Aliens/ancient astronauts : do you believe in them?

[FFHAuthor]

*A small note, this is from a British perspective, where these two theories are seen as seperate schools of though, in America Post-Processualism is seen as a development of Processualism. Both sides have their critics and there followers. I would tend towards PP.

I hope this would demonstrate that Archaeological interpretations of artifacts are not just simply 'what is this I see before me'.

Interesting, I did not know that. Though, I am not an archaeologist. I'm just someone who asks questions, a lot of questions. The thing is I keep asking questions and I get two types of thing Hookah, I get answers, or I get my questions laughed at. And I find more and more often that when I ask questions and take views about ancient astronauts I get the type of responses that you gave.

-I'm smarter than you, you're an idiot, I won't respond to something so trivial.

-Your questions are misinformed so I won't respond to something so trivial.

Tell me, how much faith do you think that engenders in the people who listen to those learned scholars like you if the only answers that people like me receive are the answers that tell me I'm a fool and shouldn't be asking questions?

 

[Ticonderoga117]

Believe? No. Does that mean I think they don't exist: no.

I rate it at probable but not likely.

 

[BrassButtons]

I'll just add on a rider about the technological development of the pyramids, the pyramids cited, the step, the reduced angle one all are attributed to pharaohs that reigned after Khufu

No. The Step Pyramid was built during the reign of Djoser (2630-2612 BC) and the Bent Pyramid was built during the reign of Snefru (2612?2589 BC). Khufru reigned between 2558?2532 BC. I've encountered no timelines that put Djoser or Snefru after Khufru (but if you have one, please share). My dates all come from Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids#Construction_dates], and while I know Wikipedia isn't the best source other sources that I checked held the same information. Some had slightly different dates, but none changed the order of the pharaohs.

 

[FFHAuthor]

No. The Step Pyramid was built during the reign of Djoser (2630-2612 BC) and the Bent Pyramid was built during the reign of Snefru (2612?2589 BC). Khufru reigned between 2558?2532 BC. I've encountered no timelines that put Djoser or Snefru after Khufru (but if you have one, please share). My dates all come from Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids#Construction_dates], and while I know Wikipedia isn't the best source other sources that I checked held the same information. Some had slightly different dates, but none changed the order of the pharaohs.

Well, the bulk of my information has come from Stichin so I can only say, interesting, I stand corrected.

 

[imperialwar]

Why would aliens mess with our development ? why would aliens leave a perfectly good resource planet behind ?
I think these questions answer each other.
Send out a fast scout ship, find a planet with resources and a local fauna capable of learning tricks. help it reach the stage it can make use of the resources. Head back home report the planet to the big chiefs. they send out a bigger / slower resource ship to come pick up the goods. even the scout ship takes 1000 years to get back and the resource ship takes a few thousand more. They get around dying in space by downloading their consciousness into a computer that then down loads them back into cloned bodies once they get here.

why would aliens come here and mess with us and then just leave ?
ever played sim city on the slowest speed ALL the time ? you got bored pretty quick huh
or maybe playing civilization manually controlling ever unit ?
maybe its a case of it wasnt as much fun as they thought it'd be.

I often like to think the end of the Mayan calander was due to the alien over lords returning to check on us.

Do I believe anything ive said here 100% ? of course not, but it makes for a fun thought exercise.

 

[BrassButtons]

Well, the bulk of my information has come from Stichin so I can only say, interesting, I stand corrected.

I would hope that you would also say "perhaps I should do more research into the other claims I gave as well".

 

[FFHAuthor]

Well, the bulk of my information has come from Stichin so I can only say, interesting, I stand corrected.

I would hope that you would also say "perhaps I should do more research into the other claims I gave as well".

Actually BrassButtons, the entire point of my arguments in this thread is that I actually do keep asking questions, not that I've stopped. Perhaps you would do well to remember that individuals who hold different beliefs than you aren't fools, they have simply learned different things. You might find the people you provide information to more willing to listen to you on other topics.

 

[Dinwatr]

"Asking questions" IS WORTHLESS. Only by diligently pursuing the answers do we learn anything. Questions are limitless--after all, I can ask "Are demons shaking the atoms in my coffee to keep it hot?" After all, I'm keeping asking questions! Science and a rational epistemology is about ANSWERS, because only by answers do we move anything forward, even something as simple as a conversation. Tentative answers to be sure, and always open to revision, but answers none the less.

"Asking questions" is nothing more than pretending ignorance for the sake of pretending ignorance. It's ignoring the fact that there's doubt that's not reasonable.

 

[BrassButtons]

Actually BrassButtons, the entire point of my arguments in this thread is that I actually do keep asking questions, not that I've stopped.

You didn't know that a very basic claim you were making was wrong. I'm not saying you haven't been asking question, I'm saying you haven't done basic research. Which you clearly haven't, or you wouldn't have said that Djoser and Snefru came after Khufru.

Perhaps you would do well to remember that individuals who hold different beliefs than you aren't fools, they have simply learned different things.

I haven't called you a fool. Wrong, yes. Fool, no.

 

[FFHAuthor]

I haven't called you a fool. Wrong, yes. Fool, no.

Of course.

 

[FFHAuthor]

"Asking questions" IS WORTHLESS. Only by diligently pursuing the answers do we learn anything. Questions are limitless--after all, I can ask "Are demons shaking the atoms in my coffee to keep it hot?" After all, I'm keeping asking questions! Science and a rational epistemology is about ANSWERS, because only by answers do we move anything forward, even something as simple as a conversation. Tentative answers to be sure, and always open to revision, but answers none the less.

"Asking questions" is nothing more than pretending ignorance for the sake of pretending ignorance. It's ignoring the fact that there's doubt that's not reasonable.

I'm surprised you put such a low value upon curiosity.

 

[BrassButtons]

I'm surprised you put such a low value upon curiosity.

He's not putting a low value on curiosity. He's putting a low value on curiosity that ignores data. And there's a good reason for this--if we treat all questions as equally worthwhile, then we'll never get anything done. Moreover, he's saying that even good questions are useless if you don't look for the answer, which you clearly aren't doing (again, you would have known the timeline of the pharaohs if you had actually researched the claim about who built which pyramid).

 

[Jonatron]

As impressive as the pyramids and Nazca lines are, you would have thought that if there were beings capable of interestellar travel we would have something a bit more impressive than simply large ancient structures. Some technology that isn't made out of rocks, for example.

I think that it's ridiculous but can make for a great film.

Yea, like the most recent Indiana Jones movie...

Could have made for a great film. Just not *that* film.

Beside amount of accomplishments that sheer mass of collaborative effort has achieved in the past 100 years alone, the pyramids do not seem that outlandish. Back then they had fascist leaders backed by religious dogma and slavery - these days we have lots of people who learn and discover to earn a living.

 

[FFHAuthor]

You know what, I'm just going to stop. I had been hopeful of bringing up enough to make some people ask a few questions, and perhaps receive something akin to an honest and open response to them from what appears to be three knowledgeable individuals, my attempt has devolved into what discussion of this topic always seems to result in;

-You're a fool, here's why. Which I can accept, since I'm incredibly willing to hear information and learn. But sadly that need always be tinted with 'I'm right you're completely wrong and stupid for believing that'.

-I know far more than you, so why would you believe something so foolish. Which tends to be what is known as credentialism, and tends to be a fancy way of ignoring things that you don't have answers to.

-And an insult of human curiosity, from someone whose profession is based entirely upon it.

Respond as you like to what I believe, and be shocked that I'm willing to actually learn and admit to being misinformed. But don't be surprised when every time something like this occurs, those unwashed and gullible laymen out there are less likely to listen to the academics who dismiss rather than address, and who belittle rather than engage.

 

[Olas]

Had I been asked 10 years ago I'd probably say it's possible. I was a superstitious kid. The problem with conspiracy theories is all the people who argue for them are clearly nutjobs, and those who aren't nutjobs discredit them. So ya.

 

[CODE-D]

I tried watching ancient aliens but every time I do my brain threatens an aneurysm from the sheer stupidity of the "evidence" which are usually this thing resembles spacecraft/suit or we dont know how this was built so aliens of course.

 

[BrassButtons]

You know what, I'm just going to stop.

Why? You've got an opportunity to learn more about a very interesting subject, from people you consider to be "intelligent and knowledgeable".

I had been hopeful of bringing up enough to make some people ask a few questions

You succeeded. I did ask a few questions. I just went a step further, and researched the answers.

and perhaps receive something akin to an honest and open response to them from what appears to be three knowledgeable individuals

And that's exactly what you've gotten, at least from me (won't speak for anybody else, but I think they've been open and honest as well).

You're a fool, here's why. Which I can accept, since I'm incredibly willing to hear information and learn. But sadly that need always be tinted with 'I'm right you're completely wrong and stupid for believing that'.

Did anyone actually call you a fool, or suggest that you're stupid for being wrong? I certainly didn't.

-I know far more than you, so why would you believe something so foolish. Which tends to be what is known as credentialism, and tends to be a fancy way of ignoring things that you don't have answers to.

Again, who has said this?

-And an insult of human curiosity, from someone whose profession is based entirely upon it.

If you're talking about Dinwatr, he has not insulted you. He's strongly disagreed with your point of view, but that's not an insult. After all, we're talking about someone who's scientific field had to make a rule against dynamiting each other's dig sites--when a paleontologist insults you, you'll know it

Respond as you like to what I believe, and be shocked that I'm willing to actually learn and admit to being misinformed.

You don't appear all that willing, though. You're response to being told that you're wrong about several things, and thus probably about others as well, is to be insulted and abandon the thread. That suggests that you wanted us to agree with you, not that you wanted to learn.