Yeah, I agree. The Chernobyl section should of had attack bears. Wheres my bear cavalry!KwaggaDan said:
Africa in gaming. An example from CoD MW3...
- Thread starter KwaggaDan
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To be honest, they were probably so pleased with themselves that they thought of hyenas that they couldn't bare to not use the fuck out of the idea.KwaggaDan said:
What's the matter with exotic? Exotic is interesting, compelling and exciting!DanielDeFig said:
That is not derogatory. That is not offensive.
Americana is exotic. Parisian chic is exotic. And I'm quite sure to some, English castles and country manors are exotic, this is great that people could be so interested in us.
And you know what, Africa IS exotic! They have hyenas and elephants and huge stampeding herds of wilderbeast, vast river valley and savana plains. It's an absolutely extraordinary continent...
The worst you can say is simply through a weasel pun imply it is perverse to like such things from how "exotic" as interesting and unfamiliar and "exotic" as in strip-teases are the same word. But that's two completely different meanings and only someone of extreme immaturity would try to conflate the two.
What i meant is that, if the only positive or interesting thing about Africa you can come up with is that it's "different" (BTW different from what exactly? To ppl who live here it's normal), then you should probably do more research before presenting your product. There are far better themes and issues that can best be tackled by using African countries as a backdrop: Corruption, Famine, Post-Colonial countries, severe ethnic diversities in a unified state, etc.Treblaine said:
While it's certainly different here, it's not interesting simply because they have Hyenas and Lions, because then we might just as well use Swedish Moose as the main attraction to present Swedish culture to anyone outside of Scandinavia (or Canada). All those animals are no more a part of the cultures within Africa than in any other country, and simplifying the wonderful continent that is Africa into simply the wildlife and landscape is offensive, since you don't include the actual people. You can't have a country with borders without humans agreeing (Pretending) they're there. Constantly ignoring the actual people who live there, that make up the cultures here, is what's offensive.
The cultures here are different from western cultures, and presenting that would be interesting, and definitely something I would look forward to being presented to western game audiences. But simply presenting it as "Hey they got animals we don't", is NOT presenting interesting African cultures. It's just coming up with an animal within Africa that could replace the standard COD attack dog.
The fact that that's all they could come up with, is what pisses me (and the OP) off, they might just as well have had actual dogs, or had the level somewhere else and used dogs. If this was a rare occurrence, I wouldn't be bothered (Just one level in COD: MW3). But the fact is, Africa is a very rare topic in gaming, and even rarer is games presenting it well.
And once again you fail to address your horribly incorrect use of an an american racial stereotype, to all dark.skinned people. When in Africa, most people have never even heard of KFC, and certainly have no way of understanding this racial stereotype.
(Exactly why I don't "get" racial stereotypes. How can you claim all "black ppl" enjoy KFC, if most of them can't even afford it?)
Yes and Africa being "exotic" is not a negative issue, neither is it derogative towards Africans. My example is just as irrelevant as your example or the issue on hand. Before you can call something stereotypical it would have to be an established stereotype, like how the Dutch are associated with windmills. I'd be slightly annoyed if a game played in the Netherlands with old ass windmills everywhere and everyone walking on clogs, this is different, this is an established stereotype.DanielDeFig said:
I'm done with this discussion to be honest.
Soooo, you're saying MW3 has no references to - in the part set in Africa, Sierra Leone in particular - famine, corruption, post-colonialism and ethnic tension? I don't see how presence of exotic animals or any exotic elements are mutually exclusive with those themes.DanielDeFig said:
"we might just as well use Swedish Moose as the main attraction to present Swedish culture to anyone outside of Scandinavia"
Australia. Kangaroos. Deal with it.
>admire flora, fauna and landscape
>FUCK YOU! SO YOU THINK ALL THE PEOPLE ARE SHIT, HUH? YOU LIKE MY HOUSE? THAT MEANS YOU MUST HATE ME AS A PERSON WWUURRRRAAAAAAHH!!!
Sorry, I do find the flora and fauna interesting, that doesn't mean I disregard all the people who live in those countries, I'm not one to pry on people's personal affairs. I think people deserve their privacy. I.e. I'd be flattered if some foreigners wanted to see the historical, landscape, flora and fauna of my area but I'd frankly be creeped out if they looked at us. I return the sentiment to them, people are not to gawp at.
"The cultures here are different from western cultures, and presenting that would be interesting"
This is modern warfare 3 we are talking here... you're going to run through, shoot a few dudes then get-to-da-choppa. This isn't The bloody English Patient. African warlords and roving gangs of insane bandits make for compelling bad guys, but it's a whistle-stop tour, you're not going to get the entire socio-political history of Sierra Leone in that time, not of the entire nation, just a depiction of the rebel groups who haunt that part of the world.
"But the fact is, Africa is a very rare topic in gaming, and even rarer is games presenting it well."
With the unfair complaints that come from every time the country is depicted you can tell why. Set a game in Nepal, China, Iran, ANYWHERE but Africa... it's not worth the bullshit.
FYI, Africa is a continent, not a freakin' country! Just something terrible happens in one particular African country doesn't mean it's occurring in every nation in Africa.
Yeah, I know that. The problem is so few people do, I can't reacall the game's name now, but I remember in one section you simply went to Africa (it looked like Central Africa btw). Africa is normally seen as a single country, as much as that sucks, or the problems can be linked together for most of the sub-saharan countries...shadow shogun said:
I was sitting on my bed with my laptop when I saw this. Nearly pissed myself from the LOL.Batou667 said:It gets worse. Wait until you see the stereotyped attack dogs that appear in the Northern Ireland stages.
In the context of CoD, the campaign for that game is all about spectacle. Hyenas are unique and more interesting than attack dogs. Therefore, they appear in the Africa section.
You win this thread. You deserve a cookie.Batou667 said:It gets worse. Wait until you see the stereotyped attack dogs that appear in the Northern Ireland stages.
Allright, first of all, Hyenas are not dogs. In fact, they are more closely related to the family of felidae, or cats for the ones that are less latinically inclined.
And guard bears would better fit canadians than russians, as a few years ago, I read about the raiding of a canadian drug farm which used bears as guard animals (which were kind of inneffective, as they were tamed and thus not aggressive towards humans, including the police officers)
But back to topic: I actually thought that the guard hyena was realistic, as some african warlords tend to keep these animals (amongst others) for intimitation purposes. It's not like the game has packs of guard hyenas chasing you around the level, but one instance where you're attacked by one you surprised by storming an area (at least on normal difficulty).
And concerning the portrayal of africans: I don't think africans are worse off than people of other continents concerning clichees or prejudices. It's just that, as generally africa ranks amongst the poorest places on earth, it's regarded as bad sport to portray them that way.
But as video games are in a very early stage of becoming a serious narrating medium, I for one am happy that africans are not portrayed as stupid or lazy, but rather africa itself (or rather, perts of it) is portrayed as a nigh anarchistic region where people have go to extremes to get by. I don't think that africans fare worse then other mooks in video games.
I rather think it's sad that there are little to no non-caucasian game heroes in games where you can't create your own one. But then, females are underrepresented to, especially in heroines that don't focus on tittilate the male audience.
And guard bears would better fit canadians than russians, as a few years ago, I read about the raiding of a canadian drug farm which used bears as guard animals (which were kind of inneffective, as they were tamed and thus not aggressive towards humans, including the police officers)
But back to topic: I actually thought that the guard hyena was realistic, as some african warlords tend to keep these animals (amongst others) for intimitation purposes. It's not like the game has packs of guard hyenas chasing you around the level, but one instance where you're attacked by one you surprised by storming an area (at least on normal difficulty).
And concerning the portrayal of africans: I don't think africans are worse off than people of other continents concerning clichees or prejudices. It's just that, as generally africa ranks amongst the poorest places on earth, it's regarded as bad sport to portray them that way.
But as video games are in a very early stage of becoming a serious narrating medium, I for one am happy that africans are not portrayed as stupid or lazy, but rather africa itself (or rather, perts of it) is portrayed as a nigh anarchistic region where people have go to extremes to get by. I don't think that africans fare worse then other mooks in video games.
I rather think it's sad that there are little to no non-caucasian game heroes in games where you can't create your own one. But then, females are underrepresented to, especially in heroines that don't focus on tittilate the male audience.
I know you are aware of that because you're South African. I'm Nigerian so I definitely know where you coming from TC.