After you've completed everything there is to do in an open world game, your character is dead.

[Erttheking]

I saw someone on a forum say once, that the Undead in Dark Souls can never truly be killed, that they just get more and more hollow and pathetic because they give up, and dieing feels awful and the hollowing comes after loss of hope and will. And your characters greatest trait that allows them to be the chosen undead and do all these things is simply stubbornness, that you can die a thousand times and not go hollow.

Unless you ragequit the game, if you the player give up, does that mean your character went hollow?

That's always been my head canon. I mean it's an excellent example of gameplay and story melding.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

I saw someone on a forum say once, that the Undead in Dark Souls can never truly be killed, that they just get more and more hollow and pathetic because they give up, and dieing feels awful and the hollowing comes after loss of hope and will. And your characters greatest trait that allows them to be the chosen undead and do all these things is simply stubbornness, that you can die a thousand times and not go hollow.

Unless you ragequit the game, if you the player give up, does that mean your character went hollow?

That's always been my head canon. I mean it's an excellent example of gameplay and story melding.

And the canon involves alternate realities which explains the phantoms, they can be chosen undead of their own universes, and some give up. So everybodies unique playthroughs are also canonically happening. When every playthrough is canon its a real meta mindfuck.

 

[FPLOON]

And?

On a separate note, I am apparently also not alive. I don't gain levels.

Shit, you too? No wonder I still don't think one's age does not equate to their overall "level"...

OT: More like said character has completed their bucket list and is now fully satisfied with the life that they lived without knowing/realizing that it was all because of the player that they could even accomplish that feet in the first place...

Other than that, unless they are/were you, then I'm sticking with the headcannon that I just made up to answer this thread...

 

[NeutralDrow]

They're doing whatever they were doing last (I think TV Tropes calls it Offscreen Inertia). Otherwise, quite a few people in real life would technically count as zombies, despite being of excellent health.

Hell, City of Heroes outright named their logging-off bonus XP feature after the concept (your character had a day job when they weren't out heroing).

I saw someone on a forum say once, that the Undead in Dark Souls can never truly be killed, that they just get more and more hollow and pathetic because they give up, and dieing feels awful and the hollowing comes after loss of hope and will. And your characters greatest trait that allows them to be the chosen undead and do all these things is simply stubbornness, that you can die a thousand times and not go hollow.

And yet certain NPCs can go hollow, get killed, and stay dead.

 

[kenu12345]

If the emergent game play design is good enough, your character never dies because there's a nigh infinite amount of micro-situations for them to get into and figure ways out of.

fallout 4 and GTA V are excellent examples of this point.

I just wanted to say Fallout 4 is a horrible example of this to where the 'emergent game design' messed with the quality of the game. There really ain't as much interesting quests out there and those repeating quests are almost unavoidable at times to picking up and its frustrating especially after you realise that its just spawning random enemies in random areas that it wants you to kill. Once had to help a settlement with a ghoul problem from ghouls on the other side of the map

 

[Zombie Proof]

If the emergent game play design is good enough, your character never dies because there's a nigh infinite amount of micro-situations for them to get into and figure ways out of.

fallout 4 and GTA V are excellent examples of this point.

I just wanted to say Fallout 4 is a horrible example of this to where the 'emergent game design' messed with the quality of the game. There really ain't as much interesting quests out there and those repeating quests are almost unavoidable at times to picking up and its frustrating especially after you realise that its just spawning random enemies in random areas that it wants you to kill. Once had to help a settlement with a ghoul problem from ghouls on the other side of the map

I only play the game on the new survival mode. Even those random repeated fetch quests turn into an adventure without the ability to save or take any real damage. You never know what a walk out of that settlement will bring you. Plus only being able to save via sleep (and the lack of fast travel), at any point you can suddenly lose out on 45 minutes of gameplay from a landmine or surprisingly tough enemy. Fallout 4 survival magnifies every element of game play design to the point that no elements of the game are taken for granted like so much is in normal mode.

Play survival mode.

*edit*
...but stay away from that ballistic weave. It breaks the balance and tension of survival.

 

[kenu12345]

If the emergent game play design is good enough, your character never dies because there's a nigh infinite amount of micro-situations for them to get into and figure ways out of.

fallout 4 and GTA V are excellent examples of this point.

I just wanted to say Fallout 4 is a horrible example of this to where the 'emergent game design' messed with the quality of the game. There really ain't as much interesting quests out there and those repeating quests are almost unavoidable at times to picking up and its frustrating especially after you realise that its just spawning random enemies in random areas that it wants you to kill. Once had to help a settlement with a ghoul problem from ghouls on the other side of the map

I only play the game on the new survival mode. Even those random repeated fetch quests turn into an adventure without the ability to save or take any real damage. You never know what a walk out of that settlement will bring you. Plus only being able to save via sleep (and the lack of fast travel), at any point you can suddenly lose out on 45 minutes of gameplay from a landmine or surprisingly tough enemy. Fallout 4 survival magnifies every element of game play design to the point that no elements of the game are taken for granted like so much is in normal mode.

Play survival mode.

*edit*
...but stay away from that ballistic weave. It breaks the balance and tension of survival.

Sound tedious and annoying and an excuse for terrible game design. No offense. I don't think switching the difficulty will change my opinion on those quests. It wouldn't be as bad since you get ambushed with them at times and they are almost always kill kill kill

 

[Souplex]

My Saints Row protagonist is right now hanging out on a ship occasionally jumping into a simulation where she can wreck havoc to her heart's content, all without the moral questioning regarding killing real people. Then again, killing real people never bothered her anyways.

To be fair, the only thing that ever bothered the boss is why her accent changed from Slavic to French upon being elected president.
(Seriously, why did they ruin Female Voice 2?)

 

[Zombie Proof]

If the emergent game play design is good enough, your character never dies because there's a nigh infinite amount of micro-situations for them to get into and figure ways out of.

fallout 4 and GTA V are excellent examples of this point.

I just wanted to say Fallout 4 is a horrible example of this to where the 'emergent game design' messed with the quality of the game. There really ain't as much interesting quests out there and those repeating quests are almost unavoidable at times to picking up and its frustrating especially after you realise that its just spawning random enemies in random areas that it wants you to kill. Once had to help a settlement with a ghoul problem from ghouls on the other side of the map

I only play the game on the new survival mode. Even those random repeated fetch quests turn into an adventure without the ability to save or take any real damage. You never know what a walk out of that settlement will bring you. Plus only being able to save via sleep (and the lack of fast travel), at any point you can suddenly lose out on 45 minutes of gameplay from a landmine or surprisingly tough enemy. Fallout 4 survival magnifies every element of game play design to the point that no elements of the game are taken for granted like so much is in normal mode.

Play survival mode.

*edit*
...but stay away from that ballistic weave. It breaks the balance and tension of survival.

Sound tedious and annoying and an excuse for terrible game design. No offense. I don't think switching the difficulty will change my opinion on those quests. It wouldn't be as bad since you get ambushed with them at times and they are almost always kill kill kill

You're wrong. It's far more than a difficulty shift. It's a shift in game play design on the overall. All of what you just wrote is inaccurate supposition. It's not tedious at all (if you go into it expecting a more nuanced experience), no more so than any of the stalker games (which is what this new mode feels the most like). Calling it merely a difficulty shift is reductive.

 

[Odbarc]

In a figurative sense.

Because you've done everything you can with the character. It literally can't change or grow anymore because you hit the level cap.

Grand Theft Auto suggests that once you've completed everything, you get to steamroll an Abrams tank through the city and watch as the two star police officer attempts to pull your car over for speeding violations.

 

[Borty The Bort]

If the emergent game play design is good enough, your character never dies because there's a nigh infinite amount of micro-situations for them to get into and figure ways out of.

fallout 4 and GTA V are excellent examples of this point.

I just wanted to say Fallout 4 is a horrible example of this to where the 'emergent game design' messed with the quality of the game. There really ain't as much interesting quests out there and those repeating quests are almost unavoidable at times to picking up and its frustrating especially after you realise that its just spawning random enemies in random areas that it wants you to kill. Once had to help a settlement with a ghoul problem from ghouls on the other side of the map

I only play the game on the new survival mode. Even those random repeated fetch quests turn into an adventure without the ability to save or take any real damage. You never know what a walk out of that settlement will bring you. Plus only being able to save via sleep (and the lack of fast travel), at any point you can suddenly lose out on 45 minutes of gameplay from a landmine or surprisingly tough enemy. Fallout 4 survival magnifies every element of game play design to the point that no elements of the game are taken for granted like so much is in normal mode.

Play survival mode.

*edit*
...but stay away from that ballistic weave. It breaks the balance and tension of survival.

Sound tedious and annoying and an excuse for terrible game design. No offense. I don't think switching the difficulty will change my opinion on those quests. It wouldn't be as bad since you get ambushed with them at times and they are almost always kill kill kill

ANOTHER SETTLEMENT NEEDS YOUR HELP! BUILD A RADIO TOWER!

 

[happyninja42]

In a figurative sense.

Because you've done everything you can with the character. It literally can't change or grow anymore because you hit the level cap.

Every character I stop playing forever is essentially dead, in a figurative sense. Whether they got to the 100% completion or not. Their existence has stopped entirely, so they're dead.

What's your point?

 

[kenu12345]

If the emergent game play design is good enough, your character never dies because there's a nigh infinite amount of micro-situations for them to get into and figure ways out of.

fallout 4 and GTA V are excellent examples of this point.

I just wanted to say Fallout 4 is a horrible example of this to where the 'emergent game design' messed with the quality of the game. There really ain't as much interesting quests out there and those repeating quests are almost unavoidable at times to picking up and its frustrating especially after you realise that its just spawning random enemies in random areas that it wants you to kill. Once had to help a settlement with a ghoul problem from ghouls on the other side of the map

I only play the game on the new survival mode. Even those random repeated fetch quests turn into an adventure without the ability to save or take any real damage. You never know what a walk out of that settlement will bring you. Plus only being able to save via sleep (and the lack of fast travel), at any point you can suddenly lose out on 45 minutes of gameplay from a landmine or surprisingly tough enemy. Fallout 4 survival magnifies every element of game play design to the point that no elements of the game are taken for granted like so much is in normal mode.

Play survival mode.

*edit*
...but stay away from that ballistic weave. It breaks the balance and tension of survival.

Sound tedious and annoying and an excuse for terrible game design. No offense. I don't think switching the difficulty will change my opinion on those quests. It wouldn't be as bad since you get ambushed with them at times and they are almost always kill kill kill

You're wrong. It's far more than a difficulty shift. It's a shift in game play design on the overall. All of what you just wrote is inaccurate supposition. It's not tedious at all (if you go into it expecting a more nuanced experience), no more so than any of the stalker games (which is what this new mode feels the most like). Calling it merely a difficulty shift is reductive.

And I think saying everything I said is wrong is reductive too. Another mission you are forced to take to clear another area doesn't suddenly become something else just cause you can't save. The difficulty may have changed, artificially if you ask me since you just have to start further off, but the mission is still the same drab 'kill everything' mission. Sorry but having to start an hour back cause I get stuck in a rock or am surprised by a legendary enemy is tedious and boring since I would be going back exactly the same way. I can tell you are passionate bout fallout 4 but nothing can change what I said about those quests and how dumb they are

 

[Zombie Proof]

If the emergent game play design is good enough, your character never dies because there's a nigh infinite amount of micro-situations for them to get into and figure ways out of.

fallout 4 and GTA V are excellent examples of this point.

I just wanted to say Fallout 4 is a horrible example of this to where the 'emergent game design' messed with the quality of the game. There really ain't as much interesting quests out there and those repeating quests are almost unavoidable at times to picking up and its frustrating especially after you realise that its just spawning random enemies in random areas that it wants you to kill. Once had to help a settlement with a ghoul problem from ghouls on the other side of the map

I only play the game on the new survival mode. Even those random repeated fetch quests turn into an adventure without the ability to save or take any real damage. You never know what a walk out of that settlement will bring you. Plus only being able to save via sleep (and the lack of fast travel), at any point you can suddenly lose out on 45 minutes of gameplay from a landmine or surprisingly tough enemy. Fallout 4 survival magnifies every element of game play design to the point that no elements of the game are taken for granted like so much is in normal mode.

Play survival mode.

*edit*
...but stay away from that ballistic weave. It breaks the balance and tension of survival.

Sound tedious and annoying and an excuse for terrible game design. No offense. I don't think switching the difficulty will change my opinion on those quests. It wouldn't be as bad since you get ambushed with them at times and they are almost always kill kill kill

You're wrong. It's far more than a difficulty shift. It's a shift in game play design on the overall. All of what you just wrote is inaccurate supposition. It's not tedious at all (if you go into it expecting a more nuanced experience), no more so than any of the stalker games (which is what this new mode feels the most like). Calling it merely a difficulty shift is reductive.

And I think saying everything I said is wrong is reductive too. Another mission you are forced to take to clear another area doesn't suddenly become something else just cause you can't save. The difficulty may have changed, artificially if you ask me since you just have to start further off, but the mission is still the same drab 'kill everything' mission. Sorry but having to start an hour back cause I get stuck in a rock or am surprised by a legendary enemy is tedious and boring since I would be going back exactly the same way. I can tell you are passionate bout fallout 4 but nothing can change what I said about those quests and how dumb they are

Hmmm...for some reason you keep glazing over my mentions of the shift in game play balance that this new mode brings and only focusing on the difficulty itself. A useful allegory to help you understand better would be to think of how the enemies tactics in fear get better the higher the diffuculy. You don't just take less hits and they take more, their tactics become better henceforth introducing multiple instances of gameplay nuance that weren't present before. Suddenly, all of those items skills and perks that you were allowed to take for granted in normal mode become necessary for use. The difficulty isn't just upped, the variety of gameplay nuance on a whole is magnified. A walk from a to b becomes the maintenance of food, water, antibiotics, ammo, and items (dat carry weight nerf).

The quests themselves aren't any more or less interesting than the faction quests you get in Stalker, yet that game is heralded because of its atmosphere, varied gameplay nuance, and unpredictability brought forth by the many emergent game play elements. The reason why I say your take on walking from point a to b is so reductive in the instance of fallout 4 survival is because all of the above elements (and many and more that I fail to mention at the moment) turns a walk from a to b into a microcosmic adventure the likes of which are different every single time you engage in it. The tactics through which you engage in the enemies are equally amplified by the extra nuance.

So whenever you want a new unpredictable game play experience that provides challenge and fulfilling engagements, those walks from point a to be become these wonderful opportunities to experience something new and engaging every single time. I'm pressing the point because I'm trying to communicate the extra context that I've gained on the issue of fallout 4 survival from my 200+ hours spent with it on my level 122 character. You seem to be coming from the perspective of someone who's spent a bit of time in normal mode and grew weary of the lack of incentive to engage (which I can totally understand).

Fallout 4 survival is a different beast entirely though.

 

[Catnip1024]

Well, you can't expect the writers to write an eternal set of good things to do, because the mechanics and location will get old eventually. I prefer endings Dragon Age Origins style, where it does a summary of what happened next and the game ends. Leaving you in there is just an anticlimax.

And?

On a separate note, I am apparently also not alive. I don't gain levels.

You just aren't trying hard enough. Just run around jumping all the time, and you'll max out in no time. Oh, and put some points into stealth, you'll need it at the first boss fight.

 

[FakeSympathy]

This is my one problem with open world games; Once you complete everything in a open world game, there really isn't much to do until the new dlc. Also, usually at the end of these games the character you played as leaves that world, completely breaking the immersion when you can still play after the game was completed.

 

[happyninja42]

This is my one problem with open world games; Once you complete everything in a open world game, there really isn't much to do until the new dlc. Also, usually at the end of these games the character you played as leaves that world, completely breaking the immersion when you can still play after the game was completed.

How is this any different from any game ever? Running out of content isn't unique to open world games. All games have a beginning and end, and once you've reached that end....that's it. You are just as resigned to playing repeat content when playing PacMan as you are playing Skyrim.

I don't understand why open world games get this as a negative mark, when it's something just built into any finite game. It has a specific amount of content, no matter what genre it is. Yet for some reason people criticize open world games for this, but ignore it with other games? Do you have this same problem when you beat God of War? And thus had no new content to play? What about any of the Uncharted games? They all have finite content.

 

[Zombie Proof]

This is my one problem with open world games; Once you complete everything in a open world game, there really isn't much to do until the new dlc. Also, usually at the end of these games the character you played as leaves that world, completely breaking the immersion when you can still play after the game was completed.

How is this any different from any game ever? Running out of content isn't unique to open world games. All games have a beginning and end, and once you've reached that end....that's it. You are just as resigned to playing repeat content when playing PacMan as you are playing Skyrim.

I don't understand why open world games get this as a negative mark, when it's something just built into any finite game. It has a specific amount of content, no matter what genre it is. Yet for some reason people criticize open world games for this, but ignore it with other games? Do you have this same problem when you beat God of War? And thus had no new content to play? What about any of the Uncharted games? They all have finite content.

You make some pretty phenomenal points there man. I'd even take it a step further in that good open world games, the ones with the right balance to their emergent gameplay design should be heralded for allowing you to find your own fun with their tools post-story, not lambasted.

 

[Zenja]

And?

On a separate note, I am apparently also not alive. I don't gain levels.

I don't age, I level up. I even have a hoodie that says so. I am almost level 40!

 

[Strazdas]

Not sure the discussion value of this thread. Yes, the characters are "dead" in a sense that they are no longer being played because the user has done everything and is bored of it. that is unless they start the game over and thus the character is "alive" again. But since game characters are not real things their death is not a big deal.

I'd even take it a step further in that good open world games, the ones with the right balance to their emergent gameplay design should be heralded for allowing you to find your own fun with their tools post-story, not lambasted.

Completely agree. Take GTA 5 as an example. Just call a taxi and take a ride across the map. Purely emergent gameplay and yet it will be a journey no other game will offer you and youll be hard pressed to get it repeated on any consistent basis.