Alyx Vance, supposedly one of the most developed characters in video games, is bullshit

[Uberjoe19]

I never really played Half Life for the story.

 

[veloper]

You clearly have no literary knowledge whatsoever. Character development is NOT essential to a strong story of believable characters. A character does not need to change in order to be realistic, interesting, or enjoyable.

Ok, name a movie or book that has a strong story of believable characters in which the characters are EXACTLY the same from start to finish and every single event doesn't change them and no morals are learned.

Let me help: Ray from Last Orders, Meursault from l'Etranger. Those are main protagonists from literature.
There's also tons of lesser characters in literature that don't need to develop, but simply are what they are. A grown up character usually doesn't need to grow. Often all that is needed, is a good portrayal.

Also, your Yuna example of some naive girl growing up, is the lamest and easiest way to do character development. No points for that.

but unfortunately didn't read my post carefully enough. I SAID that Yuna also not immune to stereotypes

So now we learn this Yuna doesn't cut it either.

You said in your OP that there were more examples of better portrayal of women, in games.
Out with it then. Most here at the escapist don't even play JRPGs, so bring a better example.

Ok, this is why you don't fucking take people out of context, it changes all meaning of what they said. I said she isn't immune to stereotypes HOWEVER (see, this is why you have to keep reading) she is far more developed and has traits other than just a stereotypical japanese woman (whilst Alyx is ONLY a stereotypical "girl next door" with no other traits) and she actually changes and becomes someone who has qualities and has matured (whilst Alyx remains the same from start to finish).

Alyx functions well as the tom boy. Decent dialogue and non-craptastic VO is the very first thing that story telling in videogames needs right now. This is where Alyx scores a few points.

I've also seen ff cutscenes with Yuna on youtube. Ugh. Maybe the japanese version doesn't suck, but we'll never know. I do know I prefer a one dimensional character to this shit.

Frankly I'm not here to accommodate the escapist. If you don't play JRPG, that's your choice to isolate an entire series of games, not mine.

If you cannot talk to your audience, don't expect alot of support. You don't see many weeaboos here.
So we'll have to conclude you have no other examples?

 

[Levitas1234]

I never really played Half Life for the story.

Then what the hell were you playing it for?

 

[Uberjoe19]

I never really played Half Life for the story.

Then what the hell were you playing it for?

The excellent action, scripted events, and the overall challenge. The great controls help as well.

 

[El_Moss]

I like to ask my friends "if you were to think of one female character that's an accurate portrayal of a human being in a video game, who would it be?"

I imagine you're very fun at parties.

 

[GraveyardTricks]

The amount of times i've crowbar-ed Alyx in the face, and she didn't even flinch!

Realistic? I think not

 

[Soxafloppin]

Ive honestly never heard of him.

 

[Xvito]

She's a bad character. I don't think she's anywhere near being a good character.

Also, Kairi... Now that's a good female character... She's the damsel in distress... All the way up 'till she saves your ass, that is. That was a pretty cool moment.

 

[President Moocow]

Now, despite the fact that I like trying to fit as much swearing into my responses as I can without directing them at the person, I do actually like all the responses and the discussions. I'm saying this because I don't have the fucking time to waste making huge-ass posts so much, so I'm focusing on a few. If I didn't respond, I either missed it unintentionally, liked it (and agree!), or found it too annoying to discuss with any decent value.

You clearly have no literary knowledge whatsoever. Character development is NOT essential to a strong story of believable characters. A character does not need to change in order to be realistic, interesting, or enjoyable.

Ok, name a movie or book that has a strong story of believable characters in which the characters are EXACTLY the same from start to finish and every single event doesn't change them and no morals are learned.

Let me help: Ray from Last Orders, Meursault from l'Etranger. Those are main protagonists from literature.
There's also tons of lesser characters in literature that don't need to develop, but simply are what they are. A grown up character usually doesn't need to grow. Often all that is needed, is a good portrayal.

Also, your Yuna example of some naive girl growing up, is the lamest and easiest way to do character development. No points for that.

but unfortunately didn't read my post carefully enough. I SAID that Yuna also not immune to stereotypes

So now we learn this Yuna doesn't cut it either.

You said in your OP that there were more examples of better portrayal of women, in games.
Out with it then. Most here at the escapist don't even play JRPGs, so bring a better example.

Ok, this is why you don't fucking take people out of context, it changes all meaning of what they said. I said she isn't immune to stereotypes HOWEVER (see, this is why you have to keep reading) she is far more developed and has traits other than just a stereotypical japanese woman (whilst Alyx is ONLY a stereotypical "girl next door" with no other traits) and she actually changes and becomes someone who has qualities and has matured (whilst Alyx remains the same from start to finish).

Alyx functions well as the tom boy. Decent dialogue and non-craptastic VO is the very first thing that story telling in videogames needs right now. This is where Alyx scores a few points.

I've also seen ff cutscenes with Yuna on youtube. Ugh. Maybe the japanese version doesn't suck, but we'll never know. I do know I prefer a one dimensional character to this shit.

Frankly I'm not here to accommodate the escapist. If you don't play JRPG, that's your choice to isolate an entire series of games, not mine.

If you cannot talk to your audience, don't expect alot of support. You don't see many weeaboos here.
So we'll have to conclude you have no other examples?

The question then is, do I give a shit about weather a bunch of nerds support my view or not? I've got much more interesting priorities, like learning some interesting points as a result of these debates.

One of these is one that you mentioned, actually a valid reason why Alyx has the upper hand on Yuna: Alyx has much better technical qualities, graphical detail, animation and voice acting. You are right, the VA for Yuna isn't nearly as good (the scene you're talking about is probably the infamous laughing scene, known for it's absurdity) as the one for Alyx or even compared to those of characters in the game like Tidus and Rikku, voiced by James Arnold Taylor (famous for voicing Ratchet) and Tara Strong (famous for a fuck ton of female video game characters on a wide range, although her popularity is in good part a result of Rikku's popularity).

Graphical quality, vocals, character modeling and character animations place Alyx miles ahead of Yuna but quite frankly it's not a very fair comparison considering that the games were made FOUR years apart. We're talking about video games here and from 2000 to 2004 (and beyond, as 2004 is HL2, whilst ep1 and 2 are the ones that REALLY show Alyx a lot). The standards of graphics, animation just arn't the same. The voice acting is a more valid argument and Alyx wins there. No argument. Frankly I ignored a lot of these elements because I focused on the literary interpretation of the characters. You're right, creating believable characters is about a technical standpoint as well, I should have made some sort of mention, even though I was really hoping to focus on evaluating video games as a literary standpoint a far too often overlooked angle in my opinion.

Since apparently nerds have some aversion to ALL games that fall under a fucking genre that oh so happens to be a genre Yahtzee hates, I'll provide a nerd-friendly example of good character, with a twist even. These characters show development as YOU interact with them and even touch upon themes of intimacy and romance that I don't see enough of like I previously complained about. Frankly I'm impressed by how much these characters display a range of opinions depending on how interactions go. The one downside is that the immersion is a bit shattered when you run out of conversation with these party companions. I'm talking, of course, of every companion in Dragon Age (This is as nerdy as I can possibly get, whilst still being western). And since this is about main female characters who have romantic plots, let's go with Morrigan and Leliana (although ALL characters are well-crafted), one for those who like a cold-hearted morally insensitive witch and the other sweet girly french self-righteous bard. I CAN list examples, I just don't like people saying "I don't like that genre so give me a different one" or open up a can of worms to debate (it's bad enough with Yuna, something that doesn't surprise me).

 

[President Moocow]

Accidentally double posted. It's hard to keep track with big-ass fucking walls of text.

I like to ask my friends "if you were to think of one female character that's an accurate portrayal of a human being in a video game, who would it be?"

It's no surprise that Alyx Vance is a popular choice but what's odd is that she's no more realistic than over-sexualized game babes, only in a much more subtle way. Now, don't mistake me, super sexy girl in video games are fine, but I find it odd that Alyx Vance is spoken of as if she was living proof that the game industry CAN portray realistic characters when really, she's only living proof that Valve knows how to market the "girl next door" stereotype.

If you don't know what the "girl next door" stereotype is, it's pretty much Alyx Vance. A friendly female friend who's just there for comfort, not intimate relationships, and it's a common fetish amongst American boys (and nerds, as Valve cleverly figured out). Her entire role as a character boils down to pretty much giving the player the "girlfriend experience", which is the emotional equivalent of a porn game. She arouses feelings of care, comfort and compassion. Mimicking the non-sex related qualities often seen in long-term relationships. But that's it. That's her entire character. She's a one-dimensional stereotype, designed by developers to appeal to a certain aspect of the male teenage and adult mind: The desire of someone's comfort and compassion.

Frankly I see Valve as an incredibly ingenious company. They deviated from the typical kind of game babe and sold sexy in a very different (very non-sexual way) and it's worked. People actually talk about Alyx Vance as if she's a real character.

The funny thing is that other game characters are much more realistic portals of human beings. Like Yuna, for example. A shy, uncertain, character who matures over the course of her journey who eventually makes a moral stand. Her entire pilgrimage is a coming-of-age story and a pretty good one, for a video game. She's more similar to a human being than Alyx Vance could ever be. Unfortunately she still can be stereotypical as well, mostly in the form of Yamato Nadeshiko (look it up if you don't know it) but the big difference is that she at least has character development, and even shares a romantic relationship. To me, the famous Suteki da ne underwater kissing scene (fyi, they totally had sex, too) is one of the most artistically beautiful scenes in a video game and I'm very disappointing that such beauty is never really seen in games anymore where the focus is just on selling the sexy (Bayonnetta, for example, which doesn't even try to be subtle), without any romantic themes. FFX is a coming of age story that is akin to both teenage boys and girls and deals with some very interesting themes. Even FFX-2 has some character development where a more confident Yuna seeks out her love. Not as well done as FFX in my opinion but still decent.

Real character development in video games is far too uncommon, and frankly that's a shame. If there were more, maybe Alyx Vance wouldn't be considered realistic. Maybe female characters could show the same kind of development seen in good movies/books. Why do game developers limit themselves to sexy one-dimensional characters when they could craft far more realistic characters?

I must beg to differ.
Why?
Well, have you ever hung out in labs populated largely by attractive, intelligent young women before?
I think they got it surprisingly well.

Your entire argument hinges on the definition of the "girl next door" which is pretty silly, because the entire meaning of that phrase is an honest, more wholesome female who is in close proximity to the assumedly male protagonist.
The girl-next-door thing happens in real life. Hell, if I was around more males, I could fit into the role.
And even in the sense of character development, that's just not how Half-Life 2 rolls. Its all about inserting you into a slice of the world, post-invasion. To try and make it more movie- or book-like would be to mess up the game's pacing and mood.
Well, OK, I guess she isn't that developed, but by no means does that make her steriotypical.

I mean, just give me an example in any scene of the game, and tell me what they could have done with her reaction to make her more realistic.

No, you're quite wrong. The "girl next door" is BASED on a very common phenomenon (in the USA). Sure, there are people who are like that, and at first, you'd think they are exactly like the "girl next door" but it's just grazing the surface. People are compared to icebergs in the sense that in both cases, about 10% of them is shown on the surface, whilst 90% is depth. NOBODY in real life is truly a "girl next door" (and you're no exception, because people aren't based on stereotypes; stereotypes are based off of people). They may seem like they have a lot of traits in common with the stereotype but that's the surface, that's not who they truly are. Alyx doesn't have that depth, she just looks and acts like a girl next door.

Now, why wouldn't Valve enrich their game by giving the characters more depth. To me, Valve's games are perfect settings with clear motives and so many good design techniques that makes the games fluid, fun and fucking amazing. If only Valve could make everything they are so good at doing AND create characters more interesting and stories have lessons, THEN I would probably be convinced that Valve might as well call their game Citizen Kane. Letting them off the hook because of their achievements isn't a good enough challenge, I think they can do better.

"Mary Sue"

Would you mind defining this in your own words? I've seen far too many instances of people misusing the phrase.

Sure, it's commonly said nobody can agree on a term. To me a "Mary Sue" is an attempt to create a character that, in the author's mind, is perfect in every way and has all the good (this is subjective to the author) qualities and no flaws (or just a few "informed flaws", to try and hide this). In the setting, all characters have nothing but praise for him/her or feel compelled to go with his/her way. As a result a Mary Sue character just doesn't really develop at all. It stays the same (cause it's supposedly perfect) and comes across as extremely contrived, unrealistic, irritating and not believable. Nobody is perfect to the point where any change would be a bad thing (which is why I don't agree with people saying that Alyx's character is fine the way it is), and a Mary Sue is a character who is already "perfect". A truly good character is a dynamic character, not an attempt at a perfect one.

Now, what commonly happens is that an author will make a character that he/she finds to have desirable qualities and people will automatically say "OMG, it's an author's perfect character therefore it's a Mary Sue". It's fine (and expected) for a character to be one the author likes, but if it's a flawless character it could be a Mary Sue. It's tough because fiction is not very clear-cut. It's subject to different interpretation. For example I see Alyx as a near miss from a Mary Sue since she also has no flaws, seemingly perfect and doesn't change but she's very toned down (Mary Sue characters are exaggerated as hell) and quite honestly seems to be believable at first. I didn't want to throw the term out so rampantly since she doesn't quite fit it, and "girl next door" described her better.

Oh and @boholiku

Good reply. I like what you said and you're right that making a character model, animate it, make her live and breath is an achievement to behold.

But what you said about FFX. I'm glad you disclaimed that you only played a little bit because you missed so much about her character. First of all, no. The events in the game DON'T reflect on the gameplay. She doesn't get +3 confidence for getting a new aeon. Her relationship with Tidus is important to the story but has no effect on the gameplay (except when she is missing and has to be saved). They aren't intertwined, but that doesn't mean the story wasn't there! In fact intertwining gameplay with the story would have been tedious, considering how developed the story is (and there's no choice system, it's linear).

Erm, maybe you're missing my point. I realize that in non-interactive sequences Yuna is very well developed, but my point is that for her to be a really good "video game character" they should have reflected that in gameplay as well. It's also totally possible to do this without turning the game into an open-world choice system like Fallout (heck, HL2 is completely linear, and it still manages to relate nearly all of it's story to gameplay). The developers could have easily mirrored the stages of Yuna's maturation through each of the aeons she gets. Better yet, make her combat style change as well. The same could be done for the relationship.

Anyway, my point is that while Yuna might be a deeper character, Alyx's character did more to advance the medium.

Ok, so you mean to be a true video game character they should mix the story more with the gameplay - something JRPGs are accused of not doing enough. Fair enough, now you know that she gains an Aeon to add to her arsenal as she goes through the game, is this what you want? I'm not quite sure I can think of too many examples. You mention HL2 does this, how so? I don't remember Alyx changing gameplay wise very much. I did see a lot of gameplay changes and as fun as creative as they were, I didn't see any of them contengint on the plot. Am I missing something?

As for combat styles. Well everyone's combat style mimicks the kind of person they are. Auron, strong and reliable, has attacks around armor-breaking. Rikku, cheery and crafty, has potion making and stealing (and understanding of 'machinas'). Tidus, youthful and impulsive, has speedy attacks and combat enhancers. And Yuna, whilst weak on her own, calls upon tremendous powers to help per. Each aeon makes her significantly stronger.

 

[Erana]

Spoiler: snip

Accidentally double posted. It's hard to keep track with big-ass fucking walls of text.

I like to ask my friends "if you were to think of one female character that's an accurate portrayal of a human being in a video game, who would it be?"

It's no surprise that Alyx Vance is a popular choice but what's odd is that she's no more realistic than over-sexualized game babes, only in a much more subtle way. Now, don't mistake me, super sexy girl in video games are fine, but I find it odd that Alyx Vance is spoken of as if she was living proof that the game industry CAN portray realistic characters when really, she's only living proof that Valve knows how to market the "girl next door" stereotype.

If you don't know what the "girl next door" stereotype is, it's pretty much Alyx Vance. A friendly female friend who's just there for comfort, not intimate relationships, and it's a common fetish amongst American boys (and nerds, as Valve cleverly figured out). Her entire role as a character boils down to pretty much giving the player the "girlfriend experience", which is the emotional equivalent of a porn game. She arouses feelings of care, comfort and compassion. Mimicking the non-sex related qualities often seen in long-term relationships. But that's it. That's her entire character. She's a one-dimensional stereotype, designed by developers to appeal to a certain aspect of the male teenage and adult mind: The desire of someone's comfort and compassion.

Frankly I see Valve as an incredibly ingenious company. They deviated from the typical kind of game babe and sold sexy in a very different (very non-sexual way) and it's worked. People actually talk about Alyx Vance as if she's a real character.

The funny thing is that other game characters are much more realistic portals of human beings. Like Yuna, for example. A shy, uncertain, character who matures over the course of her journey who eventually makes a moral stand. Her entire pilgrimage is a coming-of-age story and a pretty good one, for a video game. She's more similar to a human being than Alyx Vance could ever be. Unfortunately she still can be stereotypical as well, mostly in the form of Yamato Nadeshiko (look it up if you don't know it) but the big difference is that she at least has character development, and even shares a romantic relationship. To me, the famous Suteki da ne underwater kissing scene (fyi, they totally had sex, too) is one of the most artistically beautiful scenes in a video game and I'm very disappointing that such beauty is never really seen in games anymore where the focus is just on selling the sexy (Bayonnetta, for example, which doesn't even try to be subtle), without any romantic themes. FFX is a coming of age story that is akin to both teenage boys and girls and deals with some very interesting themes. Even FFX-2 has some character development where a more confident Yuna seeks out her love. Not as well done as FFX in my opinion but still decent.

Real character development in video games is far too uncommon, and frankly that's a shame. If there were more, maybe Alyx Vance wouldn't be considered realistic. Maybe female characters could show the same kind of development seen in good movies/books. Why do game developers limit themselves to sexy one-dimensional characters when they could craft far more realistic characters?

I must beg to differ.
Why?
Well, have you ever hung out in labs populated largely by attractive, intelligent young women before?
I think they got it surprisingly well.

Your entire argument hinges on the definition of the "girl next door" which is pretty silly, because the entire meaning of that phrase is an honest, more wholesome female who is in close proximity to the assumedly male protagonist.
The girl-next-door thing happens in real life. Hell, if I was around more males, I could fit into the role.
And even in the sense of character development, that's just not how Half-Life 2 rolls. Its all about inserting you into a slice of the world, post-invasion. To try and make it more movie- or book-like would be to mess up the game's pacing and mood.
Well, OK, I guess she isn't that developed, but by no means does that make her steriotypical.

I mean, just give me an example in any scene of the game, and tell me what they could have done with her reaction to make her more realistic.

No, you're quite wrong. The "girl next door" is BASED on a very common phenomenon (in the USA). Sure, there are people who are like that, and at first, you'd think they are exactly like the "girl next door" but it's just grazing the surface. People are compared to icebergs in the sense that in both cases, about 10% of them is shown on the surface, whilst 90% is depth. NOBODY in real life is truly a "girl next door" (and you're no exception, because people aren't based on stereotypes; stereotypes are based off of people). They may seem like they have a lot of traits in common with the stereotype but that's the surface, that's not who they truly are. Alyx doesn't have that depth, she just looks and acts like a girl next door.

Now, why wouldn't Valve enrich their game by giving the characters more depth. To me, Valve's games are perfect settings with clear motives and so many good design techniques that makes the games fluid, fun and fucking amazing. If only Valve could make everything they are so good at doing AND create characters more interesting and stories have lessons, THEN I would probably be convinced that Valve might as well call their game Citizen Kane. Letting them off the hook because of their achievements isn't a good enough challenge, I think they can do better.

"Mary Sue"

Would you mind defining this in your own words? I've seen far too many instances of people misusing the phrase.

Sure, it's commonly said nobody can agree on a term. To me a "Mary Sue" is an attempt to create a character that, in the author's mind, is perfect in every way and has all the good (this is subjective to the author) qualities and no flaws (or just a few "informed flaws", to try and hide this). In the setting, all characters have nothing but praise for him/her or feel compelled to go with his/her way. As a result a Mary Sue character just doesn't really develop at all. It stays the same (cause it's supposedly perfect) and comes across as extremely contrived, unrealistic, irritating and not believable. Nobody is perfect to the point where any change would be a bad thing (which is why I don't agree with people saying that Alyx's character is fine the way it is), and a Mary Sue is a character who is already "perfect". A truly good character is a dynamic character, not an attempt at a perfect one.

Now, what commonly happens is that an author will make a character that he/she finds to have desirable qualities and people will automatically say "OMG, it's an author's perfect character therefore it's a Mary Sue". It's fine (and expected) for a character to be one the author likes, but if it's a flawless character it could be a Mary Sue. It's tough because fiction is not very clear-cut. It's subject to different interpretation. For example I see Alyx as a near miss from a Mary Sue since she also has no flaws, seemingly perfect and doesn't change but she's very toned down (Mary Sue characters are exaggerated as hell) and quite honestly seems to be believable at first. I didn't want to throw the term out so rampantly since she doesn't quite fit it, and "girl next door" described her better.

Oh and @boholiku

Good reply. I like what you said and you're right that making a character model, animate it, make her live and breath is an achievement to behold.

But what you said about FFX. I'm glad you disclaimed that you only played a little bit because you missed so much about her character. First of all, no. The events in the game DON'T reflect on the gameplay. She doesn't get +3 confidence for getting a new aeon. Her relationship with Tidus is important to the story but has no effect on the gameplay (except when she is missing and has to be saved). They aren't intertwined, but that doesn't mean the story wasn't there! In fact intertwining gameplay with the story would have been tedious, considering how developed the story is (and there's no choice system, it's linear).

Erm, maybe you're missing my point. I realize that in non-interactive sequences Yuna is very well developed, but my point is that for her to be a really good "video game character" they should have reflected that in gameplay as well. It's also totally possible to do this without turning the game into an open-world choice system like Fallout (heck, HL2 is completely linear, and it still manages to relate nearly all of it's story to gameplay). The developers could have easily mirrored the stages of Yuna's maturation through each of the aeons she gets. Better yet, make her combat style change as well. The same could be done for the relationship.

Anyway, my point is that while Yuna might be a deeper character, Alyx's character did more to advance the medium.

Ok, so you mean to be a true video game character they should mix the story more with the gameplay - something JRPGs are accused of not doing enough. Fair enough, now you know that she gains an Aeon to add to her arsenal as she goes through the game, is this what you want? I'm not quite sure I can think of too many examples. You mention HL2 does this, how so? I don't remember Alyx changing gameplay wise very much. I did see a lot of gameplay changes and as fun as creative as they were, I didn't see any of them contengint on the plot. Am I missing something?

As for combat styles. Well everyone's combat style mimicks the kind of person they are. Auron, strong and reliable, has attacks around armor-breaking. Rikku, cheery and crafty, has potion making and stealing (and understanding of 'machinas'). Tidus, youthful and impulsive, has speedy attacks and combat enhancers. And Yuna, whilst weak on her own, calls upon tremendous powers to help per. Each aeon makes her significantly stronger.

Ahh, I misunderstood the original intention of your OP. I understand where you're coming from now.

 

[Noone From Nowhere]

Alyx Vance's allure harkens back to an age before the 20th century when women weren't even allowed to either overtly sexual or show 'too much interest in sex'(or skin).

She's rather like any other female supporting character outside of comic books or videogames which take their cues from classical mythology when it comes to character design and characterization(except that it also applies to female characters, too. Its as if Athena or even Aphrodite got to strut their stuff like Heracles!). She doesn't draw too much attention to herself and stands behind The Man without distracting him from his duties.

She also leaves a lot to the imagination. What fun is it to imagine what's underneath an immodest person's clothes? That's why topless magazines featuring only male models could never take off(unless aimed at girls who have never seen a shirtless man up close. Even that is a stretch. Does such a person even exist?).

That sounds like the ultimate Nerd fantasy to me. Personally, I like heroines with just as much mojo and moxie(insert additional outdated slang terms here) as the heroes!

 

[boholikeu]

No, you're quite wrong. The "girl next door" is BASED on a very common phenomenon (in the USA). Sure, there are people who are like that, and at first, you'd think they are exactly like the "girl next door" but it's just grazing the surface. People are compared to icebergs in the sense that in both cases, about 10% of them is shown on the surface, whilst 90% is depth. NOBODY in real life is truly a "girl next door" (and you're no exception, because people aren't based on stereotypes; stereotypes are based off of people). They may seem like they have a lot of traits in common with the stereotype but that's the surface, that's not who they truly are. Alyx doesn't have that depth, she just looks and acts like a girl next door.

Ironically, I think your iceberg comment actually supports the argument that Alyx is fairly realistic. Remember, the entire HL series is told from a first-person perspective, so it makes sense that you wouldn't see the other 90% of the iceberg within 48 hours of meeting someone for the first time. I much prefer this to the "deep characters" in many western RPGs that will tell you every damn dark secret they have if you tinker with the conversation tree for more than 2 minutes.

Ok, so you mean to be a true video game character they should mix the story more with the gameplay - something JRPGs are accused of not doing enough. Fair enough, now you know that she gains an Aeon to add to her arsenal as she goes through the game, is this what you want? I'm not quite sure I can think of too many examples. You mention HL2 does this, how so? I don't remember Alyx changing gameplay wise very much. I did see a lot of gameplay changes and as fun as creative as they were, I didn't see any of them contengint on the plot. Am I missing something?

I realize she adds more Aeons, but IMO they missed a perfect opportunity to have each Aeon reflect a stage of her development. Again, I haven't played much of the game, so feel free to correct me if I'm completely wrong here, but none of the Aeons really say anything about Yuna's character at that point in the game.

As for Alyx, you're right that she didn't change gameplay-wise very much, but she didn't change character-wise either. My point was that despite this lack of depth, pretty much everything you know about her character in the storyline is reflected mechanically as well. In the story she totally trusts you and will never get in your way, and in the game this is reflected in her pathfinding AI. In the story she is a good fighter and does not need someone to protect her (somewhat contrary to the "girl next door" stereotype, I might add), and this is true in game as well. You never have to worry about her health (unlike when you lead other members of the resistance), and Valve went through a lot of trouble to make sure that she doesn't feel like an NPC in an "escort mission". They even added in a few randomly executed "badass moves" that she will perform from time to time in combat.

Plus she's the first autonomous AI buddy character that was actually fun to have around both mechanically and personality-wise. That's a pretty big accomplishment IMO.

As for combat styles. Well everyone's combat style mimicks the kind of person they are. Auron, strong and reliable, has attacks around armor-breaking. Rikku, cheery and crafty, has potion making and stealing (and understanding of 'machinas'). Tidus, youthful and impulsive, has speedy attacks and combat enhancers. And Yuna, whilst weak on her own, calls upon tremendous powers to help per. Each aeon makes her significantly stronger.

True, but this has been around for over 20 years, and combat-wise their characterizations are even more stereotypical than Alyx's. Now, if their character development was reflected in combat I'd be championing FFX along with you, but as it is Alyx's character definitely had a bigger influence on the medium.

 

[Jubbsy]

Doomsday Arcade didn't seem to like her.

 

[Noone From Nowhere]

I'm thinking that people who seem impressed with Alyx Vance's vanilla personality and attire could benefit from playing more than First person action-adventure games.
If they played more 'WRPGs'(especially those by BioWare) or even JRPGs made by Konami, Atlus,Vanilla Ware or Nippon Ichi,or anything Tim Schafer worked on, Alyx's personality and proportions wouldn't be remotely note-worthy.
That said, some of the best characters in some of those JRPGs have Jayne Mansfield-esque proportions, though, common though they aren't.

A character's bra size or how much or little skin she shows shouldn't be the measure of a character, anyway.

 

[boholikeu]

I'm thinking that people who seem impressed with Alyx Vance's vanilla personality and attire could benefit from playing more than First person action-adventure games.
If they played more 'WRPGs'(especially those by BioWare) or even JRPGs made by Konami, Atlus,Vanilla Ware or Nippon Ichi,or anything Tim Schafer worked on, Alyx's personality and proportions wouldn't be remotely note-worthy.
That said, some of the best characters in some of those JRPGs have Jayne Mansfield-esque proportions, though, common though they aren't.

A character's bra size or how much or little skin she shows shouldn't be the measure of a character, anyway.

I've played nearly all of the above, and I'm still impressed with her character (albeit for different reasons than you're probably expecting).

 

[Korolev]

Alex Vance is a step in the right direction, but hardly a realistic portrayal. Very few resistance fighters would be so cheerful and happy and good looking. She's a very toned down male fantasy figure - she certainly isn't as bad as those "dead or alive" fighters, but a toned down stereotypical female video game character depiction is still a stereotypical female video game character depiction.

Why do all the men and all the women have to look good? People in real life don't usually. Alex Vance shouldn't not have been attractive. Not bad looking, but ordinary looking. And she shouldn't run around showing off her mid-riff. Get some bulky armor on her - are you REALLY going to run around post-invasion Earth, fighting giant striders, while wearing..... tight jeans?! No. No that is not on.

Alex Vance is a good character. But hardly, HARDLY realistic. Then again, neither is Gordon Freeman, so you know. Take from that what you will.

Yuna was a reasonable character in FFX - although a little bit too Holy-Maiden-esque for my liking. But she was alright. Then they had to go and RUIN the character in X-2.

 

[jh322]

Hold on, hold on.

She fulfills her half of an emotional relationship? By mimicking real-world behaviour? and that makes her NOT a deep character?

Besides we all know who the best female character is:

Soap McTavish: Hawt + Badass = win