Alyx Vance, supposedly one of the most developed characters in video games, is bullshit

[Avatar Roku]

snip

While it's true that she does conform to a stereotype, so does every character. It's called "tropes", and that's not a bad thing. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad] Even the characters you like the most or think are the most developed (Yuna, from your example) conform to tropes. I mean, try writing a story or character without tropes [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTropelessTale]. Even if it's successful, it's boring.

Any character you write, from the best characterized to the worst, will fall into tropes, and therefore fit into at least one stereotype, it's just a matter of how overdone those tropes are. The ones used for Alyx (or, I suppose, Yuna, from your example) are used very infrequently, so naturally we'll see them as somewhat better, or at least a breath of fresh air.

 

[ribonuge]

Yeah you're right. They just used a less common archetype found in video games. Still at least Valve is a subtle about it (Yes, i'm looking at you Bayonetta).

 

[Captain Blackout]

Look at it this way: Valve made a step forward on a long road. Other than that all I can say is I didn't know what half your references were and I got it. Nice job, please keep writing, you've obviously got talent.

 

[Ryuk2]

She's a ''girl next door''....so? It's more realistic than others silicon pumped females in other games. And is she the only ''...next door'' character? That black guy is ''friendly black guy next door'', the Barny (or what's he's name) is a ''friendly ..guy next door'' and rebels are cheering when they see you. They all love Gordon.
It doesn't make Alix one dimensional, it makes the game seem more friendly.

 

[Cycloneman]

snip

While it's true that she does conform to a stereotype, so does every character. It's called "tropes", and that's not a bad thing. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad] Even the characters you like the most or think are the most developed (Yuna, from your example) conform to tropes. I mean, try writing a story or character without tropes [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTropelessTale]. Even if it's successful, it's boring.

TV Tropes is atrocious and this page excellently illustrates why. Theater is a trope now. So is literally anything in fiction. Ever. Having a hero is a trope. So is scenery. And words. If you want to examine fiction in the fairly low-brow way of dissecting it and locating common elements, fine. Just don't pretend like "a protagonist" or "rising action" is some kind of cliche or trope or whatever.

Unlike well-developed characters with motivations and such, Alyx Vance's entire personality can be summed up with "implicitly trusts Gordon in a non-sexual way." Her personality is a nonsensical roller-coaster that swaps between "Zombine, heh, get it?" and "Gordon, I'm scared." Why does she trust Gordon? Why does she feel that she can best serve the cause of human liberation by walking around next to Gordon? For that matter, why does she want to kill the Combine?

For that matter, why do any of these people fight them? They just put in gas-masked stormtroopers and assume that it's obvious why there's animosity. Is, say, Barney, mad at the Combine because they stole his old job, or because they killed his friends, or because they enslaved the planet, or because they made him feel powerless?

 

[e2density]

Personally she looks like an ugly lesbian to me, and I have to apply a few skins/mods to make her look attractive...

 

[Mana Fiend]

Not played Half Life (shoot me, I suck at those sorts of games on the PC, and never brought it on the xbox (if it's even out on the console)). But your point about Yuna is a good one. She's my favourite female character in a game, and her journey and closeness with Tidus is what makes the ending so damn powerful. She is the naive, quiet type, but when she makes that moral stand, I can't help but cheep inside (though Auron's speech after makes me cheer too!). It's a good character arc.

 

[Sneaklemming]

I believe that it is your own prejudices that have warped Alyx into the "sexy-babe" type you claim her to be.

Personal bias can change the way you look at things.

 

[boholikeu]

A fairly interesting point, although there are a fair amount of Valve fanboys on here so I wouldn't expect too much agreement.

As for your last part, I'd say that goes for male and female characters, they tend to fit stereotypes or roles rather than feeling like actual human beings. It's easier and that way they can create a target audience, trying to make realistic characters strangely enough would make it hard for players to relate simply because stereotypes are always vague and so they can be related to by most people, whereas realistic characters would have to have much more specific personalities and so wouldn't appeal to the masses as easily.

That's an interesting point. It's true, in movies you're not expected to necessarily relate to the main character but in video games, where you ARE a character things are different. I would disagree however that it's a necessity. For example, Metal Gear Solid 4, snake is an old man, who's seen a lot, who smokes excessively and who's life is almost at an end as he saves the day. The challenges he goes through are nothing like what teens go through yet the game is a wild success and characters are part of the reason. It's true though, it's much harder to pull off successfully.

Very true that this form is pro-Valve (and frankly I am too, just not pro-Alyx), I'm especially interested in what they have to say.

You don't think Old Snake appeals to teenagers? I'm sure he's pretty much the epitome of what every 14 year old boy hopes they are like when they are 60. Plus, the "war-hardened, world-weary soldier" isn't exactly the most original of characters, either.

I see what your saying but I think one of the reasons Alyx gets so much praise is simply because they tried something different with her rather then just go the norm of 'the tough action chick' or'damsel in distress'. Shes not immediatley sexy, pretty modest bust wise and even if you are right, I think its a step up to try and sell a characters appeal through personality and dialoge rather than a huge pair of boobs.

It's true, she's unusual, but she's used a different stereotype that's used (and also VERY well crafted). But Valve fine-tuning her personality is like an artist drawing a super-sexy girl and fine-tuning her body to make her attractive. I say it's very similar and whilst it seems like a step up it's unfortunately the exact same step, just more subtle.

See, this is where I have trouble with your argument.

While I agree with your point to an extent, saying that Alyx isn't a step up from the typical hyper-sexualized bimbos you see in games is a bit much. Attempting to create an emotionally appealing female character is definitely more admirable than simply creating a physically attractive one.

Also, I would argue that within the context of game design Alyx's lack of depth (and every other friendly character's for that matter) is a necessity. Usually, characters in stories are given depth because it makes them more interesting. A good character with personal issues is much more realistic than a perfect hero, after all. In games, however, like-ability can be much more important than rounding out a character. After all, a player might not care about the personal history of a character, but they do care about how a character interacts with them.

The point I'm trying to get at is that Alyx needed to be 2 dimensional because the player needs to like her and know she totally trusts Gordon. True, they could have given her a bit more "personality" (IE negative qualities), but then they run the risk of alienating players. The same goes for almost every other friendly character in HL2, and it's why you don't see much depth outside of the villains.

So yes, Alyx is pretty flat when you look at her through a literary lens, but from a game mechanics perspective there was a lot of work put into her characterization. For the most part it seems to be pretty effective too, given her popularity across both genders.

For that matter, why do any of these people fight them? They just put in gas-masked stormtroopers and assume that it's obvious why there's animosity. Is, say, Barney, mad at the Combine because they stole his old job, or because they killed his friends, or because they enslaved the planet, or because they made him feel powerless?

Pretty sure that's the answer right there. Enslaving the planet is pretty good motivation for ANY human in HL2 to hate the combine =)

 

[Cycloneman]

For that matter, why do any of these people fight them? They just put in gas-masked stormtroopers and assume that it's obvious why there's animosity. Is, say, Barney, mad at the Combine because they stole his old job, or because they killed his friends, or because they enslaved the planet, or because they made him feel powerless?

Pretty sure that's the answer right there. Enslaving the planet is pretty good motivation for ANY human in HL2 to hate the combine =)

Except, as far as I recall, this is never stated or voiced in any fashion. Nor is the counter-argument voiced by the "bad guy" humans, such as Breen. Does he actually believe what he says on the radio? It certainly doesn't seem like that. It's, like I said, assumed that if you put in gas-masked storm troopers then obviously everyone in the world is going to hate them. That doesn't make a motivation though, because a) people have hated a lot of regimes and lived under them peacefully and b) the Combine rule has many problems, so you can't just say "evil Combine" is the reason they're disliked.

Is it because they're aliens? Is it because their rule crushes freedom? Is it because they are biologically altering humans in a way that goes against God? Is it because they are carefully and precisely ensuring that the human species ceases to exist in a few decades' time? Is it because they are killing the planet? Are they resisting simply because Combine rule inconveniences them personally? Are they resisting because humans are being killed?

There are millions of reasons to hate the Combine, but Valve doesn't even explain one. They just vomit out "the Combine won," and "the Combine rule" and put in some areas where you run away from Combine or watch them beat civilians and assume that this is all the explanation you need. You could take many scenes from the game where the Combine's "oppressive regime" is established and put them in the United States and they wouldn't be incredible or unbelievable. The ecological and species-level damage (e.g. loss of oceans, destruction of environment, sterilization of the people) is the most declared and egregious damage, are we meant to assume that the characters hate the Combine because they're eating the ocean?

 

[Cycloneman]

There are millions of reasons to hate the Combine, but Valve doesn't even explain one.

So what exactly do you want, a Valve employee to pop on your screen and go "Hey, i'm Bob from Valve. We feel you don't know exactly what the combine have done to this world and can't take a hint from our subtle clues, so we're going to show you with these detailed maps and flowcharts."?

No, the problem is that none of the characters are given motivations. I can tell why the Combine are bad, thanks, you can try re-reading my post and discover that I (gasp) played the game and noticed their "subtle" clues (such as outright saying "the Combine are eating the oceans" and showing Combine soldiers beating up unarmed civilians). None of the characters have a motivation, just a goal.

To put it another way, Spider-Man has a goal: beat up bad guys. He also has a motivation: his prior failure to act resulted in the loss of his uncle, and he does not want to repeat that mistake. You can take that motivation and extract some psychology from it: he wants to protect people, he views his actions as a moral necessity because inaction results in loss, etc. If Spider-Man just beat up bad guys and had no motivation, I guess it'd make passable superhero comics, but his character wouldn't have the same depth.

 

[TailsRodrigez]

I like to ask my friends "if you were to think of one female character that's an accurate portrayal of a human being in a video game, who would it be?"

It's no surprise that Alyx Vance is a popular choice but what's odd is that she's no more realistic than over-sexualized game babes, only in a much more subtle way. Now, don't mistake me, super sexy girl in video games are fine, but I find it odd that Alyx Vance is spoken of as if she was living proof that the game industry CAN portray realistic characters when really, she's only living proof that Valve knows how to market the "girl next door" stereotype.

If you don't know what the "girl next door" stereotype is, it's pretty much Alyx Vance. A friendly female friend who's just there for comfort, not intimate relationships, and it's a common fetish amongst American boys (and nerds, as Valve cleverly figured out). Her entire role as a character boils down to pretty much giving the player the "girlfriend experience", which is the emotional equivalent of a porn game. She arouses feelings of care, comfort and compassion. Mimicking the non-sex related qualities often seen in long-term relationships. But that's it. That's her entire character. She's a one-dimensional stereotype, designed by developers to appeal to a certain aspect of the male teenage and adult mind: The desire of someone's comfort and compassion.

Frankly I see Valve as an incredibly ingenious company. They deviated from the typical kind of game babe and sold sexy in a very different (very non-sexual way) and it's worked. People actually talk about Alyx Vance as if she's a real character.

The funny thing is that other game characters are much more realistic portals of human beings. Like Yuna, for example. A shy, uncertain, character who matures over the course of her journey who eventually makes a moral stand. Her entire pilgrimage is a coming-of-age story and a pretty good one, for a video game. She's more similar to a human being than Alyx Vance could ever be. Unfortunately she still can be stereotypical as well, mostly in the form of Yamato Nadeshiko (look it up if you don't know it) but the big difference is that she at least has character development, and even shares a romantic relationship. To me, the famous Suteki da ne underwater kissing scene (fyi, they totally had sex, too) is one of the most artistically beautiful scenes in a video game and I'm very disappointing that such beauty is never really seen in games anymore where the focus is just on selling the sexy (Bayonnetta, for example, which doesn't even try to be subtle), without any romantic themes. FFX is a coming of age story that is akin to both teenage boys and girls and deals with some very interesting themes. Even FFX-2 has some character development where a more confident Yuna seeks out her love. Not as well done as FFX in my opinion but still decent.

Real character development in video games is far too uncommon, and frankly that's a shame. If there were more, maybe Alyx Vance wouldn't be considered realistic. Maybe female characters could show the same kind of development seen in good movies/books. Why do game developers limit themselves to sexy one-dimensional characters when they could craft far more realistic characters?

you do provide a good argument, but Yuna herself doesn't develop from when i played it.

 

[Booze Zombie]

It might be because she's not an annoying ***** like most FPS "gun babes", she's probably the most developed character an FPS addict has ever seen.

Also, given that you really don't "physically" interact with her that much and there are not any cutscenes, she's pretty developed, considering the game style.

 

[Souplex]

Yes, Alyx is a very flat boring character, but how is that unrealistic? Most people are fairly one dimensional, people are just convinced by mediums with complex narratives that they aren't.

 

[boholikeu]

For that matter, why do any of these people fight them? They just put in gas-masked stormtroopers and assume that it's obvious why there's animosity. Is, say, Barney, mad at the Combine because they stole his old job, or because they killed his friends, or because they enslaved the planet, or because they made him feel powerless?

Pretty sure that's the answer right there. Enslaving the planet is pretty good motivation for ANY human in HL2 to hate the combine =)

Except, as far as I recall, this is never stated or voiced in any fashion. Nor is the counter-argument voiced by the "bad guy" humans, such as Breen. Does he actually believe what he says on the radio? It certainly doesn't seem like that. It's, like I said, assumed that if you put in gas-masked storm troopers then obviously everyone in the world is going to hate them. That doesn't make a motivation though, because a) people have hated a lot of regimes and lived under them peacefully and b) the Combine rule has many problems, so you can't just say "evil Combine" is the reason they're disliked.

Is it because they're aliens? Is it because their rule crushes freedom? Is it because they are biologically altering humans in a way that goes against God? Is it because they are carefully and precisely ensuring that the human species ceases to exist in a few decades' time? Is it because they are killing the planet? Are they resisting simply because Combine rule inconveniences them personally? Are they resisting because humans are being killed?

There are millions of reasons to hate the Combine, but Valve doesn't even explain one. They just vomit out "the Combine won," and "the Combine rule" and put in some areas where you run away from Combine or watch them beat civilians and assume that this is all the explanation you need. You could take many scenes from the game where the Combine's "oppressive regime" is established and put them in the United States and they wouldn't be incredible or unbelievable. The ecological and species-level damage (e.g. loss of oceans, destruction of environment, sterilization of the people) is the most declared and egregious damage, are we meant to assume that the characters hate the Combine because they're eating the ocean?

Seriously? How can you play the game and say there's no evidence the Combine is evil? Aside from draining the Earth's ocean, you either witness or see direct evidence of:

1) Random apartment raids/executions
2) Dehumanizing experiments/brainwashing (to create the stalkers/combine guards)
3) Sterilization of the human race through some sort of "energy field"
4) Using headcrabs to kill off the resistance
5) Generally worse living conditions than before

You're right that there's no single "they enslaved the human race line", but given the above along with the overall tone of the game I think it's pretty much safe to assume so.

Edit:

No, the problem is that none of the characters are given motivations. I can tell why the Combine are bad, thanks, you can try re-reading my post and discover that I (gasp) played the game and noticed their "subtle" clues (such as outright saying "the Combine are eating the oceans" and showing Combine soldiers beating up unarmed civilians). None of the characters have a motivation, just a goal.

To put it another way, Spider-Man has a goal: beat up bad guys. He also has a motivation: his prior failure to act resulted in the loss of his uncle, and he does not want to repeat that mistake. You can take that motivation and extract some psychology from it: he wants to protect people, he views his actions as a moral necessity because inaction results in loss, etc. If Spider-Man just beat up bad guys and had no motivation, I guess it'd make passable superhero comics, but his character wouldn't have the same depth.

Ah, I see what you're saying now. Still, in a world where there's an totalitarian rule by violent invading aliens, I don't really think you need to invent a "the combine killed my brother" sob story for every character. It's pretty much implied already.

 

[JaymesFogarty]

You are absolutely right, but then, I never was too keen on her to begin with. My favorite female character would be Naomi Hunter, (or at least that's the name she assumes...) from the Metal Gear Solid series. She has so many sides to her, and I love her for that.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Like Yuna, for example

Uh... yeah.

I pretty much stopped reading there.