Am I A Terrible Person For Not Caring?

[jFr[e]ak93]

It seems that everyday people make a big deal out of gender equality in games.

Is it bad that I don't really care?

I didn't finish Mass Effect and think "Man, that game would have been better had there been more females".

Or play a chapter of The Walking Dead thinking "This would be better if Lee was Lea."

My point being, do people actually find a lack of female characters (playable and non) in games off putting?

Should I?

I'm not a girl, maybe that's part of the problem. Perhaps I would notice it more if I was.

I play a game for the game. The characters that come up in the game are part of that experience. Male and female. Do we really need a quota for either?

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Most certainly not. Games are a luxury hobby, so it's perfectly understandable that a lot of people don't wish to drag social issues into it. I understand why the issues get raised, but I don't think everyone should be expected to take part in it and fight for it.

Hell, I'm not really all that into it myself. All I want is interesting characters in general. I don't really care what sex and ethnicity they are, so long as they're well written.

 

[Keoul]

Nah, being called terrible would be going a bit too far. A lot of people are apathetic about it, especially in regards to gender issues. I mean yeah there's a problem there but the people complaining have labeled so many games as sexist that it really is hard to care.

 

[Gankytim]

No, you're perfectly fine.

People should stop looking at things as IS THIS CHARACTER MALE OR FEMALE? A good character will have multiple aspects.

Mild ASoIaF/GoT spoilers aheas.

Take Danyares from ASoIaF, i like her because she's a brutal and cunning if young and slightly naive character, my liking her character has NOTHING to do with her being female.

I also like Cersei because she serves as a mirror to Robert becoming the thing she grew to hate ever so slightly as the books progress on and on. Becoming more lustful and gluttonous as her power allows her more freedoms which she so desperately clings to.

I like Jaime because he's just a person trying to live up to everyones expectations of him, I grew an even greater respect for him when he threw his arms in the air, cried "FUCK THAT SHIZNIT" and went his own way, started making his own decisions.

But of all my favourite character would be Eddard, mainly because I thought he'd be the one main protagonist to start with, instead LOLNOPE just a decoy. But his character does enbody self-sacrifice for the greater good which is an endearing trait.

Spoilers end here.

Nowhere in the above examples is my endearment toward a character determined by their genitals, it's the same in video games. I'm just using ASoIaF as an example because everyone mostly knows it.

You shouldn't rally a dev to make a female character, rally them to make good characters. It's not wrong to have no female character it's wrong to have a bad character.

 

[Zhukov]

What, for being apathetic over the choices of an entertainment industry? Hardly.

Personally, I care primarily because I'd just like to see some more variety.

Variety is interesting. Homogeny is not. Characters of numerous different colours and creeds are interesting. The parade of thirty-something, brown haired white tough guys is not.

I mean, I'm a twenty-something white guy. If I want to see my idealised self image in a game, I can pretty much walk up to the new release shelf, close my eyes and throw a fucking rock. We're pretty much set for white dudes in gaming.

I have nothing against the people who feel offended or marginalised or ignored or underserved and speak up about it. But I can't be offended/marginalised/etc for them. I have no problem playing games full of characters of different gender or ethnicity to myself, so I see no downside to the diversification "agenda".

 

[Elfgore]

No, you'd be surprised by how many people like your track of thinking. We had a thread a couple months back asking if the issue was diversity or just if the game world is filled with boring characters. I think most thought it was boring characters. So, no. I'd say you're not terrible. In the end all it video games are is entertainment. The only time I've seen problems arise is when the studios, like Rockstar and Ubisoft, say that adding a female character is too hard or wouldn't sell. That's when people get angry.

 

[Caiphus]

It depends on what you mean by "not caring", OP. There is a difference between not caring about something because it's not important to you, and showing contempt for people who do care. And I'm not saying you're the latter.

I'll give you an example. I think it's bad that Francois Hollande has an approval rating in the low twenties, and seems inept at running his country. I also think it's bad that Spain's youth unemployment has been on the naughty side of 50% for the past couple of years. But I barely give either of those issues thought, I just have other shit in my life. If I was Spanish or French, I would certainly care. And it must obviously suck for people who do care. But I'm on the other side of the planet.

And you, OP, are probably just enjoying video games that are tailored to appeal to your general demographic. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily. If you felt absolutely zero empathy for other people who do care then that might be slightly bad form, but whatever. It still wouldn't make you a Terrible Person. You'd at least need to start some sort of fire for that.

 

[Andy Shandy]

No, I would say terrible, you're just ignorant (the "it doesn't affect you" way, not the rude way) of it, which is understandable.

The main reasons I care is because I want some variety, I'm just sick of playing as brown haired, 20-40 year old white guys. And I am a 20-something brown-haired white guy!

The people I don't understand though are those that are dead set against it. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

 

[Phasmal]

ak93]It seems that everyday people make a big deal out of gender equality in games.

Is it bad that I don't really care?

Not really. It's not `good` that you don't care. You just don't care. It's pretty neutral.

ak93]

My point being, do people actually find a lack of female characters (playable and non) in games off putting?

I dunno. Guys have told me that they find playing as female characters off-putting, and judging from the developers reluctance to put women in games, seems that they think guys would find it off-putting too. So, is it so crazy to imagine that girls would find playing as men (like almost all the time) off-putting?

ak93]
Should I?

Do what you like. I want variety in my games, and I feel that's something they sorely lack. Especially main-character wise. People often ask me why it matters what gender or race a character is; first of all- representation is important, and secondly- if it didn't matter, we wouldn't have any reason why most characters seem to have to be white males.

ak93]
I'm not a girl, maybe that's part of the problem. Perhaps I would notice it more if I was.

You probably would, but who knows.

ak93]
I play a game for the game. The characters that come up in the game are part of that experience. Male and female.

Do we really need a quota for either?

I also p[lay a game for the game. But the game includes the characters, like you said.
I should bloody well hope we wouldn't need a quota. But once again, if this all doesn't matter- why white males all the time?

Many people think pushing for inclusion in games is too much of a `political statement`. Well, leaving people out is also a statement.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

Both mass effect and the walking dead do a good job including diversity and interesting charters, so no it's not really surprising that you wouldn't feel the need to add more.

 

[stroopwafel]

No, I don't really care either. Most games have their stories and characters crafted as an afterthought, with gameplay and world design being the primary focus. That planners and designers of games resort to stock characters so often is ample evidence of how low it is on the priority list. You need to completely turn around the design process to have interesting stories and characters with story first and gameplay second. There are only very few games(Last of Us, Mass Effect, Silent Hill, Deus Ex etc.) that pull this off successfully. None of these games re-invent the wheel when it comes to gameplay but they compensate this with their excellent stories and characters. Without its story the Mass Effect series would just be a forgettable third person shooter instead of the classic it is today.

So, the reason I don't care that much about gender equality in games is the general poor quality of storytelling. That publishers should be pressured into making some politically correct concessions to interest groups won't change that fact. It also doesn't help that most game designers and writers are men, so even if there are women in videogames they are made up by men. Meaning these characters are mostly just dudes with boobs. Take Tomb Raider for example. Great game with little to no sexist approach to its protagonist, but the downside is that she basically exhibits absolutely no traits that would differentiate her as a female. She trashes an entire mercenary army by her lonesome just like any male stock character would do. We played as Lara but we could just as well played like a space marine from Mars and it absolutely would not have made a difference.

What I would whole-heartedly welcome is more female writers in the games industry. Just for the sake of diversity and originality. Not forced 'gender equality' will make a better game but a different angle on context, setting and characters most definitely will. Amy Hennig is probably one of my favorite people in videogames and the deeply philosophical and labyrinthine Legacy of Kain series she penned was simply fantastic. Probably one of my most favorite stories in a videogame.

So yeah, what the industry needs is no fake 'gender equality' in games but rather more women like Amy Hennig working for it.

 

[Gankytim]

Both mass effect and the walking dead do a good job including diversity and interesting charters, so no it's not really surprising that you wouldn't feel the need to add more.

Eh, I think BioWare deserves a little criticism on that front. It felt like they were including homosexual relationships for the sake of inclusivity rather than actually including them in a way that wasn't just semi-heartlessly exploiting the gay demographic.

Again, inclusivity for the sake of telling a story, perfectly fine. Inclusivity just so you can claim inclusivity and sell copies, not fine.

I'm not going to say it's a cold hard fact that BioWare was exploiting their gay audience, but I'm saying it surely felt that way, especially given how poorly written it was in ME3. They couldn't write the gay shuttle pilot in ME3 well enough to make me remember his name, I think the gay audience deserves better than that.

Shit I'd be comfortable playing a transgendered character, just saying if the character was transgendered just for the sake of being transgendered then what's the point?

 

[Longing]

that's fine if you don't care, just don't get uppity on the ones who do.

 

[Pink Gregory]

Well it's not so much about adjusting what already exists, it's a matter of considering what *could* exist.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Shit I'd be comfortable playing a transgendered character, just saying if the character was transgendered just for the sake of being transgendered then what's the point?

A few years ago I might've agreed, but now "for the sake of it" would be very welcoming.

The industry still seems very much stuck in its prepubescent stage - as a matter of fact it seems to have gotten slightly worse last gen - and in order to finally mature it'll need to suffer through some growing pains. If that means "for the sake of it" so we can achieve some balance then so be it.

OT: No. Same as I'm not a terrible person for not caring about every issue that plagues this Earth. And you obviously care enough to wonder if you're a terrible person for not caring.

 

[Gankytim]

Shit I'd be comfortable playing a transgendered character, just saying if the character was transgendered just for the sake of being transgendered then what's the point?

A few years ago I might've agreed, but now "for the sake of it" would be very welcoming.

The industry still seems very much stuck in its prepubescent stage - as a matter of fact it seems to have gotten slightly worse last gen - and in order to finally mature it'll need to suffer through some growing pains. If that means "for the sake of it" so we can achieve some balance then so be it.

OT: No. Same as I'm not a terrible person for not caring about every issue that plagues this Earth. And you obviously care enough to wonder if you're a terrible person for not caring.

I take MAJOR issue there. I have a few controversial opinions and ideologies. Now if my opinions and ideologies were represented in video games "for the sake of it" rather than to actualy explore and dissect and weigh their percieved morals the good and the bad I'd be uncomfortable, maybe even offended depending on how bad the portrayal was.

Come to think of it this criticism doesn't just weigh up against video games but all media.

Yes, by all means explore these things, explore humanity but don't do it for the sake of it.

 

[Phasmal]

I take MAJOR issue there. I have a few controversial opinions and ideologies. Now if my opinions and ideologies were represented in video games "for the sake of it" rather than to actualy explore and dissect and weigh their percieved morals the good and the bad I'd be uncomfortable, maybe even offended depending on how bad the portrayal was.

Come to think of it this criticism doesn't just weigh up against video games but all media.

Yes, by all means explore these things, explore humanity but don't do it for the sake of it.

Yeah, but being a human other than male an white isn't a controversial opinion or an ideology. They don't need to be explored or dissected because these people exist and deserve to be represented just as much as white guys do.

I hate it when people say `Don't put a female (for example) in a game for no reason`.
Like, why do you need a reason to be female?

 

[Casual Shinji]

I take MAJOR issue there. I have a few controversial opinions and ideologies. Now if my opinions and ideologies were represented in video games "for the sake of it" rather than to actualy explore and dissect and weigh their percieved morals the good and the bad I'd be uncomfortable, maybe even offended depending on how bad the portrayal was.

Come to think of it this criticism doesn't just weigh up against video games but all media.

Yes, by all means explore these things, explore humanity but don't do it for the sake of it.

Well, maybe it's about time we stop making a big deal out of it. Why should a gay character be subjugated to an exploration of what it means to be gay? Who cares? Do you care about what heterosexuallity means to Solid Snake, and how it defines him as a person?