Alyx Vance, supposedly one of the most developed characters in video games, is bullshit

[President Moocow]

Ironically, I think your iceberg comment actually supports the argument that Alyx is fairly realistic. Remember, the entire HL series is told from a first-person perspective, so it makes sense that you wouldn't see the other 90% of the iceberg within 48 hours of meeting someone for the first time. I much prefer this to the "deep characters" in many western RPGs that will tell you every damn dark secret they have if you tinker with the conversation tree for more than 2 minutes.

Um, no? Frankly I can't even see what the hell you're talking about. First person perspective doesn't make her hide her personality, she flat out shows you exactly the kind of person she is right away. She has no depth and she has nothing "hidden" it's all there in plain view. Perhaps this is a nerd's wet dream. A person who doesn't hide anything and makes her intentions clear as day.

Now the "dark secret" thing is valid for quickly done characters (like those created when you interact with them) and this is why I'm sticking with Yuna (who has none of that, but instead has good depth) as my example. I'm not out to defend every fucking character in the game industry, just pointing out an overrated boring-ass one and giving a comparable standard.

I realize she adds more Aeons, but IMO they missed a perfect opportunity to have each Aeon reflect a stage of her development. Again, I haven't played much of the game, so feel free to correct me if I'm completely wrong here, but none of the Aeons really say anything about Yuna's character at that point in the game.

Why is this contrived reflection of growth necessary? It's much better to just tell a story and let the character speak for herself, not trying to translate that into gameplay.

As for Alyx, you're right that she didn't change gameplay-wise very much, but she didn't change character-wise either.

The fact that she didn't change character-wise is MY ENTIRE POINT. Just wanted to point that out.

My point was that despite this lack of depth, pretty much everything you know about her character in the storyline is reflected mechanically as well. In the story she totally trusts you and will never get in your way, and in the game this is reflected in her pathfinding AI.

Just like Yuna's kind and feminine personality translates to a weak physical attack
Like Auron's strong and reliable nature is reflected in his armor-piercing tank attacks

It's a cliche to design characters in game and give them a suitable personality and just as you have pointed out, she is no different: She is given the role of a follower to Gordon and given a "suitable" personality. This is EXTREMELY common in every game character ever. Nothing unique about Alyx. But wait:

In the story she is a good fighter and does not need someone to protect her (somewhat contrary to the "girl next door" stereotype, I might add), and this is true in game as well. You never have to worry about her health (unlike when you lead other members of the resistance), and Valve went through a lot of trouble to make sure that she doesn't feel like an NPC in an "escort mission". They even added in a few randomly executed "badass moves" that she will perform from time to time in combat.

Aha, now a compelling argument! Sure, the "action girl" (more "action girlfriend") trope does make her less of a submissive secondary damsel character but it doesn't disprove the "girl next door", that stereotype doesn't dictate prowess in fighting. Nobody said that the "girl next door" had to be a submissive damsel OR an action girl.

But why go so far to disprove? First of all, you're wrong, she CAN die and it will end the mission so you DO have to protect her (although not as annoying they take turns, very nice gameplay wise but character-wise, not so favorable) and not to mention this whole "I'm a girl and a badass" comes to a huge halt when she's stabbed by a hunter. Yep, she's no more then a token girl who must be saved at that point.

Plus she's the first autonomous AI buddy character that was actually fun to have around both mechanically and personality-wise. That's a pretty big accomplishment IMO.

Sure, but I'm not talking about mechanically. I'm calling her personality boring and stereotypical. Hey, it's ok to love a stereotype but don't make it look like she has any sort of personality worthy of praise.

As for combat styles. Well everyone's combat style mimicks the kind of person they are. Auron, strong and reliable, has attacks around armor-breaking. Rikku, cheery and crafty, has potion making and stealing (and understanding of 'machinas'). Tidus, youthful and impulsive, has speedy attacks and combat enhancers. And Yuna, whilst weak on her own, calls upon tremendous powers to help per. Each aeon makes her significantly stronger.

True, but this has been around for over 20 years, and combat-wise their characterizations are even more stereotypical than Alyx's. Now, if their character development was reflected in combat I'd be championing FFX along with you, but as it is Alyx's character definitely had a bigger influence on the medium.[/quote]

Like I said, she does the SAME thing that you've mentioned is around for 20 years. Her only influence is that nerds dig the "girl next door" and so have fallen for her.

oh and @Erana: Thankyou! Glad there are people who understand the intention.

 

[RJ Dalton]

Alyx isn't really a developed character. She doesn't have a background and she doesn't have a story arc that includes character growth. What Alyx is in the long run is a very well CHARACTERIZED NPC. In that, she is an improvement over a lot of female NPCs in games and, honestly, her relationship with Gordon is a lot more realistic than a lot of video games might have portrayed it.

You lost me on that FFX argument, though. The characters of FFX were insipid. I have honestly never played a game that made me want to not play it purely because of the characters like that one did.

 

[Ithae]

Her entire role as a character boils down to pretty much giving the player the "girlfriend experience"

orly? I didn't feel that way. I felt she was a kick ass character, not a girl friend type person. Gordon Freeman doesn't need her, when he is done, he could get anyone he wanted.

 

[G-Force]

Please answer this question for us. How does Gordon Freeman get championed as a good male character even though he is a blank slate. There are other blank slate characters in the past such as the Doom Trooper and old RPG characters yet people clamor behind them. Given how you are so ready to deconstruct Alex, how come Gordon has yet to receive such treatment.

 

[Nomanslander]

LoL, well aren't you guys a bunch of haters...

 

[boholikeu]

Thanks for the in-depth reply Moocow. Gonna respond to your points a bit out of order though. Sorry in advance for the giant wall of text.

The fact that she didn't change character-wise is MY ENTIRE POINT. Just wanted to point that out.

I realize this, and I agree with you on that, so let me rephrase it a bit:

I agree with your OP that narrative-wise Alyx is a completely flat character.

Despite this though, I would argue that her gameplay characterization is somewhat deep. What I mean by this is that her personality and mechanics are both tailored to the game's needs. Just as a deep character in a novel shows the author's skill at storytelling, a mechanically sound character like Alyx shows a developer's skill at game design.

Why is this contrived reflection of growth necessary? It's much better to just tell a story and let the character speak for herself, not trying to translate that into gameplay.

Well look at it this way, choosing to not reflect her growth in the gameplay is like a movie director deciding not to use cinematography or acting. With Yuna (and any other character whose story is mainly told through non-interactive techniques) I feel like it's the same as watching an actor who is just blandly reading their lines off a script. The writing might be good and all, but I could've gotten the same effect from just reading it myself. In other words, why bother make a video game if you're going to tell your story solely through movies (or text or whatever)? Use the advantages of the medium you're working in!

Just like Yuna's kind and feminine personality translates to a weak physical attack
Like Auron's strong and reliable nature is reflected in his armor-piercing tank attacks

It's a cliche to design characters in game and give them a suitable personality and just as you have pointed out, she is no different: She is given the role of a follower to Gordon and given a "suitable" personality. This is EXTREMELY common in every game character ever. Nothing unique about Alyx.

Mind naming some other totally autonomous "buddy characters" that work as well as Alyx? I'm willing to accept I'm wrong here, but you'll have to provide some examples. Personally I can't think of any that aren't A) unlikable because they are a liability (IE you either have to protect them all the time, or they get in the way) or B) unlikable because of their personality (IE the developer tried to give them depth, but it just backfired). True, Alyx isn't a deep character, but as I argued before it's because the her gameplay role requires it. Heck, you even agreed with me on this a few posts back and said that the recent episodes would be boring without her.

Yuna's character, on the other hand, plays no differently from the thousands of "weak female healers" in countless other RPGs. She might be a little more developed in the cut-scenes, but, well, that only means Square is becoming better at directing, not game design.

Aha, now a compelling argument! Sure, the "action girl" (more "action girlfriend") trope does make her less of a submissive secondary damsel character but it doesn't disprove the "girl next door", that stereotype doesn't dictate prowess in fighting. Nobody said that the "girl next door" had to be a submissive damsel OR an action girl.

I'm still having trouble accepting your assertion that she's a "girl next door" stereotype. I seriously don't see any difference between her character and Barney's (aside from the obvious fact that she's a woman). Unless your trying to say that gender is the only determining factor between "buddy" and "girlfriend material" you'll have to give more specific examples than "she's a girl, and she's friendly".

But why go so far to disprove? First of all, you're wrong, she CAN die and it will end the mission so you DO have to protect her (although not as annoying they take turns, very nice gameplay wise but character-wise, not so favorable) and not to mention this whole "I'm a girl and a badass" comes to a huge halt when she's stabbed by a hunter. Yep, she's no more then a token girl who must be saved at that point.

If I remember correctly she has a buttload of health and regenerates over time, so while it's true that she can die it's far more likely that the player would die before her (unless you are actively trying to kill her of course). Basically when I said "you don't have to protect her" I meant that EP1 and 2 aren't just 5 hour long escort missions. There may be some instances where you have to keep her from being overwhelmed, but she has a pretty good AI and will often help the player out, too. Gordon and Alyx aren't just a team in the storyline. They play like one as well.

Also, I like how the moment she gets stabbed you totally dismiss roughly 6 hours worth of gameplay over 2 games establishing her as a badass. =) Calling her character a "token female" at this point is a bit reductionist, don't you think?

Sure, but I'm not talking about mechanically. I'm calling her personality boring and stereotypical. Hey, it's ok to love a stereotype but don't make it look like she has any sort of personality worthy of praise

Her personality is not worthy of praise, her design is. That's my entire point.

Um, no? Frankly I can't even see what the hell you're talking about. First person perspective doesn't make her hide her personality, she flat out shows you exactly the kind of person she is right away. She has no depth and she has nothing "hidden" it's all there in plain view. Perhaps this is a nerd's wet dream. A person who doesn't hide anything and makes her intentions clear as day.

Now the "dark secret" thing is valid for quickly done characters (like those created when you interact with them) and this is why I'm sticking with Yuna (who has none of that, but instead has good depth) as my example. I'm not out to defend every fucking character in the game industry, just pointing out an overrated boring-ass one and giving a comparable standard.

You noted that most people you meet have only a small bit of their "iceberg" visible. This is true. People generally wear a professional or friendly "mask" of sorts when they first meet people, and unless you spend more than a few hours with them you don't really find out what's underneath. So far we've known Alyx for about 2-3 days game time, over half of which she was somewhere else. You may say there's nothing "hidden" about her character, but the truth is we just don't know because we've never seen her outside of Gordon's eyes. There's no omniscient cut-scene between levels showing her arguing with Dr. Kleiner or obsessing over how much she's secretly in love with Barney, nor will there ever be. In short, we won't get to know her until Gordon gets to know her.

So how can a character like Yuna be so developed then? Well, welcome to the difference in writing for video games and writing for other media. =) In a first-person video game, YOU are the protagonist. This means the writer cannot simply say "Gordon likes Alyx", he actually has to convince the player that Alyx is someone worth liking. FFX's story on the other hand, does not play out from the first person, and the player isn't "stuck with" Yuna in the same way that they are with Alyx. If a player doesn't like Yuna's character it's far less game-breaking than if the character doesn't like Alyx. Moreover, although the player controls Tidus, he is completely separate from "Tidus the character". Whether or not the player likes Yuna has NO bearing on whether or not Tidus likes her, because their relationship has the luxury of only existing in cinematics. This is not so with Alyx and Gordon because the player IS Gordon.

 

[CriticalGriffin]

"Hey, let's rant about something popular and make people angry! Because ranting about popular stuff and angering people makes me cool and respected!!"

...
Seriously though, my experience on HL2 is actually quite limited, so I guess I actually have nothing to say on the matter.

 

[boholikeu]

Please answer this question for us. How does Gordon Freeman get championed as a good male character even though he is a blank slate. There are other blank slate characters in the past such as the Doom Trooper and old RPG characters yet people clamor behind them. Given how you are so ready to deconstruct Alex, how come Gordon has yet to receive such treatment.

He's characterized a bit in how the other character's react to him and through the player's available actions in game. It's not much, but it's pretty good considering how much people know about him compared to other "blank slate" characters of the time. I don't think he's nearly as great a protagonist as the main character from Bioshock though.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

I disagree on your point that Alyx Vance is a wholly undeveloped character, but I agree on your point that game characters are mostly shallow and underdeveloped.

I'll post more, but I have to go, and will post this just to find the thread again.

 

[jamesworkshop]

Yeah you're right. They just used a less common archetype found in video games. Still at least Valve is a subtle about it (Yes, i'm looking at you Bayonetta).

Bayonetta is overblown, over the top cheesecake thats the whole point to not be subtle

 

[Uber Waddles]

A well thought out arguement.

But, if I may ask; What isnt a stereotype?

No matter how you choose to make a character, have them form over the course of a game (novel and movie also) you're more then likely going to hit SOME stereotype.

Tomboy, prepish, emo, goth, cheery, whacky, gangster, crazy... No matter how you make someone, you can always twist them into SOME form of a stereotype. Look at almost any game, pick out any character (who is of significance), and they will more then likely fit into a niche. Lets look at a game with seemingly no plot; Left 4 Dead. We have Grizzled War Veteran (Bill), the biker with an attitude (Francis), college girl obsessed with things deemed "nerdy" (Zoey), and the calm, cool, collected office employee (Louis [some will argue that Louis is also included as he is the only member of a racial minority, which is a common theme in the horror movies L4D is commonly mocking. But Ill leave that decision up to you])

Playing Final Fantasy X, a lot, I disagree with your theory on Yuna being well developed. Yuna was pretty much just the girl who pushed the plot forward, following in her dads footsteps. Near the end, her moral stand isnt JUST Yunas doing; its because of the other characters (I believe Tidus and Auron are the main reasons, but I may be mistaken there).

The ENTIRE game Yuna just serves as a person to fill the plot. She doesnt really grow; no where as much as Tidus does. Arrogant Blitzball star to hero who fell in love. Tidus had to adapt, Yuna didnt.

Alyx was a fairly well developed character; not the greatest, but certainly better then the usually docile (or exceedingly snarky and "badass") stereotypes of female characters. Not perfect; probably on-par with Yuna. She didnt really grow, but her opinion is atleast made valid in the game; WITHOUT shoving two beach volley balls down her shirt and saying something along the lines of "Does this bikini make me look fat?"

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Except, as far as I recall, this is never stated or voiced in any fashion.

The state of the City, the presence of the Resistance, the visible opression and the atmosphere of resignation implied it strongly enough I'd say.

Nor is the counter-argument voiced by the "bad guy" humans, such as Breen. Does he actually believe what he says on the radio? It certainly doesn't seem like that. It's, like I said, assumed that if you put in gas-masked storm troopers then obviously everyone in the world is going to hate them. That doesn't make a motivation though, because a) people have hated a lot of regimes and lived under them peacefully and b) the Combine rule has many problems, so you can't just say "evil Combine" is the reason they're disliked.

Are they hated because they are inherently evil? Probably not. However, invading a planet, annihilating all the forces that oppose you, inhibiting the ability to breed, and instituting a brutal police state certainly won't earn you any friends even if you do it with the best intentions.

Is it because they're aliens?

People historically don't get along with those who are different.

Is it because their rule crushes freedom?

People often rebel when authority enchroaches too far into their homes.

Is it because they are biologically altering humans in a way that goes against God?

People are generally resistant to having loved ones taken for medical experimentation or indoctrination into a program against their will.

Is it because they are carefully and precisely ensuring that the human species ceases to exist in a few decades' time?

Given that, after day to day survival is assured continuation of the species is the over-arching goal of all known life, I'd say this would cause a fair amount of anger.

Is it because they are killing the planet?

Some may take issue with the destruction of their environment given that they see no personal gain and it directly contributes to the decline of the species.

Are they resisting simply because Combine rule inconveniences them personally?

If no other reason, good ole rebellion without any particular cause may work.

Are they resisting because humans are being killed?

Humans in general? Not at all - happens all the time and we don't bat an eye. When it's friends and family members on the other hand, people tend to get a bit emotional.

There are millions of reasons to hate the Combine, but Valve doesn't even explain one.

And yet you found plenty of plausible explnations, many of which are directly seen by the player in the game. Do you actually need to know why resistance fighter 20312A joined? Can you not draw a connection between world events and character action without it being explitly handed to you? If so, I would be forced to assume you don't care for reading or watching movies as the artists in question are often so callous as to expect the audience to make the connection for themelves.

They just vomit out "the Combine won," and "the Combine rule" and put in some areas where you run away from Combine or watch them beat civilians and assume that this is all the explanation you need.

You see evidence of oppression. You are shown that the world has been conquered. You are even told over the course of the game how it came to pass. I'm not sure precisely what more you think actually needs to be present for the narrative to maintain internal coherence.

You could take many scenes from the game where the Combine's "oppressive regime" is established and put them in the United States and they wouldn't be incredible or unbelievable.

I seem to recall that many times when scenes from the "oppressive regime" is made public, there is often an intense backlash. Remember when the Rodney King incident lead to widespread rioting? Now, if this was happening every day, in every city across the nation, inevitably things would come to a head.

The ecological and species-level damage (e.g. loss of oceans, destruction of environment, sterilization of the people) is the most declared and egregious damage, are we meant to assume that the characters hate the Combine because they're eating the ocean?

No, I'd say we could expect to hate the Combine because they have come where they were not asked and taken power by crushing those who opposed them. They maintain their rule with a police state where people are dissapeared. They deprive the species of one of the most basic goals of a living organism. They have wrought untold death and destruction on such a scale that it would seem every person who managed to survive has been directly and significantly impacted. These seem to be the most likely reasons one would choose to hate the Combine. The better question is why would anyone love the combine?

 

[Coldie]

Alyx is not a bad or a good character or person, she is a so-okay-it's-average character who constantly talks at the poor mute protagonist. Quite insensitive, really. It's a shame Episode 2 ended only halfway through its Happy Ending.

Now Dr. Kleiner is a fantastic character, one that doesn't have nearly enough screen time. Dr. Magnusson and Dr. Breen are very good, too, and hopefully will be featured again. If there's ever a sequel, that is. Ever.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Any kind of girl can be put into a 'fetish' box. Maybe you're over-thinking it a little? Maybe Valve just wanted to make a like able but badass character?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIP?

I think the unusual angle valve took with a secondary accomplice was good, a breath of fresh air. More to the point she compliments Gordon well. Freeman was valves attempt to take the spacemarine thing and ram it through a blender.Gordon is supposed to be someone righting his own wrongs as a HANDS ON scientist for black mesa, thus the ability to physically perform in combat situations. After all the first thing they did with the portal in the very first half life was ask Gordan to poke it. I think valve saw this new portagonist idea and decided he needed a a different type of accomplice to match him. thus alyx is born steering away from the godawful power armored idiots and their busty useless women. Alyx handles like a strong willed individual, the nerdy example of the girl next door implies on the subtler more submissive personality, Alyx is shown as strong willed, someone who fights for themselves and needs NO protection from you.

Alyx may not be a perfect or even deep character but shes a change of scene. Thats why i relate to her and Gordon well, they both seem like average people thrust into a situation that naturally bond without one being pumped with testosterone and one with silicon.

 

[Ldude893]

What, are people suddenly bumping this months old thread because the same author of this threat posted another equally idiotic threat?

I'd speak out my criticism about Cycloneman's argument, but Eclectic Dreck covered it all already.

Ignore, ignore.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Jade.

 

[RubyT]

She's a one-dimensional stereotype, designed by developers to appeal to a certain aspect of the male teenage and adult mind: The desire of someone's comfort and compassion.

The lengths to which you go to try to make that into something bad is fascinating.
"Listen, Alyx is a stereotype because, while she's not your scandily-clad, wise-cracking, ass-kicking babe, she's providing comfort and compassion."

I prefer Alyx the way she is, given how the entire Half-Life 2 story-arc (incl. the Eps) takes place over a couple of days, Alyx's screentime is limited, as she's not the protagonist of an RPG any development would be unrealisitic.

Valve are American and not Japanese and thus don't seem to feel the need to start every female character out as a little angsty girl (but yeah, Alyx is the stereotype...), only to "develop" her into a babe.

 

[Ubermetalhed]

I felt no attachment to Alyx, i found her a very dull uninvolving character.

She is very overated imo.