Akane No Kill and possible misogyny: a follow up to Anime and Female Charcters

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Hochmeister

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Jun 2, 2011
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This person is entirely overreacting to Akame ga Kill. Let's take a look:

Yeah, the long and short of it is that it doesn't matter how capable the assassins are or aren't around Tatsumi, or how many times they rescue him vs. he rescues them. I mean, that is important as a signifier of how progressive something is or isn't, but my point is that it doesn't matter if the Night Raid ladies rescued Tatsumi 100% of the time, because in this case it would still be misogynistic because AkG is pretty egregious on that count.
On the one hand it doesn't matter if the female assassins are capable and rescue the male lead, even though "that is important as a signifier of how progressive something is or isn't" ? Sounds to me like she's already made her mind up about the issue. The thing is, this is probably one of the most important ways that AgK is quite progressive. In virtually all harems the male lead always goes around solving women's problems, and then they fall in love with him. White-knighting fedora fantasy logic at its finest. In AgK, the female (and male) assassins are usually put above Tatsumi by virtue of being stronger, more experienced, and more senior to him. Instead of the uber male coming in and saving all the helpless women, they're always having to help him out and worry about him getting killed. Definitely not sexist in that respect.

Those characters are thinly-veiled stereotypes frequently fetishized by a voyeuristic camera (sometimes pointlessly, as in the "hilarious" x-ray vision scene), "sexily" tormented and dismembered, and fascinated by the presence of Tatsumi/characterized as though they want his package, just because he's our hero protagonist.
So there's fanservice in anime. Yeah, it's annoying, but what do you expect. Still, it's hardly the worst fanservice I've seen, and there's plenty of fanservice for the ladies as well. And I'd hardly say that they're all characterized as wanting to hop into bed with him; they're mainly characterized as caring about him as a friend and as a new member of their close-knit group. The only clear cut case of someone being romantically interested in him is crazy psycho lady Esdeath. Perhaps I've watched too much harem BS over the years, but the character dynamics in this show are different and far better than the typical harem BS.

It's a fantasy scenario for the viewer in Tatsumi's place, and their personalities are all sculpted to tailor whatever personality the viewer might fetishize first and foremost. All other characterization outside of "tsundere," "genki," etc., is minimal and secondary. Admittedly, it's less noticeable in AkG because all characters male and female are pretty stock/stereotype-y, but there are way more female characters than male, and they are all stereotyped by their gender/sex appeal, while the men are not.
She actually does have a good point at the start here. I'd agree that the show has elements of a self insert fantasy where Tatsumi's a somewhat bland everyman so the view can insert himself in his place. And the show does have issues with characterization, but the thing is that this extends to the male and female characters as well. She tries to brush this off by saying that the men are not all characterized like this, but if you think about it they all are as well. Bulat's a fujoshi's wet dream, the other assassin guy's the token perverted nerd, and the evil men are more or less comically evil monsters. So AgK has problems with characterization, but they're equal opportunity problems. Again, she's already made up her mind that the show's sexist and is dismissing anything that doesn't fit that narrative.

This even applies to the villain women. One of them has an unwitting yandere relationship with Tatsumi. (She likes him but she'll hate him when she finds out he killed her mentor...
Now she's just making stuff up. Justice girl didn't show any romantic interest in Tatsumi beyond playing nice friendly cop before showing the audience her psycho side. Again, she's reading too far into the show, and automatically assuming the worst.

The other one is a cold-hearted warrior-ess psycho who finally has her heart melted by seeing Tatsumi's fight prowess, so she drags him off to comically rape him. The new episode hasn't aired yet, so I don't know how that's going to go down, but the predatory horny slut making rape funny/sexy is incredibly offensive, and if it does the whole "the Night Raid members find out about it and get angry because Tatsumi is in bed with the enemy (instead of them)," that will be wholly unsurprising and even more vile.
Again, misinterpreting events. I'd hardly say that Esdeath's heart was "melted," or that it was solely his fighting ability that drew her to him. I find the whole thing disturbing as well, because it's a "crazy psycho decides to sexually dominate weaker person" situation. In fact, it would be just as disturbing if not more so if the genders were flipped the other way around. And once more she's already made up her mind and is automatically assuming the absolute worst will happen in the show.

Yes anime overall has problems with sexism. Yes Akame ga Kill has some sexist issues (male self insert character, fanservice, and some harem elements). But being hyperbolic and hypocritical over a show that's far better than most in terms of sexism doesn't do your arguments any favor.
 

Risingblade

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Mar 15, 2010
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Why is no one talking about how this anime has one of the most badass gay characters in anime? .-.
 

MrHide-Patten

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Jun 10, 2009
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I looked into detail with the show as I liked the whole Imperial Arms thing and wondered what the rest were like, and found out that he does settle with one of them, won't say who for spoiler reasons.

But I can clearly see the whole Women to man ratio is staggering, and how they have some romantic affections for him is a bit much. I don't agree with the contempt to Esdeath though, she's perhaps one of my favourite characters, she's like a dominatrix with a Military position.

So could the show be better, yes, do I think it's better then a lot of shows for simply having more capable female charcters then male ones, also yes.
 

Relish in Chaos

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Mar 7, 2012
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Nope, I?m not getting into this shit again. I?m not having a go at you, OP, but?I?m just fed up of Western reviewers looking at a piece of fiction from an entirely different culture and labelling it as ?racist?, ?sexist? or ?misogynistic? (btw, fuck that term; 95% of the people I?ve heard liberally use that term don?t bloody know what it actually means), and then?don?t do anything about it, despite having kicked up a fuss in the first place.

I?ve recently been reading Sin City, apparently Frank Miller?s modern comic book take on film noir. A good deal of people have said it?s misogynistic due to the majority of female characters being prostitutes who do not much more than getting fucked or beaten up by men. A lot more people have cited the hypersexualised portrayals of women, and other such associated tropes, as problems of the male-dominated comic book industry. And yet, Sin City has so far received two faithful film adaptations, including actresses who played their parts for all its worth and never seemed to complain. Chances are, it?ll get another adaptation (probably to cover Family Values and Hell and Back).

I quite like Sin City (hackneyed dialogue and inconsistent art aside). I don?t know what that says about me. I don?t know what that?s meant to say about the entertainment we all enjoy. I don?t know, nor do I care all that much. It?s a fucking character. You can claim a character is bad because they?re poorly written, one-dimensional, any of that stuff?but just because they have nothing else going for them than ?teh sexy? doesn?t really tell you anything about the author?s intent, what they think about women, or anything about institutionalised ?isms?. Not without hard facts about this discrimination. Provide them to me, and I?ll gladly concede my argument. Otherwise, we?ll be on this rollercoaster forever, and it ain?t getting any more fun.
 

Pinkamena

Stuck in a vortex of sexy horses
Jun 27, 2011
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CaptainCoxwaggle said:
All females in Japanese anime are created to have sex appeal, with the exception of old women and ugly girls used as jokes and villains. Akane no Kill isn't any more misogynistic then any other anime, and possibly less so as it has women fighting and dying in quite a visually horrible manner (going by the manga at least). If you do think fanservice and fetishism is misogyny then so be it, all anime is misogynistic, the Japanese don't really care they aren't marketing it to a western audience but rather their own domestic male populace of which I include myself.
I wouldn't say ALL females. I have seen a few where the female characters are as deep as the male ones, and often more central to the plot. Ergo Proxy comes to mind, and Samurai Champloo too, to a lesser extent. I usually prefer anime with little to no overly sexualized female characters (like tengen toppa, Yoko got on my fucking nerves). Of course, if it's taken full out for comedic and stylistic purposes, I'm all over it. I loved Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt, for example.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

Anime Nerds Unite
Apr 25, 2013
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Relish in Chaos said:
Nope, I?m not getting into this shit again. I?m not having a go at you, OP, but?I?m just fed up of Western reviewers looking at a piece of fiction from an entirely different culture and labelling it as ?racist?, ?sexist? or ?misogynistic? (btw, fuck that term; 95% of the people I?ve heard liberally use that term don?t bloody know what it actually means), and then?don?t do anything about it, despite having kicked up a fuss in the first place.

I?ve recently been reading Sin City, apparently Frank Miller?s modern comic book take on film noir. A good deal of people have said it?s misogynistic due to the majority of female characters being prostitutes who do not much more than getting fucked or beaten up by men. A lot more people have cited the hypersexualised portrayals of women, and other such associated tropes, as problems of the male-dominated comic book industry. And yet, Sin City has so far received two faithful film adaptations, including actresses who played their parts for all its worth and never seemed to complain. Chances are, it?ll get another adaptation (probably to cover Family Values and Hell and Back).

I quite like Sin City (hackneyed dialogue and inconsistent art aside). I don?t know what that says about me. I don?t know what that?s meant to say about the entertainment we all enjoy. I don?t know, nor do I care all that much. It?s a fucking character. You can claim a character is bad because they?re poorly written, one-dimensional, any of that stuff?but just because they have nothing else going for them than ?teh sexy? doesn?t really tell you anything about the author?s intent, what they think about women, or anything about institutionalised ?isms?. Not without hard facts about this discrimination. Provide them to me, and I?ll gladly concede my argument. Otherwise, we?ll be on this rollercoaster forever, and it ain?t getting any more fun.
Sorry about not replying back earlier but isn't the commant made about Frank MIller that he can only write women as "whores" which works for a film noir like Sin City but not so much for say, All Star Batman and Robin and his portryal of Wonder Woman and Black Canary?

The issue may not be the presence of prostitutes but that he writes so many of them but this is what I've heard other people like Linkara say and not me since I have kept to observing reactions
 

Soviet Heavy

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Jan 22, 2010
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So once again, people consider a subjective review to be "wrong". Hope Chapman (Aka JesuOtaku) has been doing this for the past six years or so, and I've followed her stuff for a while. She comes down hard on anime that objectify women. Granted, I haven't watched this show and have no intention to, but reading the review she put up, even if this show isn't misogynistic, it looks like it still adheres to a number of conventions in fanservice anime that Chapman takes umbrage with. How else would you expect her to act?

But she's apparently wrong, because reasons. "Why would she watch the show if she didn't like it?" Because that's her job.
"The strongest character in the show is a woman!" And that somehow invalidates her opinions? "She's uninformed, because I like the show!" What's your point?
 

grassgremlin

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Aug 30, 2014
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The problem about misogyny and anything japanese is . . .
. . . well, it's not really a problem if you're not the target demograph . . .
. . . and by the target demograph, I mean Japanese Otaku . . . which you are not . . .
. . . you're American.

See where I'm going with this. This is one of the few discussions where I can safely state is all we're really doing is criticizing japan behind a solid brick wall.

All you can really say is darn those Kooky Japanese Otaku and their anime girl fetishm.

I'm just glad we get a few gems here sometimes.
 

EmpReb

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Sep 5, 2014
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Risingblade said:
Why is no one talking about how this anime has one of the most badass gay characters in anime? .-.
I have no idea. Just the idea of THIS anime of all things is sexist just surprises me how weird people minds can become vs mine. Though other people have said the same about me.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

Anime Nerds Unite
Apr 25, 2013
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Made a follow up to this discussion here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.861217-Follow-up-to-Akame-ga-Kill-discussion-and-Three-Episode-review#21422190] and having actually seen the first three episodes, I'm pissed to say the least
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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*sigh*

Among entertainment industries, anime is one which uses sexuality in the most blatant and over-the-top manners possible without always being X-rated. That said, it's also one of the most self-aware entertainment industries that use sex and sexuality to its advantage. Divinity: Original Sin was made, and people cried out about how the female character had such skimpy armor compared to the male counterpart. The fact that people took umbrage with this was a surprise to the developer, and they changed the artwork to quell the masses. On the other hand, I've never seen Akane No Kill, but in Kill la Kill the entire premise of the show is women in skimpy power armor--and acceptance and pride in the skimpiness is the key to unlocking the armor's full potential.

The difference between these two situations is the point of Divinity isn't the sexualization of women. That was just an unintentional message that came from the artist's aesthetic choice. Kill la Kill, on the other hand, was designed specifically around that and thrives on that and the many other over-the-top aspects of that crazy world. While anime will almost always blow western media out of the water when it comes to sexualizing women, I don't think it's as much of a problem because over there it is extremely deliberate and self-aware. The problem with sexualization in other media is when it's unintentional--when the situation isn't supposed to be sexual, but it turns out that way anyway because the artists seem to be incapable of drawing or displaying women in ways that aren't sexual.

That is why I have a problem with the way women are portrayed in games but I don't care a whit about how women are portrayed in anime, for the most part. Sometimes I have problems with it if it uproots previous themes in the show or just completely derails into something the show never was originally (for example, the latter half of the first season of Sword Art Online). But overall as long as the creators are aware of the ways they are displaying women, it takes quite a bit for me to say they shouldn't display women that way.