Always Chaotic Evil?

[TheRealCJ]

I recently read a huge-long article on certain literature tropes that I realise actually make me hate an otherwise perfectly well written book: The case of Always Chaotic Evil characters.

Some examples (and keep in mind I'm only going to name popular titles, for refrence's sake):

- Draco Malfoy in Harry Potter
- The Orcish race of Lord of the Rings
- Any and all 'vermin' in the Redwall series.
- Well, really, too many to name (feel free to add your own examples)

My problem is that All of these characters/races never have any redeeming qualities, not one. J.K. Rowling in particular does this a lot, which really turned me off the later books. Don't trolls love their children too?

I have trouble relating to an author who refuses to see a better side to their 'evil' characters, and indeed, ANY creator who doesn't. Videogames, films, books, everything. It's hard to accept a character as a villain if there's no reason for it other than 'Because I say so, and I created him!'. Mabye I'm just over reading, but I like to get into the mindset of the antagonists as much as I do the protagonists. I like to see the reasoning behind their plot of world domination, to see why they've shunned the population at large, why they're so fucking evil. if they're s psycopath, then have them ACTING like a psychopath, rather than just laughing evilly and then shooting someone.

Wow, all I seem to do is rant in here. So I'll stop this before I think of another thousand words to ramble on in. Ideas?

 

[headshotcatcher]

Yeah it kinda bugs me as well when stuff like that happens, same for the people in sitcoms who are ALWAYS unlucky or ALWAYS lose. However in cartoons this is okay most of the time

 

[high_castle]

First, I wouldn't lump Malfoy in with the rest. Did you read the sixth book? He really struggles with his tasks. It's made pretty clear that he can talk the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk, he's less than thrilled about it. It's also clear in subtext, if Harry had reached out to him, he may have been able to save Malfoy. But Harry had his own prejudices. Both characters have flaw, but neither fits into the mold of Always Chaotic Evil.

That particular trope crops up more in older books than recent titles. You're right about the Tolkien example, but one could also argue they were designed that way. Sarumon bred his own species of orks to be bloodthirsty and cruel. But you're right, the prevalence of this trope is off-putting with modern-day sensibilities. It's a product of its time, much like the Damsel in Distress. When you read it in an older book, try to let it go. When you read it in a recent book, definitely question the author's intention. And remember, too, the villain may or may not be Always Chaotic Evil. As in the Potter case, it might just be the protagonist's personal views coloring the narrative.

 

[goldfox]

It would seem a little more realistic if they had some sort reason for being evil.

 

[Skeleon]

My problem is that All of these characters/races never have any redeeming qualities, not one. J.K. Rowling in particular does this a lot, which really turned me off the later books. Don't trolls love their children too?

Isn't Lupin a nice werewolf, though?
Isn't Hagrid a good Half-Giant facing oppression?
Isn't the ministry-official Umbridge a half-breed hating fear-mongerer?

I agree with you though that many evils are... just evil.
Those aren't particularily deep or realistic. In fact, they're boring.
Of your examples, Tolkien seemed to be the strongest to me, though.
Apart from Boromir and maybe Denethor, pretty much all characters were either completely good or completely evil.
Same thing with Star Wars (at least the movies, I don't know much about the expanded stuff).
And lots and lots of other material...

 

[Hammith]

Cthulhu! Although, many of the mythos creatures could be said to just be so alien in origin that their true motives are unknowable to us, not really letting us put them anywhere on the alignment grid.

In truth, the alignment grid is really just supposed to be a guide to get you started on characters. No truly complex character's motivations or impulses can be described in two words.

 

[Ace of Spades]

I dislike Chaotic Evil since it lacks finesse. Neutral Evil on the other hand is much more interesting. The bastards that are more subtle about their evil.

 

[Cargando]

I hate it when a film/book/game just sticks you in front of a baddie and says 'ths ***** is evil, got it?'. It's very annoying.

Oh, and I'd excuse the orcs too, they were once elves, but they were turned evil by Sauron, so really they were designed to be evil.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Chaotic neutral is the most interesting, simply because it's the hardest to pull off well.

 

[kvenox]

yeah more story about the bad guys!!!

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

A lot of authors and directors like doing chaotic evil because it means their motives aren't as important and so don't have to be particularly good. They can just be mad. And mad people don't have motives apparently. Cue Galbatorix in Christopher Paolini's Inheritance Cycle (although the Urgals are quite well explained).

 

[Sassafrass]

do you really need a reason to be insanely evil?? i don't =)

OT: Malfoy isn't really evil, as he shows some remorse in the sixth book. but books anf film wouldn't be intresting if the bad guy wasn't Chaoticaly Evil.

 

[TheDuckbunny]

That's what I thought was cool about Naruto at first. Zabuza and Haku weren't chaotic evil in the least. Naruto had villains with more backstory than trying to destroy the world. It's a shame that soon died out though.

Yea, I talked about anime in a non-anime thread.

 

[Mordwyl]

Chaotic neutral is the most interesting, simply because it's the hardest to pull off well.

Deadpool.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

My problem is that All of these characters/races never have any redeeming qualities, not one. J.K. Rowling in particular does this a lot, which really turned me off the later books. Don't trolls love their children too?

Isn't Lupin a nice werewolf, though?
Isn't Hagrid a good Half-Giant facing oppression?
Isn't the ministry-official Umbridge a half-breed hating fear-mongerer?

I agree with you though that many evils are... just evil.
Those aren't particularily deep or realistic. In fact, they're boring.
Of your examples, Tolkien seemed to be the strongest to me, though.
Apart from Boromir and maybe Denethor, pretty much all characters were either completely good or completely evil.
Same thing with Star Wars (at least the movies, I don't know much about the expanded stuff).
And lots and lots of other material...

Tolkien made up for that by making non-elf or hobbit characters utterly badass.
Star Wars: What about all times greatest antagonist, good old Darth Vader?

 

[oppp7]

i think brian jacques does that a lot more than j k rowling. basically there r entire RACES that r evil for no apparent reason.

 

[Skeleon]

Tolkien made up for that by making non-elf or hobbit characters utterly badass.

Heh, yeah. Maybe even too much so, which is why I like Boromir so much. One of few truly flawed characters. That makes him interesting.

Star Wars: What about all times greatest antagonist, good old Darth Vader?

Wow, how could I forget about him? Oh wait, maybe my memory got screwed over with that excuse for an emo from the prequel trilogy.
Wasn't Anakin supposed to be a great guy and awesome friend?
He comes across as an angry, arrogant and annoying runt (ah, alliterations!), a person advocating dictatorship and, above all, a mass murderer of women and children (yes, sand people count, too).

Phew, okay, had to blow off a little steam.
Now, if I look at the original Star Wars trilogy completely and utterly on its own again (as one should do), Darth Vader really is a very complex and deep character. Again, flawed, truly flawed, but good at heart. Even though he had forgotten it for so long.

Thank you for helping me see clearly again.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Chaotic neutral is the most interesting, simply because it's the hardest to pull off well.

Deadpool.

"Deadpool.....Never heard of it"


Cookie for the reference.