Absurdism

[Indeterminacy]

So. Discussion value: What do you think of absurdism? Personally I don't understand it at all. There has to be some meaning to life, you know?

Oh, in Absurdism, there is meaning. Everything is ridiculous, and has meaning in terms of that underlying tragedy/comedy. Moreover, it imposes a sort of functional consequence that the meaning of life from the subjective perspective is to enjoy yourself.

I disagree with this consequence, regardless of any metaphysical foundation people place on things (in fact, both Nihilism and Absurdism strike me as decidedly metaphysical notions in a similar manner to Christianity). If the importance of your life is just for you to enjoy it, then why should I give a damn about you? I wouldn't particularly enjoy the act of killing you, but your ongoing existence doesn't bring me entertainment of itself and drains the world of resources that could probably be better used for my enjoyment.

The meaning of life is completely unfixed by "reality first" metaphysics (not even from a "biology first" perspective), to the point where there is absolutely no foundational thing that can dictate meaning or the absence thereof. For this reason I think Existentialism is a much stronger way of looking at the relationship between us and the world we live in, in that it respects the priority of being grounded in the physical world, while freeing us to build meaning up for ourselves as we see fit.

 

[zehydra]

There has to be some meaning to life, you know?

Not really...to me life is just a game. You can't definitively prove anything one way or the other philosophically, logically, or scientifically, so you may as well have fun while you're here.

Basically, this.

Applying a meaning to life is itself absurd, because there is none.

I don't understand why this isn't understood.

"to me life is just a game"

Well THERE's a meaning to life right there! Stop saying life is meaningless, you're adding meaning to it all the time.

Well, life is inherently meaningless, but most humans decide to add meaning, it's slightly different because this is my personal interpretation of the meaning of life, rather than any absolute meaning of life. All this philosophy hurts my brain ^_^

all meaning is added meaning from humans

 

[Indeterminacy]

all meaning is added meaning from humans

Well, they do say it's possible to communicate with animals. And perhaps there might be intelligent extra-terrestrial life. So while your intention is pretty clear, "humans" is maybe a bit strong.

 

[MassiveGeek]

Applying a meaning to life is itself absurd, because there is none.

I don't understand why this isn't understood.

Then how can you live without being in perpetual depression? If there's no meaning to life, then why do you live? I'm not saying "Go kill yourself!" or anything (I'm not a douchenozzle), just to be clear.

What I think they mean is that there is no universal meaning to life. Which I would agree to be correct.
There's absolutely no reason to believe that because someone that does not have a "meaning" to their existence would kill themselves on a whim or be perpetually depressed. Why the fuck do you need some sort of deep meaning to exist and keep going? And since it seems you haven't found one satisfactory yet, why aren't YOU perpetually depressed? Is your meaning to life to look for a meaning to life?
I settle for the logical and simplest reason to my existence of them all:
My parents fucked and I was the result. You can take this even further and go on about evolution and shit too, but I don't feel like it.
I'm not going to go around moping because I don't have a "meaning" to life. It doesn't mean I don't have goals, plans, dreams and/or can't enjoy myself because this is the only fucking life we know for sure that we have.

I do think it is bullshit to constantly look for a "meaning", if you want one so bad, just make your own, holy shit, it's not hard.
For example, here's my meaning to life that I decided right now: I want a cat.
There, settled. Your turn.

 

[I Have No Idea]

There's absolutely no reason to believe that because someone that does not have a "meaning" to their existence would kill themselves on a whim or be perpetually depressed.

I explicitly stated that I didn't mean "Go kill yourself". When I said "Why do you live?" I meant "What's your own reason you found, if any?"

Why the fuck do you need some sort of deep meaning to exist and keep going? And since it seems you haven't found one satisfactory yet, why aren't YOU perpetually depressed? Is your meaning to life to look for a meaning to life?

I have found a meaning. I believe in God, I'm a Christian, but that's a whole 'nother thread itself. And did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

 

[MassiveGeek]

There's absolutely no reason to believe that because someone that does not have a "meaning" to their existence would kill themselves on a whim or be perpetually depressed.

I explicitly stated that I didn't mean "Go kill yourself". When I said "Why do you live?" I meant "What's your own reason you found, if any?"

Why the fuck do you need some sort of deep meaning to exist and keep going? And since it seems you haven't found one satisfactory yet, why aren't YOU perpetually depressed? Is your meaning to life to look for a meaning to life?

I have found a meaning. I believe in God, I'm a Christian, but that's a whole 'nother thread itself. And did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Why he lives is clear, evolution, life, he was born, his parents fucked. Why wouldn't he live? Why does it have to be a reason for life beyond that?

And yes, I got three hours sleep and woke up to two hours of immense pain and then another 5 hours waiting to go to the doctors to recieve the "great news" that I have UTI and have to eat antobiotics for five days. Not that it has much to do with this.

Then you have a reason, hurrayh for you. Why must there be one for everyone else, why can't they just enjoy themselves? Que sera, sera, and all that.

 

[I Have No Idea]

And yes, I got three hours sleep and woke up to two hours of immense pain and then another 5 hours waiting to go to the doctors to recieve the "great news" that I have UTI and have to eat antobiotics for five days. Not that it has much to do with this.

Bummer. Hope everything works out for you!

 

[MassiveGeek]

And yes, I got three hours sleep and woke up to two hours of immense pain and then another 5 hours waiting to go to the doctors to recieve the "great news" that I have UTI and have to eat antobiotics for five days. Not that it has much to do with this.

Bummer. Hope everything works out for you!

Thank you, but you just avoided all my questions.
Thought you'd get away that easily, did you? You never get away from women when they're in a pissy mood.

 

[Indeterminacy]

Why he lives is clear, evolution, life, he was born, his parents fucked. Why wouldn't he live? Why does it have to be a reason for life beyond that?

Because that explanation only accounts for "why his life started". It doesn't account for "why his life continues".

Basically, the problem is that of Suicide (regardless of what has been said). It clearly happens, and sometimes for good and rational reasons. So why shouldn't everyone kill themselves?

 

[I Have No Idea]

Thank you, but you just avoided all my questions.Thought you'd get away that easily, did you?

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

Why does it have to be a reason for life beyond that?

I never said that there must be a meaning to life. It's all subjective, it depends on your personal beliefs.

Why must there be one for everyone else, why can't they just enjoy themselves?

Of course they can enjoy themselves. Personally I see my meaning as a destination to look forward to while enjoying life along the way.

 

[Indeterminacy]

I never said that there must be a meaning to life. It's all subjective, it depends on your personal beliefs.

That's totally incompatible with a view that Christianity is right, which one assumes is something that one thinks if one believes in it. God is both a necessary and determinate entity; so meaning derived from divine intervention must be essential.

 

[MassiveGeek]

Thank you, but you just avoided all my questions.Thought you'd get away that easily, did you?

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

Why does it have to be a reason for life beyond that?

I never said that there must be a meaning to life. It's all subjective, it depends on your personal beliefs.

Why must there be one for everyone else, why can't they just enjoy themselves?

Of course they can enjoy themselves. Personally I see my meaning as a destination to look forward to while enjoying life along the way.

Thank you, that wasn't so hard now, was it?

 

[I Have No Idea]

I never said that there must be a meaning to life. It's all subjective, it depends on your personal beliefs.

That's totally incompatible with a view that Christianity is right, which one assumes is something that one thinks if one believes in it. God is both a necessary and determinate entity; so meaning derived from divine intervention must be essential.

Earlier I posted "I think there is a meaning to life, since I'm a Christian". Now, if you're, say, an Atheist, then you might not believe there's a meaning to life. That's why I said it's subjective. I guess I shouldn't have worded the "I never said...." part a little differently, but I meant it as trying not to shove something that someone doesn't believe right in their faces, you know? I hope that made sense.

Thank you, that wasn't so hard now, was it?

Absolutely not.

 

[Indeterminacy]

I never said that there must be a meaning to life. It's all subjective, it depends on your personal beliefs.

That's totally incompatible with a view that Christianity is right, which one assumes is something that one thinks if one believes in it. God is both a necessary and determinate entity; so meaning derived from divine intervention must be essential.

Earlier I posted "I think there is a meaning to life, since I'm a Christian". Now, if you're, say, an Atheist, then you might not believe there's a meaning to life. That's why I said it's subjective. I guess I shouldn't have worded the "I never said...." part a little differently, but I meant it as trying not to shove something that someone doesn't believe right in their faces, you know? I hope that made sense.

That's as may be, but Atheism and Nihilism come apart, in that one needn't think that there is a mandated universal meaninglessness to think that God doesn't exist, and similarly, one can think there's a God that just doesn't imbue meaning in any accessible sense.

Christianity is not just a personal motivation thing, but also a metaphysical commitment; moreover, a commitment to the thesis that not only does God exist, but God has impacted the human world by directly imparting his word through the figure of Christ. If you restrict yourself to saying "Jesus gives my life, personally, meaning", that's not any more substantal than saying that Sailing gives my life personal meaning or Studying Maths or playing video games or what have you. It's limited to "I have an interest in what's going on here and let that interest define me".

Christianity has a commitment beyond the personal in that what it is that you actually think is that Jesus's actions were real and substantially authoritative to lay down governing principles by which people should act. You have no choice but to think that what you believe is something that is in peoples' face, regardless of whether you want to actively shove it there, because God Really Exists. Yes, you can deny that this means people categorically have no choice but to interpret the world in such ways, but the Christian position mandates that people who choose otherwise are wrong.

If this isn't something you're prepared to accept, perhaps you might be better off as an interested spectator of Christianity, rather than declaring it as your personal perspective.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

So. Discussion value: What do you think of absurdism? Personally I don't understand it at all. There has to be some meaning to life, you know?

Oh, in Absurdism, there is meaning. Everything is ridiculous, and has meaning in terms of that underlying tragedy/comedy. Moreover, it imposes a sort of functional consequence that the meaning of life from the subjective perspective is to enjoy yourself.

I disagree with this consequence, regardless of any metaphysical foundation people place on things (in fact, both Nihilism and Absurdism strike me as decidedly metaphysical notions in a similar manner to Christianity). If the importance of your life is just for you to enjoy it, then why should I give a damn about you? I wouldn't particularly enjoy the act of killing you, but your ongoing existence doesn't bring me entertainment of itself and drains the world of resources that could probably be better used for my enjoyment.

The meaning of life is completely unfixed by "reality first" metaphysics (not even from a "biology first" perspective), to the point where there is absolutely no foundational thing that can dictate meaning or the absence thereof. For this reason I think Existentialism is a much stronger way of looking at the relationship between us and the world we live in, in that it respects the priority of being grounded in the physical world, while freeing us to build meaning up for ourselves as we see fit.

Why are you quoting me for this? OP said that, not me.

 

[Atmos Duality]

all meaning is added meaning from humans

Well, they do say it's possible to communicate with animals. And perhaps there might be intelligent extra-terrestrial life. So while your intention is pretty clear, "humans" is maybe a bit strong.

It's an objectively valid statement from our frame of reference. There aren't any other fully-sentient species on the planet we're capable of communicating with (a couple are allegedly coming close; certain varieties of porpoise).

This doesn't disprove the possibility of other sentient life elsewhere (it's a big universe, from our perspective); but I wouldn't place contact with them anywhere near the realm of "possible" based on where we are now.

 

[ElPatron]

Then how can you live without being in perpetual depression?

Apathy = depression?

This thread is going places.

Well, they do say it's possible to communicate with animals. And perhaps there might be intelligent extra-terrestrial life. So while your intention is pretty clear, "humans" is maybe a bit strong.

Who says that extra-terrestial beings give meaning to things anyway?

 

[Indeterminacy]

Who says that extra-terrestial beings give meaning to things anyway?

Well, they would if one assumes that meaning is involved in communication, aliens communicate, and that meaning is determined by collective agreement.

 

[ElPatron]

Who says that extra-terrestial beings give meaning to things anyway?

Well, they would if one assumes that meaning is involved in communication, aliens communicate, and that meaning is determined by collective agreement.

Didn't even imply that they have forms of communication, but it's okay, I'll play your game.



Even if they are intelligent, who says they are not purely logical and have not developed feelings, thus not giving a meaning to their existence?



You can never assume that hypothetical extra-terrestrial beings have to be like us.