) never really had big dreams of blowing up in the NFL or the like, and thus don't enjoy the games.
They can still be fun games regardless (especially in a multiplayer setting). I've had a blast on some of the Pro Evo games and I loathe Football.