Academic Dishonesty (Cheating)

[Knife]

Those are horrible ideas, collective punishment is never the answer. Imagine you were arrested and put to jail because your neighbour down the street used drugs. In what universe does that make any kind of sense? How would the students be able to prevent cheating by other students even if they wanted to? People with such foolish views on education should not be allowed to be professors.

Not to mention you'd probably get physically assaulted at some point by the innocent students you failed.

 

[Mallefunction]

While choice B is entertaining and possibly effective, there's no chance any institution would actually adopt it. Also, I'm personally a little miffed that you group English classes with basket weaving.

I'm glad someone else mentioned this.

OP: It is very possible to cheat in an English course. I'm sorry that you fail to see the importance of the subject that allowed you to form your post in the first place.

 

[Berethond]

That is the worst idea ever. You'd get lynched by the students whose time and money you wasted.
Yes, money. Scantrons are not free.

Think of it this way: It's like if you caught one person cheater and then stole a quarter from everyone in the class.

In a class of 200 people that's $50.

 

[daunchy]

Collective punishment is more suited toward groups with some kind of cohesion. College classes are comprised (essentially) of a bunch of strangers occupying the same room for a couple of hours a week over a few months--it simply won't matter if a cheater is ostracized from them. Not to mention the tight schedules college classes run on (IN THEORY) that would be bugger-fucked all over the place by forcing everybody to retake a test.

 

[infinity^infinity]

You're talking about cheating on a test, sharing homework answers, copying papers - what exactly? Or are you including using something from a paper that student already wrote and all the minor instances under the rule as well?

I'm against academic dishonesty in a big way - but there are degrees and certain problems with enforceability for many of the minor ones.

Also... there's a bit of that "innocent until proven guilty" problem - It's entirely possible for a student to write almost the same thing as another student writing about the same topic as someone they've no awareness of simply by chance over a big enough group of people.

I think we're all better off encouraging an environment where the honor system is actually upheld. Enforcement - more and harder - isn't always the answer. I've been watching the Ken Burn's new documentary on Prohibition and that's enough to have convinced me of that little tidbit.

I hope that I will be teaching physics so there probably won't be many papers involved. I am mainly concerned about tests because homework is very hard to enforce, and the way I see it, you can do your own work on the homework which will lead to a better understanding of the material. Or, you can cheat on the homework and get nothing from it and be unprepared for the test hurting yourself in the long run.

 

[darkman80723]

I like what my Russian Language professor handled the cheaters. Now to set this little tale there were only 15 of us in the class and I was one of the only two students to have an A at the midterm, needless to say I found myself very popular on group discussion/study nights...anyway, my prof knew that students were cheating off of me and the other student so she gave the two of us a test with completely different questions (short answer/essay type). After grading the tests she announced that she was proud of the two of us for both acing the test but regrettably most of the rest of the class seemed not to even understand what the questions were (she was also astonished that those that cheated off of me all had two sisters, a brother, a railroader father and a nurse mother same as me). She then gave the students a chance to redeem themselves with a -10% test retake and a warning that anymore cheating on tests and she would have to notify administration. Needless to say there was no more cheating in her class.

 

[infinity^infinity]

While choice B is entertaining and possibly effective, there's no chance any institution would actually adopt it. Also, I'm personally a little miffed that you group English classes with basket weaving.

I'm glad someone else mentioned this.

OP: It is very possible to cheat in an English course. I'm sorry that you fail to see the importance of the subject that allowed you to form your post in the first place.

Okay, fine. I am sorry that I knocked english. I know it is possible to cheat in an english class. Color me miffed by the fact that my last english professor knocked points off my grade for using "they" as a neutral-singular pronoun. Despite the fact that the dictionary clearly lists it as such.

 

[burningdragoon]

The problem with Choice B, besides it being unfair to the other students, is that it is a tactic when the group functions as a single unit. You punish everyone, so the non-offenders will have an issue with the offender, which should hopefully motivate the offender to act with respect to the group. A class of students is, generally, not a unit, so punishing everyone is just plain unfair.

buh ninja'd:

Collective punishment is more suited toward groups with some kind of cohesion. College classes are comprised (essentially) of a bunch of strangers occupying the same room for a couple of hours a week over a few months--it simply won't matter if a cheater is ostracized from them. Not to mention the tight schedules college classes run on (IN THEORY) that would be bugger-fucked all over the place by forcing everybody to retake a test.

 

[Defenestra]

Universities already have their own rules in place for cheating. You just report the cheating, and let someone else deal with it. The ones with which I am familiar deliberately take that choice out of the prof's hands. They actually are not allowed to make their own judgement call on it.

So just focus on teaching, and try to be aware of the means by which someone might cheat.

 

[aba1]

snip

I just thought I would point out that sometimes people make mistakes and I have known couple people who almost got kicked out of school for cheating on things that they did not in fact cheat on at all. For example my friend handed in a program and was basically told he cheated and copied another guy in the class because they both had the same syntax but the reason they syntax was the same was because they both had the same teacher in high school so they simply learned to do things the same way do you think it's fair that they should go through either option?

Having really harsh results no matter what means if you as a administrator make a mistake you are completely screwing somebody who may not deserve it. I think its important to not cheat but I also think teachers jump at the first sign without a second thought and the stakes are high so it's unfair that you can so easily be accused and have no say in defending yourself.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Choice B is the kind of thing that would get you a red frowny face on Rate My Professor. You'd basically be the "only take him if you have to" professor for something like that. Not to mention that such a policy could (and most likely does) violate some rules set forth by most universities.

yup, plus pitting your students against each other in a pissed off manner? Not smart.

nice one, you might just cause that guy who studied all night long and is stressed as fuck to beat the shit out of that person who "cheated".

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Choice B: The student that cheats has to come up to the front of the classroom, rip up their test, announce to the class that they cheated, and everyone must take a re-take. In this option the student that cheated can get no higher than a 70%.

The general consensus so far is that my plan is too draconian, and that I am punishing people who haven't done anything wrong; my reasoning behind this lies in a hypothetical situation. Say you go into a scientific field and publish a paper, if just one of your data points is faked then the entire paper is therefore discredited and the paper is essentially not even worth the paper it was printed on. I believe that this will not only discourage people from cheating, but also encourage others to prevent their classmates from cheating since everyone has the potential to lose. Personally I think that this may not be hard enough, I have spent my entire college career, working my ass off to get good grades, and then I watch some dumbass skate by and cheat his way to a 4.0 GPA. Yes, some people do get caught and get their comeuppance but I am assured that this does not happen to everyone. My proof lies with the testimonies of my father, who works at a government contracting office that helps design weapons for the military. It seems every week my dad complains that some recent grad just got a job at his office, starting salary between 50-75k a year, and does not know shit. Anyways I know this went on way too long than it needed to be but I get worked up on this topic. So what are your opinions on this? Good idea? Bad idea? "Alec you sexy sexy man your brilliance astounds me"? or "As soon as you try and implement this you'll be fired".

For choice B?


While not so extreme, that's essentially the reaction that a good number of kids will give the cheater. At the very least, he'll get shunned for quite a long time by a lot of people. Granted, that will put a stopper in cheating, but at too great a cost. At too unethical a cost.

Yes, everyone deserves a second chance, especially on a test. If a kid cheats once and is truly sorry for it, then offer him a chance to retake the test in a much more difficult form. A few page-long essays or something tough will be fine, but you do not embarrass kids in in front of their peers. It's considered cruel and unethical for a very, very good reason.

ah someone linked the proper video and had better wording for it, so yeah, gonna say agree with this completely.

I've seen some students, especially when under stress, do some very "extremist" things, so putting even more stress over a test like this is the worst thing you can do.

if you don't want people to cheat, then do 3 versions of the test with the answers flipped around so they can't look over and cheat, simple as that.

 

[Unesh52]

Frankly OP, if I had to come into class again to take another test just because some d-bag in the back row cheated, I would be right pissed off. In my experience, the college classroom is not a social entity; most classmates don't even know each other. The extra incentive from "angering the rest of the class" would be minimal. Just punish the student who cheated.

I guess an explanation is required on why I would punish the entire class for the transgressions of one student. As someone pointed out, some classes are in giant lecture halls. I have taken a class in one of these before and it was a class of about three-hundred people; in one of these classes I am sure you could realize the ease at which a paper with answers written on it could be passed along the back rows. Keeping this in mind, while I may have only caught one student cheating I am unsure as to how many cheated. Cheating can be a collabarative effort, and if I catch one person cheating there is no way to determine who else cheated, and the caught student's word is not reliable.

This is basically an argument from ignorance suggesting that because we can't know if someone else was cheating, we do know someone was, and since we can't know who we must punish all to be sure and get them. But consider this -- even if everyone in the back 3 rows of the hall was cheating, that's only around a 3rd or maybe a 5th of the class. How many more innocent students are hurt by this than guilty ones?

 

[torzath]

First option is fine, but I don't know if you can get away with it.
Second option, to echo the rest of this thread, NO. Collective punishment isn't fair in this case.
Even if the cheating is collaborative, if you don't have evidence of anyone else's guilt, they shouldn't be punished. Innocent until proven guilty and all that jazz.

 

[Tselis]

I personally favor expulsion from college for cheating, and a year long waiting period before any college for accept your application, at which point all previous work will be invalidated and you can begin again. >.> But I tend to look on cheating as lazy, dishonorable and cowardly. These are three things that I feel should be crushed with utter ruthlessness.

 

[KeyMaster45]

Choice B: The student that cheats has to come up to the front of the classroom, rip up their test, announce to the class that they cheated, and everyone must take a re-take. In this option the student that cheated can get no higher than a 70%.

I'd withdraw from your class the first time that happened and then spread the word to everyone I know that you do that. As for why, it's because I don't have to take that shit. I don't cheat, on anything. I study and do my work, and I don't enjoy doing it twice. Especially if it's because some fuck nuts decided to cheat and gets caught. I pay my tuition to be taught, not take shit from a professor who's overzealous with the cheating policy. It's not my concern nor should it be that someone else is cheating. My grade is my responsibility, if someone wants to skate through a class cheating I don't give a rat's ass. It's not a competition, I'd be a fool to think it matters at all what the grade is of the guy sitting next to me.

So yeah I say choice A, the kid made their choice so let them stew in the mess they made. With option B I'd promptly tell you to fuck off and you'd never see me in your class again. Plus I'd make sure to ruin your reputation amongst the students, though you wouldn't need just me to do that. I guarantee all the other kids in the class who weren't cheating will be doing that as well through simple word of mouth.

 

[infinity^infinity]

Frankly OP, if I had to come into class again to take another test just because some d-bag in the back row cheated, I would be right pissed off. In my experience, the college classroom is not a social entity; most classmates don't even know each other. The extra incentive from "angering the rest of the class" would be minimal. Just punish the student who cheated.

I guess an explanation is required on why I would punish the entire class for the transgressions of one student. As someone pointed out, some classes are in giant lecture halls. I have taken a class in one of these before and it was a class of about three-hundred people; in one of these classes I am sure you could realize the ease at which a paper with answers written on it could be passed along the back rows. Keeping this in mind, while I may have only caught one student cheating I am unsure as to how many cheated. Cheating can be a collabarative effort, and if I catch one person cheating there is no way to determine who else cheated, and the caught student's word is not reliable.

This is basically an argument from ignorance suggesting that because we can't know if someone else was cheating, we do know someone was, and since we can't know who we must punish all to be sure and get them. But consider this -- even if everyone in the back 3 rows of the hall was cheating, that's only around a 3rd or maybe a 5th of the class. How many more innocent students are hurt by this than guilty ones?

This factor seems to be repeated often. As I said before, in the scientific community, if a single data point in a scientific report is altered, the validity of the entire scientific report is nullified. As I see it, the test scores are a report, to me, by my students; it shows me how well the class understands the information that I am teaching them. If one person "fudges" the data by altering their score by cheating, then the report(test scores) as a whole are discredited. The only way to get an accurate representation then, is to do the entire experiment over again.