After London: Making a pen & paper RPG. I want suggestions, comments and lore.

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rossatdi

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Hi everyone!

I'm writing a pen & paper RPG for my friends for a game in late October. I'm writing the system from the ground up but I wanted suggestions, insights, thoughts and similar.

The basic concept is the 250 years ago some nameless disaster, or disasters, wiped out most of civilisation. After a lot of death and horror people have returned to a medieval/dark age period. The story is set in Britain which has returned to a feudal system but with power more evenly spread amongst the regions (South of England, Wales & West Country, North of England, Scotland, Ireland). Importantly firearms have been all but completely lost, although there is a secretive order protecting these dangerous artefacts.

Knowledge and science have become feared and despised - almost religiously so, society remembers that it was science that caused humanities downfall and are suspicious of it.

Raw materials, particularly iron, is much rarer than it was in feudal times. Most of Britain's easily accessibly ore has been mined. There are some deep pits left and a very small international trade. Because of this swords, armour and any metal items are very expensive. Most soldiers are equipped with spears and short swords made of scavenged junk metal crudely re-forged into stubby heavy blades.

Full background so far here:
Its 250 years after the fall of contemporary civilization. Time has not been kept particularly accurately but it's almost certainly around 2260. Records and knowledge from the period known as 'The Fall' are sketchy at best but all recall a series of natural and man-made disasters crippling society over the period of a decade. It is known the sea level has risen by about 15m and the climate in Britain is slightly more exaggerated than it used to be (hotter summers, stormier autumns and springs, and colder winters). The water level rise has reshaped the British Isles only slightly but increased the volume of rivers and waterways, importantly London was completely lost and is now buried under water and mud. There seems to be fair evidence of a series of virulent diseases and references to something called the 'Red Death'.

In Great Britain at least, things began to stabilise about 50 years P.F. (post-Fall...most dates are referred to from this base point, ie the current year is 200 PF), and society levelled out at roughly a early medieval level of sophistication and a population of about 2-million. [As for the speed of the fall to simple society think back to 1808, no trains, minimal canals, King was still calling the shots. And how many people these days could build a steam engine, make a gun or even plough a field!] Mechanical and scientific knowledge is scorned, people remember that man caused his own destruction through science and are wary of its practitioners. Some places go far enough to make the ownership of ancient texts and artefacts illegal, and punishable by death. This a borderline religious belief that is not rationally defended, many a bright young person has gotten himself into trouble being too quick with new solutions.

Control of the country is split between the King of England, coalitions of Barons and Warlords, the Prince of Wales and the Prince of Edinburgh. The King of England is still traceable along the long line of Windsors but now control only about 50% of England (concentrated in the South and Midlands), the capital has been located to Winchester and one of the few remaining ancient cathedrals. Three coalitions exist across the North of England and overlap with old borders into Scotland and North Wales, the seats of these groups are Newcastle, Liverpool and Sheffield. None is powerful enough to conqueror the other two but all are strong enough to resist the King and the Scottish and Welsh powers. The Prince of Wales sits in Cardiff and controls South Wales and much of the South West of England. The Prince of Edinburgh controls Scotland but only as a loose affiliate of local Barons with nominal allegiance to the Prince.

Warfare as regressed to ancient times but without the quantity of iron ore and skills that it used to have. Steel armour is expensive and less well crafted than it was. Swords are a weapon of the elite owing to the quantity of metal required to make it. Guns are almost completely non-existent. In the panic around The Fall the government destroyed huge caches of weaponry for fear that looters would get their hands on them and overthrow the government. Small reliable weapons are occasionally found but a fought and killed for. The Order of the Hand, a shadowy and illegal organisation, is by far the largest owner of firearms and uses them to defend itself and the lost knowledge it protects. Small international trade routes have sprung up dealing in luxuries and raw materials but not enough to sustain huge professional armies.

Slavery is common and institutionalised. The punishment for many crimes is a life of bonded service to be auctioned off at market. Each slave is branded on their left forearm. Their lives are completely at the mercy of their masters and some particularly cruel owners will kill them at the slightest whim. There are a smattering of 'free towns' which are ban the use of slaves. These towns are protected by another society called The Keys. The rule of not allowing slaves is legal but there is also a law that allows slave hunters to forcibly capture escaped slaves and return them to servitude. The Keys and the slave hunters fight constant small skirmishes around these towns but stay clear of any official condemnation.

At the fringes of humanity exists a more ancient, supernatural world. The power of belief, both in old gods and new, has physical power that would seem unbelievable to the pre-Fall ancients. Faith healing is not a joke or scam all the time in this world, and neither are witches. Peoples fear of the dark is now justified again as strange things haunts the woods of this new more primative society. There are three 'spheres of influence' above that of the normal world. The first is that of the old gods, the pagan spirits and monsters and is normally found out in the newly common wilderness. Although it is the source of a lot of fear many people worship the gods of fertility, providence and luck as they once did before Christianity came to Britain. Christianity still holds sway in the country, mostly in her many churches, cathedrals and monasteries but with the noble light of Christianity comes the terrifying blackness of the Fallen One's world. Although people fear the spirits of the trees and the mischievous fae creatures, its is the demonic powers that is found in corrupt places that truly causes man to turn tail and run. The third fear is the least tangible, it is that of reason. A worship of reason and science is found only in a few workshops and The Order of the Hand, but it still exists, man's arrogant belief that through the application of reason knowledge, and therefore power can be found. This is not a world of common placed magic, but it is found albeit subtly and without bluster.

The basic plot will have the heroes placed in the centre of an emerging crisis. The old celtic gods of Britain are trying to assert themselves. To combat this they are charged with tracking down 5 ancient items that symbolises Britain's victory over primitive forces. These are:

Sir Francis Drake's Drum Britain's maritime hero who defeated the French and Spanish armadas. He took his drum with him on all his voyages and before he died promised that when Britain was again threatened he would return upon the beating of the drum. Actually a real item! Its kept in the Tower of London!
Alfred the Great's Book of Laws This was the first codified book of law written in Western Europe. Alfred helped the early Britons fight off the terror of the Vikings and form a law abiding society. Again, real item, in the British Library!
Robin of Loxley's Bow Robin Hood's famous bow that was used to fight tyrannical abuse of power and command the forests of England. Unfortunately not a real item!
Galahad's Shield Lancelot's noble son and one of the three knights who attained the Grail Quest. Famed for his purity, his shield was supposedly anointed with the blood of Joseph of Arimathea. Again not real!
Arthur Pendragon's Sword King Arthur's Caledfwlch, the veritable Sword in the Stone, was his most valued possession. Although a weapon of war it was a symbol of Arthur's desire to unite Britain and end the constant conflict that engulfed it. In my backgarden , not real...

Classes so far:

Knights [social rank, good access to armour, follow a code]

Knight of the Garter
English order of knighthood, the Order of the Garter, was the likely destination of most sons of the nobility. Although technically bound by the rules of chivalry the amount it is respected is hugely variable. Some young knights are pillars of virtue but they are more often than not arrogant, rich thugs competitively jockeying for court favours whilst watching their own backs. Generally speaking they are disliked by the vast majority of people who consider damaging wars the posturing of these young men.
Guaranteed equipment: Arming sword, metal shield, half-plate armour, warhorse, lance and squire.


Knight of the Rose
The Order of the Rose is the royal family's personal order of knighthood. They are retained by the House of Windsor as political representatives and personal bodyguards. A rare few are directly knighted to the order but most are granted it after a particular act of service for the King or royal family. They are generally respected as a 'good sort' by the masses and have a large amount of social capital, often above their potential income. Immune from the petty rivalries of lower knights they are however open to the dangers of regional politics.
Guaranteed equipment: Quality arming sword, metal shield, full plate armour, warhorse (with armour), lance, squire and retainer.

Knight of the Thistle
Scottish nobles live in a very different society and the Order of Thistle exhibits this. Instead of the relatively large power bases in and around England & Wales, Scotland has a low level of constant inter-clan violence. As such Knights of the Thistle are more war like and less driven by court rankings, they tend to be very loyal to their lord and Prince. Generally they are regarded better by their people, but their war like existence demands the trust of the people.
Guaranteed equipment: Arming sword, great sword (claymore), half-plate armour, warhorse and squire.


Knight of the Dragon
The court of the Prince of Wales is more unified than other kingdoms and almost all military focus is directed outside to the King's realm, the Scots or the three coalitions. The court is huge and prides itself on its artistic output as well its skill at arms. Knights are expected to be able sing, play instruments and wittily exchange jibes, as much as they are to be able to joust. Competition between young knights is bitter and fierce. The Order of the Dragon takes it code from old Celtic tradition and differs slightly from the other codes.
Guaranteed equipment: Arming sword, longbow, quarter-plate, warhorse and squire.


Knight of the Lion
The Oder of the Lion is made up of knights that are not part of the aristocracy. Its founder, a semi-wealthy guild craftsman, saved the King's life from an assassination attempt and was granted knighthood as a reward. As a knight may dub those he chooses, although is punished severely for recklessly raising people to knighthood, Sir Schuhart set up an order in which the normal requirements of nobility were ignored. Most Knights of the Lion are poorly equipped and are ridiculed by their noble peers but they are loved by the people and can demand the same rights any knight can. Most are chosen on ability and motivation, and unfortunately most have quite short careers as the life span for a Knight of the Lion is often tragically short but stirringly heroic.
Guaranteed equipment: Soldier's sword, cheap mail shirt, riding horse, spear.


Rogues [secret society members and criminals]

Assassin - Hired to settle political scores and social rivalries.
Guaranteed equipment: Dagger, climbing gear, dark clothes, half sword, 1 of poisons, explosives or miniature crossbow.


Key - Ex-slave freedom fighter.
Guaranteed equipment: Bastard sword, longbow, lock picks.


Order Protector - Defender of the last bastion of ancient technological knowledge, uses firearms.
Guaranteed equipment: Firearms (random), ammunition, half sword.


Order Searcher - Explorer and traders looking for ancient knowledge and artefacts.
Guaranteed equipment: Cross bow (random), half sword, compass.


Outlaw - Highway robber and braggart (may have Robin Hood complex).
Guaranteed equipment: None, required purchase.


Cleric - Travelling mystic who uses almost lost medical knowledge to help people, for a fee.


Woodsman - Loner hunter trapper, knowledge of how to avoid and utilise tree spirits.


Men of the Church [specific status, some faith based powers]
Monk - Catholic holy man, demonology magic.


Priest - Protestant holy man, faith magic.


Paragon - Protestant knight of the Church.


Templar - Catholic witch, heretic and demon hunter.


Freemen [people who earn a living by their sword but are not bound by masters]
Mercenary - Highly skilled war fighter and low level commander.


Jaunter - Swordsman and brawler who makes a living fighting in arenas and for the highest bidder.


Ranger - Knight of the woods who helps protect villagers, but also keep them respectful.


Alderman - Retired soldier who acts as a diplomatic/trade ambassador for a town or merchant consortium.


Marksman - Specialist mercenary who has perfected the art of the longbow.


Tracker- Countrywide bounty hunter/lawman. Feared but trusted.


Magic Users
Witch - User of natural magic by placating the old gods.


Necromancer - Ritualist who can bring life and death, and terrifyingly life from death.
Guaranteed equipment:
Advantages:

Gifted - strange group of individuals capable of the manipulation of matter and elements merely by force of will.
 

Fire Daemon

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Dec 18, 2007
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I noticed you have a Templar option for the Men of the Church. However I was thinking you could make a Knight Order of the same name. Create a knight order dedicated to the hunting of witches and daemons etc.

I think if you are going to have a RPG with knight orders you need the Knights Templar.
 

wilsonscrazybed

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Dec 16, 2007
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My first suggestion is cut some fat. A game with too many choices makes it harder for the writer to build a cohesive story. What is the goal of having so many choices? Are there redundant classes? Can you turn these 'classes' into 'subclasses?' I think we need to see more of your lore before we can give you any solid feedback.

I am just curious, what sort of system are you using? Diceless? Multiple dice? d10, d20, d100? How much of this have you playtested and balanced?
 

TheGhostOfSin

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May 21, 2008
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First of all if the sea level rose 15m then Liverpool and Cardiff would have been destroyed.
 

rossatdi

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Fire Daemon post=18.71021.711291 said:
I noticed you have a Templar option for the Men of the Church. However I was thinking you could make a Knight Order of the same name. Create a knight order dedicated to the hunting of witches and daemons etc.

I think if you are going to have a RPG with knight orders you need the Knights Templar.
wilsonscrazybed post=18.71021.711387 said:
A game with too many choices makes it harder for the writer to build a cohesive story. What is the goal of having so many choices? Are their redundant classes? Can you turn these 'classes' into 'subclasses?'
Will tighten up class structure. Probably strip out most of the more magical leaning classes and use them primarily as NPCs. Class is basically just a descriptor of a persons' position and status in the world, rather than an iron clad limiter on their skills.
 

wilsonscrazybed

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Dec 16, 2007
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rossatdi post=18.71021.711448 said:
Will tighten up class structure. Probably strip out most of the more magical leaning classes and use them primarily as NPCs. Class is basically just a descriptor of a persons' position and status in the world, rather than an iron clad limiter on their skills.
Great, call it occupation. Base your skills on something related to, but not dependant on the player's class.
 

rossatdi

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wilsonscrazybed post=18.71021.711387 said:
I am just curious, what sort of system are you using? Diceless? Multiple dice? d10, d20, d100? How much of this have you playtested and balanced?
System is d6 only. Half play tested and kept simple but flexible. Competitive tasks will simply be d6+stat vs. d6+stat, tests (strength, balance, resistance, fatigue, charm, etc) are a simple roll a d6 and get equal or under your stat.

Principle is to keep rolling to a minimum but to have a sturdy adaptable set of rules to use on the fly. Combat will be more detailed.

Combat system operates on a Combat Point (CPs) basis, its aimed at being fast and useful once learnt. System operates in the following logic, obviously more complicated but simply:
Each character acts in initiative order.
Attacking moves use CPs but so does Defending moves (although there is a free but penalised dodge).
Characters need to balance attacking and defending.

-I've got a detailed combat play test this week with two mates. Fortunately I've made half a dozen systems over the years so I'm pretty good at getting the general gist right first time. Even did the semi-impossible and made a good Dragon Ball Z one in the long long ago (when I was 14!).
 

rossatdi

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TheGhostOfSin post=18.71021.711400 said:
First of all if the sea level rose 15m then Liverpool and Cardiff would have been destroyed.
A lot of towns will have been rebuilt near their historical ancestors - even a new Liverpool is going to be on a coast line, thus be a good place for a city, etc. Not fully mapped out world yet.

wilsonscrazybed post=18.71021.711387 said:
I think we need to see more of your lore before we can give you any solid feedback.
Bosses off to meeting at 1430 so will reply in more detail then!

Lord_Ascendant post=18.71021.711472 said:
sounds like the book Dies the Fire by SM Sterling.
Never read it - or even heard of it! Its more based around After London or Wild England (hence the name) by Richard Jeffries with my love of Christian and old British myths! Gunpowder certainly works its just rare as hell.
 

Lord_Ascendant

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Dies the Fire is about an event that makes all modern tech not work and guns not fire. It all devolves into mideval warfare. It is really good, you should read it. And yes, After London is good too.
 

fedpayne

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15m? Then Portsmouth would be drowned. What a shame. What a crying shame.

I'll be in the game, an all powerful hermit living atop the remains of the Isle of Wight.

Or not...
 

rossatdi

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You've read After London? I wouldn't go as far as doubting you but its a bloody obscure book! Thank god its online for free! I certainly want to capture some of the fear of old city locations, but I'm not going too far that way. Some of the more inland cities will be in the decaying ruins of there ancestors.
 

Lord_Ascendant

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bloody obscure books FTW! Yeah I read chapter one ten decided it was too long. Dies the Fire is better, up there with Alas, Babylon and The Stand as best post-apcalypse books.
 

rossatdi

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Lord_Ascendant post=18.71021.711575 said:
bloody obscure books FTW! Yeah I read chapter one ten decided it was too long. Dies the Fire is better, up there with Alas, Babylon and The Stand as best post-apcalypse books.
Ah, it gets really cool towards the end. Felix gets his act together and stops being a whiny *****. Gets trapped in the swamps of London and just barely survives. He goes on befriend a clan of shepherds who he helps beat some gypsies and slowly becomes their king.
 

rossatdi

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Prologue Gathering Storm

All five characters (the friends being subject to the adventure!) are travelling through a village on the outskirts of Newcastle. Their reasons for travel are various but the town is small and there is but one inn. Travelling alone is not overly dangerous over short areas during daylight but some of the characters may have previously known each other - that's up to the players. Any of them may be travelling with retainers or friends.

In the night the players are woken by horrific noises. The burst out into the corridor to find a guest butchering another with a knife. When challenged he rushes them raving incoherently. AS they pin him down or attack him he collapses, gargling. Ants start puring out of all his orifices. Searching the inn will find the other guests in suffering from a similar fate but to all of nature's insect selection.

As they're deciding what to do a Black Dog attacks them. These creatures are ancient British myth, if you ever saw one it meant your death! On the outskirts of the village they see a tall figure moving, one with horns and hoofed feet - they received an unbelievably deep feeling of terror from this shadow. They survive the night - either through hiding or confronting the monster and in the morning decide that collectively heading to Newcastle will be the best approach (one of the few GM forced decisions I'm going to use for the sake of driving the initial plot forward).

They arrive in Newcastle at the same time a great but shattered army is trudging back through the city. Whispers and rumours are abound that the army just narrowly managed to defeat an organized band of apparently feral humans (this is not something that has happened before). In addition there are whispers and rumours that 5 villages around Newcastle were wiped out by something mysterious, only corpses were found - all in various horrific positions.

A city meeting is called for the evening and anyone with information to step forward. At least one character will have the right to have his voice heard (a knight or a freeman) and they relate their story to the city's lord. Lord Gray's closest adviser is a well known wiseman and believes that the characters must have been chosen (for what is unclear) - and he takes them aside and tells them they should make for Leeds and talk to its Baron who has a great wealth of knowledge of these things.

As this private meeting is takeing place the alarms are raised something inhuman has infiltrated the castle and is making his way for the Baron's chambers. The character's either rush to save him, flee to Leeds, or head off on their own devices. Needless to say that during their trip to Leeds, or assuming they choose not to, all kinds of unnatural things start afflicting the countryside. There are few answers to be found save at Leeds.

Fortunately my players/friends are quite good at taking on roles and seeking out the story rather than wandering around like idiots. So they should appreciate the direction.
 

rossatdi

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The general tone is going to be dark. Many lords are simply there to feather their own nests. Knights are by example normally petty arrogant men who seek favour with their regional courts in hopes bettering their own prospects. The average townsperson is put upon by taxes and crime with the constant fear of being made a slave for a crime. And slaves are common, and treated like crap causal violence to them is looked down upon no more than damaging your own property in a fit of rage.

There are a few good souls out there though, the characters are stepping in to these shoes. The experience system will be based around staying character but also about being heroic, either for anyone or just their group (having been severely shaken by the event in the village).
 

ToxicRevival

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My only suggestion (as a person who has attempted this himself)is to play test, play test and then play test some more. Seriously an October time line no matter how late doesn't seem like enough time to balance the combat and stat systems of various creatures, factions, equipments, mounts, vehicles et cetera. However if you are serious about this, I could give you a hand as a 12 + year table top role-player, an author and a game designer. Just send me a private message and I'll see if I can help you pull this off.

Heck I even know the owner of a Table-top rpg publishing company if it gets to that point.
 

rossatdi

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Cheers Toxic, definitely like what your thinking - although the October game will be quite informal (they normally don't mind me screwing up as long as I give them a good time of it!).