Aliens- first to find us, or did our imaginations find them?

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Nova Tendril

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Agayek said:
bowserboy26578 said:
Amoung my friends we've been wondering how aliens could work out. For example, outside of our galaxy, carbon is probably hard to come across. So carbon based life forms- rock men basicaly- are a possibility. there are so many holes in alot of alien theories that I just had to find out what my fellow Escapists had to say. And if you want my technical nerd speak explaination of all the theories we had, just ask. But be ready for a wall of text.
You do realize all life on Earth is carbon-based right?

Also, we could easily see aliens made up of clouds of gas, or resembling the Thing. Really, humanity's approach to aliens in popular media is far too narrow minded. Star Wars is the closest I've yet seen to being somewhat realistic.

Odds are, any alien species we meet will not be bipedal, or humanoid in any sense of the word

I don't get why everyone thinks aliens would be so different from us.
Really? How the flying fuck would they be anything even remotely similar to us? They evolved on a different planet in a, most likely, vastly different environment and other animals. There is not the slightest chance in hell that we will stumble across aliens that are similar to us in the vast majority of aspects.

Physically, it's almost a guarantee they will look massively different, and culturally it's highly likely they will as well. There is a slim chance their culture/ideals may reflect ours, but it's remote.
There's a reason why Earth is the only planet we know about that has life on it. The window for creation of an environment that can actually support life is very small. An environment that can support advanced life would most likely be very similar to ours.
 

Arrers

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Pseudonym2 said:
It reminds me of ancient Greece. There must must be monsters over there! Just beyond the horizon, just beyond where anybody can reach. Now our monsters come from space.

Compare Star Trek with the Odyssey. A lost ship travels odd planet/island to planet/island while the captain sleeps with the women and the red shirts die.
I've made that comparison as well, they're really similar (especially the redshirt bit).
 

Kiutu

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If space is infinite then aliens are almost definatly real. My reason for this is all about probablility and according to it aliens COULD not exist too but thats as likely as flipping a coin a billion times and always getting heads. It COULD happen but would it? So most likely there are other races out there somewhere. Will humans ever meet them? Maybe, maybe not.
 

ae86gamer

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What if were the aliens. OOOOOO plot twist.
Anyways if aliens are real we are not gonna be finding them any time soon.
 

Skeleon

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For example, outside of our galaxy, silicon is probably hard to come across. So carbon based life forms- rock men basicaly- are a possibility
I think you got that turned around, WE're carbon-based, rock men would be the siliconoids.
Anyway, I'm sure there's other life out there, but I doubt we'll ever meet it.
First of all, while the universe might be endless, humanity probably isn't. Furthermore, the distances between star systems and galaxies are just so unimaginably vast, it would take thousands of years just to get to places where theoretically life (at least life that SOMEHOW resembles us) could exist. And even if we came to such a place, a species might've lived there millions of years ago or something, humans aren't very old and who knows how many civilizations have come into existence and vanished again before the first ferret scrambled through the undergrowths of Earth, trying to avoid that big dinosaur foot.
So, no: While I'm certain intelligent alien life exists somewhere (the universe is just too big for us to be the only ones), I doubt we'll ever meet it. If we're REALLY lucky, we'll find some remnants or non-intelligent life.
 

Lullabye

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SO, basically the only way we'll find aliens is if they find us or we take a thousand year voyage cross space which may or may not be successful?....i say let em come to us. we'll colonize our surrounding close starsystems and if we find em whoo hoo for us. But seriously lets just keep it at mild suspicion. On that note, if aliens do find us then hopefully they have all our curiosity and none of our........yeah....... Any body ever read enders game?(if not i recommend it very much) that is what i feel would happn to us when we meet aliens.
 

Agayek

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Nova Tendril said:
There's a reason why Earth is the only planet we know about that has life on it. The window for creation of an environment that can actually support life is very small. An environment that can support advanced life would most likely be very similar to ours.
Why? Give me a scientific reason for it, preferably with a link to a reputable source.

There could be alien life that exists as clouds of gas, or as sentient rocks. In our current understanding of the universe, it could well be just as you say, but it's awfully arrogant to assume we've learned everything there is to know.

I'm not saying definitively either way, but there is a distinct possibility that there's life on Jupiter, it's just so vastly different from us that we cannot think of what to look for.

Assuming all life in the universe will follow the steps of human evolution, and be bound by our current laws of science is a horribly flawed frame of mind.
 

Nova Tendril

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Agayek said:
Nova Tendril said:
There's a reason why Earth is the only planet we know about that has life on it. The window for creation of an environment that can actually support life is very small. An environment that can support advanced life would most likely be very similar to ours.
Why? Give me a scientific reason for it, preferably with a link to a reputable source.

There could be alien life that exists as clouds of gas, or as sentient rocks. In our current understanding of the universe, it could well be just as you say, but it's awfully arrogant to assume we've learned everything there is to know.

I'm not saying definitively either way, but there is a distinct possibility that there's life on Jupiter, it's just so vastly different from us that we cannot think of what to look for.

Assuming all life in the universe will follow the steps of human evolution, and be bound by our current laws of science is a horribly flawed frame of mind.
I'd like to see any evidence to suggest otherwise. If life was truly capable of flourishing in such a large variety of environments then why is Earth the only planet in this Solar system that supports advanced life?
 

FallenRainbows

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McClaud said:
Thunderhitler said:
I thought stroking the ego was the only thing that writers had going for them
Well, depending on the writer. The crazier you get, the more ego-stroking you have to have, apparently. Will to Power was not bad, but you can see how it was quickly written to try and appease a fanbase of people who liked Nietzche.

I didn't write my dissertation for my own purposes. I wrote it to share my data with other sociologists who were presently conducting a study on kids getting mentally older faster than in previous generations. I may publish something else again, and it may not be psychology or sociology related. I don't have any real desire to start something that would get out of control or stay in my own terms.
Sorry to off-topic but im intrested here, What do you mean getting mentaly older faster; As in intelligence, maturity or perhaps a probabilty that a couple of kids somewhere will actaully love rather than "I'd Tap That Bruv"? Or something else entirley?

Anyway, sorry about that, On-topic.
Aliens Almost certainly exist and they will almost certainly be carbon bassed and as for the humaniod thing, To produce life the condition must be very specific so mayhap they evolve in the way we do, unlikley yet a posibility.
 

FallenRainbows

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ae86gamer said:
What if were the aliens. OOOOOO plot twist.
Anyways if aliens are real we are not gonna be finding them any time soon.
We are aliens, but not to ourselves. To our aliens we are aliens, Tell me you understand last time I had to explain I ended up talking about paradoxes, Im not sure how...

EDIT: Sorry that was meant to be an edit to my previous post, I know, I should Have checked sorry...
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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Nova Tendril said:
I'd like to see any evidence to suggest otherwise. If life was truly capable of flourishing in such a large variety of environments then why is Earth the only planet in this Solar system that supports advanced life?
How do you know there's no advanced life? They could be in the heart of Jupiter, where I'm fairly certain we have yet to send a probe, or out on the dark side of Pluto. Or they may even not have the technology to have cities, or their cities may be deep underground. Maybe there's a society of aliens vaguely resembling a Shoggoth buried deep under the crust of Venus. Maybe instead the life forms that evolved on Mars exist in 6 dimensions, and so we couldn't understand them even if we did see them.

My whole point is that we simply do not know what's out there and to assume otherwise is completely asinine. You are probably right, at least insofar as our own system, but that does not preclude the existence of other life forms. We do not know everything, making any definitive statements on the matter is the height of foolishness.
 

Nova Tendril

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Agayek said:
Nova Tendril said:
I'd like to see any evidence to suggest otherwise. If life was truly capable of flourishing in such a large variety of environments then why is Earth the only planet in this Solar system that supports advanced life?
How do you know there's no advanced life? They could be in the heart of Jupiter, where I'm fairly certain we have yet to send a probe, or out on the dark side of Pluto. Or they may even not have the technology to have cities, or their cities may be deep underground. Maybe there's a society of aliens vaguely resembling a Shoggoth buried deep under the crust of Venus. Maybe instead the life forms that evolved on Mars exist in 6 dimensions, and so we couldn't understand them even if we did see them.

My whole point is that we simply do not know what's out there and to assume otherwise is completely asinine. You are probably right, at least insofar as our own system, but that does not preclude the existence of other life forms. We do not know everything, making any definitive statements on the matter is the height of foolishness.
Your missing the point. Think about why these planets in our solar system do not support life. It's because life simply can not naturally exist in such environments. The only other life in this solar system are the microbes bellow the frozen ocean on one of Jupiters moons. Even then the only life that can exist are incredibly primitive microbes.

The factors you need to create a habitable environment are nearly impossible to meet. It rarely happens. It's incredibly unlikely that there are habitable environments that differ greatly from that of Earth.
 

Hunde Des Krieg

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MattiusCaesar said:
This whole thread needs to take a step down from Science Fiction and do some research.

1st - That whole inorganic/organic thing. It can't be living because its not organic? We invented the stupid word, lol. Means nothing, its a convenient way for us to classify between different kinds of molecules that is quickly becoming out-dated (perhaps because of statements like that).

2nd - There is no carbon outside our galaxy? Say whaaaaaat? The theory (now anyways) is that stars collected elements, performed that beautiful reaction known as fusion for billions of years, then exploded. Since everything was mostly protons (Hydrogen) before stars formed, it was the exploding starts that distributed all the other elements. We are all made of stardust, from one time or another. Since a galaxy is a spinning collection of starts, it would be odd to say that other galaxies didn't have carbon, it seeming to be a fairly common element as far as star-byproducts go.

3rd - Silicon based life. Life is essentially a result of the (some would say spontaneous) assembly of smaller molecules to form bigger molecules. Over time, with the right conditions, life as we know it got pretty complex. Think back to when everything must have just been a bunch of proteins, or a floating strand of RNA...lots simpler. It might even have happened randomly! We call it self-assembly when its really simple. Mix the right things together under the right conditions, let 'em stew for awhile, and bam, something way more complex then its component parts forms! I recently read in one of the science journals (maybe Scientific American) that Silicon-based self-assembly has already been proven possible. So, if self-assembly is possible, you just need to have a series of more-or-less ideal conditions for a very long period of time and a bit of shaking/stewing to get something that might resemble life. Theoretically, we already know it can happen. An old episode of the original Star Trek is the first thing I know of to have made that silicon-based life => 'rock men' connection. Less rock men though then rock blobs.

4th - Trolls. Ignore them, lame.

5th - Aliens. Given the size of the universe, it is statistically inconceivable that life didn't already happen somewhere else. Whether its happening now, though, whether it is as intelligent as us, or more-so, whether it is close enough for us to reach in a human life-time...all of these we don't know. We can guess and hope and make predictions, but sadly we don't have enough information to make really accurate ones. We're working on it.

6th - What will aliens look like? Well, we can only look at Earth-life as an example so far. On earth, our DNA has been a prime factor in how our bodies our structured. Given the way we reproduce, if you go back far enough, we all have a common ancestor. (Happy flower time, we're all actually brothers and sisters! You, me, and the cow you ate for dinner...) This common ancestor seems to only have had a specific general set of body layouts. For example, all animals have four limbs and a tail (yeah, humans too, re: the tail bone). We all have similar bone structures (some bones just grew bigger or smaller or got re-purposed). We all have two eyes, olfactory, mouth, tongue, etc. You get the picture. Aliens from a different world, IF they were using DNA (I have no idea how likely/unlikely that is) or something similar too it, would have the same type of issues: their evolution would largely revolve around the success of a common ancestor that lived millions of years before they developed human-style intelligence and technology. So take a look at all the weirdest sea creatures you can find and try and imagine what they might look like if they were to hop up on land and start pillaging their world's resources. Thats what aliens *might* look like. They also might look like Klingons, in a bizarre twist of fate, and be horribly offended by Star Trek when they first learn about it.

Hm...hope that covered all the bases and cleared things up. Oh wait...

7th - The whole aliens among us thing. This has been recurring throughout history. Humans 'imagine' up creatures to which they attribute special 'powers' or 'features' and blame for things going right or wrong, or even sending them messages or tasks. It is either one of the most pervasive hoaxes in human history, the most over-looked psychological defect in human history, OR there might actually be some merit to what is going on with that. I kinda prefer the idea of mysterious powers among us, as I don't believe in coincidence, and like the idea behind it. I, however, don't know enough to make anything more then a preferential statement.
First of all, that star trek joke: Hilarious. Secondly don't forget about insects and other arthropods they are much different from other animals.
 

Hunde Des Krieg

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Nova Tendril said:
Agayek said:
Nova Tendril said:
I'd like to see any evidence to suggest otherwise. If life was truly capable of flourishing in such a large variety of environments then why is Earth the only planet in this Solar system that supports advanced life?
How do you know there's no advanced life? They could be in the heart of Jupiter, where I'm fairly certain we have yet to send a probe, or out on the dark side of Pluto. Or they may even not have the technology to have cities, or their cities may be deep underground. Maybe there's a society of aliens vaguely resembling a Shoggoth buried deep under the crust of Venus. Maybe instead the life forms that evolved on Mars exist in 6 dimensions, and so we couldn't understand them even if we did see them.

My whole point is that we simply do not know what's out there and to assume otherwise is completely asinine. You are probably right, at least insofar as our own system, but that does not preclude the existence of other life forms. We do not know everything, making any definitive statements on the matter is the height of foolishness.
Your missing the point. Think about why these planets in our solar system do not support life. It's because life simply can not naturally exist in such environments. The only other life in this solar system are the microbes bellow the frozen ocean on one of Jupiters moons. Even then the only life that can exist are incredibly primitive microbes.

The factors you need to create a habitable environment are nearly impossible to meet. It rarely happens. It's incredibly unlikely that there are habitable environments that differ greatly from that of Earth.
Since when has it been proven there are lifeforms on any moons? There is still no evidence of extra-terrestrial life. Not even within the Solar system. And no that Mars/asteroid doesn't count, because it isn't conclusive.
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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Nova Tendril said:
Your missing the point. Think about why these planets in our solar system do not support life. It's because life simply can not naturally exist in such environments. The only other life in this solar system are the microbes bellow the frozen ocean on one of Jupiters moons. Even then the only life that can exist are incredibly primitive microbes.

The factors you need to create a habitable environment are nearly impossible to meet. It rarely happens. It's incredibly unlikely that there are habitable environments that differ greatly from that of Earth.
You completely missed my point. How do you know life doesn't exist on other planets? It is most definitely not life as we know it, but that does not preclude sentience in some other form. Just because we have not found it and/or can't explain it doesn't mean it does not exist.

As I said before, you are probably right, and there is no other sentient life in the solar system, but to completely dismiss the possibility is foolishness of the highest degree.

Again, since it seems you missed it the last two times I said it:

Don't assume we know everything. Sentient life could exist anywhere, we just haven't knowingly encountered it yet.
 

JoshasorousRex

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Maybe we are the first forms of live EVER. So if we mess this up (as it currently seems) what are the chances that another form of intelligent life won't mess up before they get a chance to build a superduperrocketofawsomeness that can travel many light years in only a few seconds. But of course there are those outliers...

Which makes me ask this question,0 will we the human race live long enough to be contacted by aliens or will we be the ones to contact them?