After months of protests and rioting, Chileans opt to destroy their constitution and make a new one.

[crimson5pheonix]

"Rebirth": Chileans vote by millions to tear up Pinochet's constitution

Chileans poured into the country's main squares on Sunday night after voters gave a ringing endorsement to a plan to tear up the country's Pinochet-era constitution in favour of a new charter drafted by citizens.

www.reuters.com

Chileans have been protesting for years now about the neoliberal constitution foisted on them by Pinochet, but after a year of rioting the government held a referendum, and the people have said they want to make a new constitution entirely.

 

[dreng3]

Great, constitutions should be open to change and modification, and sometimes they should be scrapped entirely to make room for something better and more in line with the times.

Though I fear veering a bit off topic that is one of my greatest criticisms of the US, the notion that the constitution is some sort of perfect document that can guide everyone and everything.

 

[Neuromancer]

Good. Pissing on Pinochet's legacy is almost as good as pissing on his grave.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

 

[Trunkage]

Great, constitutions should be open to change and modification, and sometimes they should be scrapped entirely to make room for something better and more in line with the times.

Though I fear veering a bit off topic that is one of my greatest criticisms of the US, the notion that the constitution is some sort of perfect document that can guide everyone and everything.

The current US constitution is having a real hard time dealing with the internet age. See also slavery

The current US constitution stopped half the things Trump wanted to do

So... swings and roundabouts

I would say that none of the 'we the people' were involved in either the Chilean or US constitution. Maybe next time, involve the people? That's the whole point right?

 

[meiam]

Great for them, but I fear the worst. Looking at GDP per capita in south america (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_American_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita) Chile has a whole lot more room to fall than to grow. It's really easy to just assume they can change the constitution in a way that they can keep all the advantages of the old one while fixing all the disadvantages but ending up doing the opposite. Hopefully this won't be capture by populist who'll start putting all kind of nice sounding idea in it that will have plenty of unfortunate consequence.

 

[Iron]

I don't think it's "the people" as much as "the people who live in Santiago and think they represent the oppressed".
If this goes through Chile would go in a similar path as Argentina, sucking the provinces dry to support an every increasing decrepit capital.
Example of idiocy in Argentina atm -

Argentina establishes 1% quota for trans workers in civil service jobs

One percent of state jobs must be reserved for transgender people, according to a decree published yesterday in the Official Gazette.

www.batimes.com.ar

Number of government employees in Argentina - 3,213,000.

In Argentina, 55% of all registered workers are employed by government

Public sector jobs have soared in recent years in Argentina, and from a relation of 42 every 100 registered workers, white and blue-collar, back in 2012, it has jumped to 55 currently. This means that in the 2012/2017 period, the creation of government-paid jobs was larger than the overall...

en.mercopress.com

Number of tg individuals required to staff positions in the government - 32,000.
This is because the same law was passed in '12 in Buenos Aires (the federal region), which is a whopping 30% of the entire population of Argentina. Despite my efforts I couldn't find numbers for transgendered individuals, the only useful fact was that 9,000 people requested an ID change since 2012 (when the law that allowed this was passed).

So they will pass laws like this and pat themselves on the back. The suck the provinces dry and waste money pretending to help the oppressed.

 

[Agema]

Great for them, but I fear the worst. Looking at GDP per capita in south america (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_American_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita) Chile has a whole lot more room to fall than to grow. It's really easy to just assume they can change the constitution in a way that they can keep all the advantages of the old one while fixing all the disadvantages but ending up doing the opposite. Hopefully this won't be capture by populist who'll start putting all kind of nice sounding idea in it that will have plenty of unfortunate consequence.

The Chilean Constitution has some distinctly odd features.

Pinochet essentially cooked up a Constitution and rammed it through somewhat undemocratically. It contains some quite unusual features that reflect Pinochet's pet likes and dislikes, some of which effectively dictate neoliberal economic policy. Lots of the people have got quite fed up that although Chile is successful, it has come at declining average standards of education and an increasing wealth gap, and that the constitution inherently serves the rich over the poor.

 

[Agema]

I don't think it's "the people" as much as "the people who live in Santiago and think they represent the oppressed".

Hardly.

Santiago is about 30% of the population of Chile. The decision to change the constitution was agreed by 78%, so even if literally everyone who voted in Santiago voted for a new consitution, the rest of the country would have voted for a new constitution by a ratio of 2:1.

 

[Gordon_4]

Good. Pissing on Pinochet's legacy is almost as good as pissing on his grave.

Pissing on Pinochet should become Chile’s new national sport.

 

[Iron]

Hardly.

Santiago is about 30% of the population of Chile. The decision to change the constitution was agreed by 78%, so even if literally everyone who voted in Santiago voted for a new consitution, the rest of the country would have voted for a new constitution by a ratio of 2:1.

This is an incredibly simplistic argument, Agema. The absolute hell they waged against the government in the year before covid dragged the general population into this referendum. You could also appreciate what is being omitted - there was a question on whether the constitution should be changed, and then on who would do it. It passed that ALL of the people that would be a part of the convention to draft this were elected by the people and not merely half.

Also - %30, 78%, what is voter turnout, what is math.

 

[Revnak]

This is an incredibly simplistic argument, Agema. The absolute hell they waged against the government in the year before covid dragged the general population into this referendum. You could also appreciate what is being omitted - there was a question on whether the constitution should be changed, and then on who would do it. It passed that ALL of the people that would be a part of the convention to draft this were elected by the people and not merely half.

Good thing that passed I guess

 

[Iron]

Good thing that passed I guess

Yeah, the ones that pushed for the new constitution and put Chile through riots wanted to have a majority in how the constitution would be written.

 

[Shadyside]

Next is murica depending on the result of the election.

 

[CM156]

Next is murica depending on the result of the election.

Good luck getting two thirds of the US Congress to agree on anything.

Or two thirds of states for a Constitutional Convention.

 

[Shadyside]

Good luck getting two thirds of the US Congress to agree on anything.

Or two thirds of states for a Constitutional Convention.

I mean more rioting until there is some actual change.

 

[Revnak]

Yeah, the ones that pushed for the new constitution and put Chile through riots wanted to have a majority in how the constitution would be written.

I would say the old garbage constitution and years of neoliberal austerity were more to blame for the riots and suffering (and the majority of Chile seems to agree) but you do you.

 

[Trunkage]

I mean more rioting until there is some actual change.

Is that what the founding fathers needed to get states to turn up?

 

[Iron]

I would say the old garbage constitution and years of neoliberal austerity were more to blame for the riots and suffering (and the majority of Chile seems to agree) but you do you.

It'll get mismanaged into oblivion like Argentina and Brazil to a lesser extent. Be a puppet or let your stupid elite screw your own country. Part and Parcel of south america.

 

[CM156]

It'll get mismanaged into oblivion like Argentina and Brazil to a lesser extent.

Pobre Argentina: Tan lejos de Dios, tan cerca del Reino Unido.