Am I going to be getting what I'm paying for here?

[Tsukuyomi]

So reading and posting in another topic here made me realize that I should have come to the fine folk of the Escapist for this problem before, but thankfully I haven't shelled out money yet so I can get an opinion before I do so:

Basically my computer is getting on in years and I decided it's high-time to get a new rig. As I have no interest in the upcoming console-cycle right now, I thought a gaming computer would be nice. One that I could play games that I want to play for a while before having to worry about if I can run the blasted things. Knowing it might cost me a good amount, I went out to a local store that specializes in building them and got a quote for one. I'd walked in knowing what companies like Alienware offer, and also knowing that Alienware is notorious for being overpriced, but the quote I was given differed only by a couple hundred dollars.

Basically I'd just like some opinions on the machine they quoted out for me. Will it last me a reasonably long time? Am I being duped into buying things that are more expensive than I really need but will still perform well in the future? Is there something I should be wary of/looking out for aside from the typical upsell to a customer who may not know better?

Here's what they've quoted me:

-Intel Core i7-4770 Processor-s1150, 3.4/3.9 GHz, Quad Core, HT, 8M Cache, HD4600 Graphics
-GeForce GTX650 2GB GDDR5
-650 Watt continuous power supply
-Seagate 1TB 7200RPM SATA 600 64MB Cache
-2 PC3-10600 4GB DDR3-1333
-2 PC3-10600 2GB DDR3-1333MHz
-Integrated Network Card
-On-board Sound

Obviously not everything is listed but the other stuff is the case, DVI-D/VGA/HDMI slots, etc.

The grand total for everything they quoted me was $1,263. Which isn't totally out of line with what I've seen, but I'd prefer to know that I'm getting what I want and, preferably, not getting ripped off if I could go with a cheaper yet just-as-good option. Any opinions?

If you want any other specifics I can try and list them from the sheet I have, but it honestly doesn't give much beyond the parts.

 

[IndomitableSam]

One year ago I got an i7 3770 and a GTX 670 card with 8 gigs of ram (pretty sure it's 8), and the thing runs like a beast. I don't know computers that well, but you might be able to scale back on the processor a bit and up the card a little.

For a bit of reference, I play FFXIV with over 100 FPS at times, usually 60+, and run Skyrim with about 100 mods, many of them graphic enhancement. It has had no issues running anything on max settings. I even can run Civ V on max settings on huge maps with the max number of civs going. I have no Battlefield or anything to offer up more comparisons for. But everything I throw at it, it just laughs at me.

Edit: It was a year, edited. Had said two.

Also, I overpaid a bit for mine, but I paid just under $2000 Canadian for it. So the price seems pretty good... Assuming you're Canadian.

 

[deleted139124]

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[deleted139124]

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[CrankyCorvus]

The thing I'm most concerned about here is the RAM. The PC's going to have 2 4GB sticks AND another 2 2GB sticks? What's the point? This kind of mix/matching sounds like a terrible idea. You only really need the 2 4GB sticks for a total of 8GB for gaming, anyway.

That CPU is also unnecessarily high-end. An i5 is just as good for gaming and costs quite a bit less, too. I don't know typical PC component prices in USD, so I'm just speculating here, but you'd probably save 100$ if you got an i5 and that 100$ plus the money you'd save on not getting the 2x2GB RAM (probably another 50$ or so) could be spent on a better graphics card. The GTX 650 isn't all that great (this, of course, depends on the resolution you're going to be playing at).

650W continuous power supply? Who's the manufacturer of the unit? Is it 80+ certified? I'd never buy a PSU without knowing these two facts.

Did they tell you which case they would use for it? Or which motherboard? Would it come with an OS license?

Someone more knowledgeable about US prices can correct me here if I'm wrong, but 1,263$ does kind of sound like a lot for that level of rig, even if they charge you for assembling it for you.

EDIT: Some people may badmouth Seagate because, according to said people, their HDD's are crap. They may've been in the past but I heard they're much better now. 1TB should be plenty of space, too, and it's 7200rpm with a 64MB cache, both of which are good things.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Here's what they've quoted me:

-Intel Core i7-4770 Processor-s1150, 3.4/3.9 GHz, Quad Core, HT, 8M Cache, HD4600 Graphics
-GeForce GTX650 2GB GDDR5
-650 Watt continuous power supply
-Seagate 1TB 7200RPM SATA 600 64MB Cache
-2 PC3-10600 4GB DDR3-1333
-2 PC3-10600 2GB DDR3-1333MHz
-Integrated Network Card
-On-board Sound

Obviously not everything is listed but the other stuff is the case, DVI-D/VGA/HDMI slots, etc.

The grand total for everything they quoted me was $1,263. Which isn't totally out of line with what I've seen, but I'd prefer to know that I'm getting what I want and, preferably, not getting ripped off if I could go with a cheaper yet just-as-good option. Any opinions?

If you want any other specifics I can try and list them from the sheet I have, but it honestly doesn't give much beyond the parts.

That is an unbalanced-as-hell gaming PC if I've ever seen one. A Core i7-4770 (very high end CPU) with only a GTX 650 (entry level graphics card)? For the money you're paying, you could get a much much better gaming computer.

The thing is, your CPU isn't AS important as a lot of people might think. When you're building a gaming PC, you generally want to spend more of your money on your graphics card than your CPU. A processor like a Core i5-4430 is ~$120 cheaper than that Core i7-4770 and is still more than enough to run pretty much any modern game on the market.

I'm also not really keen on that power supply. Do they tell you what brand it is? Whether it's 80 Plus certified? Unless they do, I can't really say much about it.

The hard drive looks fine to me. Seagate is a reliable brand and 1TB is plenty of space for games.

I'm also not really sure about the RAM here. Is that list meant to say that there are two 4GB RAM sticks and two 2GB RAM sticks in the same computer? Also, do you know what brand it is?

They really didn't bother listing brands. I took a chance even going there since it's the kind of place that if you have to ask questions, you're in the wrong place. I knew a bit and I had some ideas of what I wanted and didn't want, but I knew I didn't know enough.

I thought vaguely about going down to an i5 since it is a cheaper option, but right now I'm running a Radeon HD 4650 in this old unit and it's thus far done everything I've asked. What's starting to go is other components that I haven't upgraded.

The full explanation on the power-supply is as follows:

"Coolermaster GX 650 Power Supply-650W continuous, 780W peak, Single Rail, 5 Year Warranty, 80 Plus"

As far as the RAM goes, that mystified me too: I often don't have problems with RAM and I don't have a whole of a hell lot of it on this machine. I don't exactly plan to be running a high-end game on one screen and MAKING a high-end game on the other or using Photoshop or basically anything else that's a massive resource-hog. Granted my machine chugs pretty hard when I play League or Team Fortress 2, but it's old, and I haven't always taken the best care of it (a problem I plan to rectify with this next model), so I understand that.

I'm actually planning on having them handle the build of it. I've never built a PC before and although it's probably not a terribly daunting task, I'm not sure it's one I want to try with no experience under my belt. I've added RAM and other parts before, but a whole machine from scratch is a bit much for me.

EDIT:

They gave me a choice between Windows 7 and 8 and since I loathe 8 I went with 7. As for a motherboard the only thing I have on here that I haven't listed is:

"ASUS B85M-G - s1150 (Haswell) MATX, No RAID support, DVI-D/VGA/HDMI"

 

[CrankyCorvus]

The fact that they didn't bother listing brands makes many alarm bells go off in my head. That and the frankly stupid config make me think I'd go to a different vendor if I were you.

Hell, I'm positive I and many other users on this forum could do a much better job.

By the way, do you have any friends who've built their own rigs? What I did when I first got into PC gaming was have a friend assemble it for me (I picked out the parts with help from a tech forum) and I watched him do it. Then, when I upgraded, I built my own. Since then I've switched cases and added things myself and am confident in my abilities.

EDIT: Ok, at least the PSU isn't a total bomb. 80+ Bronze is nice and the warranty's of a nice length, too.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Hrm....I wonder what people would come up with if I just asked? Shapaza's build looks pretty good from where I'm sitting and not just based on the cheaper price.

I don't need to be totally future-proof, I don't mind replacing parts as long as I know my system won't freak out at me if and/or when I do. Video card and power supply I've done, as well as RAM, it's just replacing things like the CPU that would bother me since I don't know how the system would act. Would it just boot up and notice 'hey! I got more power! I'll keep on working as I should.' or would it require something more in-depth than just putting things in place and turning it on?

for that matter, my biggest concern with building a new system from scratch is the OS. If I do it, how does installing an OS onto a machine that doesn't have an existing OS work? Drop in the disc and pray? what's the deal?

I'd kinda like to build the thing myself. I'd enjoy the new experience and I kind of think of it as the nerd version of building your first car. But I have to fight REALLY hard with myself to not panic when something goes wrong that I don't know how to fix or I'm not expecting and that's NOT a good thing to have when dealing with a PC like this. Though I might be able to call certain family-members who might be willing to help me....

 

[deleted139124]

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[Tsukuyomi]

Yeah, if you're just gonna use this PC for gaming, 4-8GB RAM is generally where you want to be. Any more than that is a waste of money (unless you're doing stuff like Photoshop or video editing).
Like CrankyCorvus said, that PSU isn't too bad. It at least has 80 Plus certification and good warranty. However, I'd go with a PSU brand that has a well-established reputation just to be safe. Corsair, Seasonic, XFX, and Antec all make pretty good PSUs.

I built my own gaming PC and have never had a shop build one for me, so forgive me for this dumb question. Can you just buy parts from, say, Amazon, bring those parts to the shop, and have them assemble it for you?
If so, I (and others) can create a build on PCPartPicker that suits your budget and needs, and you can just order the parts from wherever you want.

I'd be willing to bet I could coax them into doing it, especially if I walk in with a parts list and see how many of those parts they have. If they have everything and I pay them to build it I'm sure they'd do it. Even if I bought the parts and held back on a case and bought one from them they might too, but I'm not sure. I can probably give them a phone-call and find out easily. Hell, even if they say no what's the worst that happens? I have family-members who have been building and tinkering with PCs for probably the last decade or more. If the worst that happens is I have to call them and ask for help in exchange for a case of beer or something, that's cheap enough for me.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

It's certainly future proof.

I don't know why, but I prefer AMD processors. They are pretty good(mine isn't my bottleneck and it's not top of the line) and significantly cheaper. You can cut that cost more than in half with an AMD 8 core processor like the FX 8150 or by 100 dollars with something more top of the line like an FX 8350. Also AMD, while lagging a bit in performance, makes it ridiculously easy to overclock(it's generally contained in the software and has a handy little slider), which presents no danger if your computer is properly ventilated and cooled.

Personally, I'd upgrade to a GTX 660. It's not that much more expensive(actually can be nearly the same price if you look on Newegg and it's just better).

I went on PCpartpicker and went with a build that would deliver solid gaming performance but wouldn't be as expensive. The build I came up with costs 968 USD after a few rebates.

Spoiler

Current Part List
Parts Are Compatible: No issues/incompatibilities found.Estimated Wattage: 385W
Component Selection Base Price Promo Shipping Tax Price Where
CPU

AMD FX-8150 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor $159.99 -$20.00 FREE $139.99 Newegg
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Buy
+ $20 off w/ promo code EMCWWXN43, ends 11/13
CPU Cooler

Antec KUHLER Flow CPU Cooler $29.27 FREE $29.27 Amazon
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Buy
Motherboard

Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard $94.99 FREE $94.99 Amazon
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Buy
Memory

Corsair Dominator 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory $96.76 $96.76 NCIX US
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Add Additional Memory
Storage

Western Digital Caviar Blue 750GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $63.98 $63.98 OutletPC
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Add Additional Storage
Video Card

EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card $199.99 -$20.00 $179.99 Microcenter
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$20.00 mail-in rebate
Wired Network Adapter

Asus NX1101 10/100/1000 Mbps PCI Network Adapter $15.99 $15.99 Mwave
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Case

Antec Eleven Hundred ATX Full Tower Case $99.99 -$25.00 FREE $74.99 Newegg
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$25.00 mail-in rebate
Case Fan

Antec 75003 79.0 CFM 120mm Fan $10.40 $10.40 Mwave
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Antec 75003 79.0 CFM 120mm Fan $10.40 $10.40 Mwave
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Power Supply

Antec EarthWatts Platinum 650W 80 PLUS Platinum Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply $101.99 -$30.00 FREE $71.99 Newegg
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$30.00 mail-in rebate
Optical Drive

Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer $57.99 -$10.00 FREE $47.99 Newegg
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+ $10 off w/ promo code EMCWWXN63, ends 11/13
Add Another Optical Drive
Operating System

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) $89.98 -$5.00 $84.98 OutletPC
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$5.00 mail-in rebate
Keyboard

A4Tech G800V Wired Gaming Keyboard $29.99 FREE $29.99 Newegg
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Mouse

A4Tech D-120 Wired Optical Mouse $16.35 FREE $16.35 Amazon
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Bu

 

[clippen05]

So reading and posting in another topic here made me realize that I should have come to the fine folk of the Escapist for this problem before, but thankfully I haven't shelled out money yet so I can get an opinion before I do so:

Basically my computer is getting on in years and I decided it's high-time to get a new rig. As I have no interest in the upcoming console-cycle right now, I thought a gaming computer would be nice. One that I could play games that I want to play for a while before having to worry about if I can run the blasted things. Knowing it might cost me a good amount, I went out to a local store that specializes in building them and got a quote for one. I'd walked in knowing what companies like Alienware offer, and also knowing that Alienware is notorious for being overpriced, but the quote I was given differed only by a couple hundred dollars.

Basically I'd just like some opinions on the machine they quoted out for me. Will it last me a reasonably long time? Am I being duped into buying things that are more expensive than I really need but will still perform well in the future? Is there something I should be wary of/looking out for aside from the typical upsell to a customer who may not know better?

Here's what they've quoted me:

-Intel Core i7-4770 Processor-s1150, 3.4/3.9 GHz, Quad Core, HT, 8M Cache, HD4600 Graphics
-GeForce GTX650 2GB GDDR5
-650 Watt continuous power supply
-Seagate 1TB 7200RPM SATA 600 64MB Cache
-2 PC3-10600 4GB DDR3-1333
-2 PC3-10600 2GB DDR3-1333MHz
-Integrated Network Card
-On-board Sound

Obviously not everything is listed but the other stuff is the case, DVI-D/VGA/HDMI slots, etc.

The grand total for everything they quoted me was $1,263. Which isn't totally out of line with what I've seen, but I'd prefer to know that I'm getting what I want and, preferably, not getting ripped off if I could go with a cheaper yet just-as-good option. Any opinions?

If you want any other specifics I can try and list them from the sheet I have, but it honestly doesn't give much beyond the parts.

I won't try to dissuade you from getting a pre-build, but that is some serious marking-up. Especially for that graphics card... the GTX 650 is pretty bad. If you can look at some other configurers online or spend a bit more, I'd highly recommend you get a better graphics card. GTX 760 is really good in the value for performance department, or even the 660... but the 650 really isn't a good card for gaming.

Edit: I don't know what country you are from, but you said U.S. dollars, so I assume the U.S. If you wanna take a look at CyberpowerPC.com and their configurators, you'll get a much better bang for your buck. In particular, you can get the Z85 Intel i5 configurator with a GTX760, 8gb of RAM, a good PSU of your choice, and the rest of the parts (I only had time to take a quick glance.) for around $1000. Or if you want an i7 you can get it for a similar price to your other configurator but with a much better graphics card and I can't stress that enough how important that is. If you have any questions on PC parts, feel free to PM me... because to be honest, that much money for only a GTX 650 is kinda a rip off and I'd hate to see someone potentially get ripped off

 

[RaNDM G]

That's not a bad set-up, but you can get away with an i5 4670 and put that money into a GTX 770 or an R9280X. You'll have an arguably better build for the same price range.

I recommend following Logical Increments. They have several different builds for gaming rigs that fit all kinds of budgets, and they update their parts list often.

Spoiler: Here's what I recommend following the Outstanding guide:

Green is base for the price range. Red is upgraded.
[HEADING=3][color]Graphics:[/color] GTX 770[color].[/color] $330[/HEADING]Faster for a bit more than the R9280X. Some games will have software issues with AMD cards; that extra thirty dollars will be worth the price.

[HEADING=3][color]Processor:[/color] i5 4670[color].[/color] $219[/HEADING]Will do the job. You can purchase an unlocked CPU for ten dollars more for dabbling in overclocking, but no performance difference out of the box.

[HEADING=3][color]Heat Sink:[/color] Frio[color].[/color] $56[/HEADING] Good price for a big fan.

[HEADING=3][color]Motherboard: [/color] MSI Z87-GD65[color].[/color] $178[/HEADING] High-end motherboard with more than enough ports, only $18 more than the base recommended Z87X-UD3H. You could go higher if you wanted built in WiFi, but unless you depend on a wireless router, I wouldn't.

8GB RAM, a 1TB HDD, a 620W power supply, and a good case will put you back another $326, but this build will also allow you to throw in a 120GB Solid State drive and still stay within budget. Windows will start real quick on an SSD, and keeping a back-up is almost essential for a desktop PC. Your choice.

[HEADING=3][color]Base Total:[/color] $1,109[color].[/color][/HEADING]
[HEADING=3][color]With 128GB SanDisk SSD:[/color] $1,204[color], tax not included. Not bad if I say so myself.[/color][/HEADING]

 

[deleted139124]

DELETED

 

[Mr.Savage]

for that matter, my biggest concern with building a new system from scratch is the OS. If I do it, how does installing an OS onto a machine that doesn't have an existing OS work? Drop in the disc and pray? what's the deal?

That's pretty much the easiest part of the build. Once everything is assembled, you just go in the motherboard BIOS on start-up (If everything else works, of course ), select the option to make it boot from the CD drive, then pop in your CD and reboot. Then it's just an easy step-by-step setup process.

Personally I would recommend building your own, just because you can save so much money. The learning experience is nice too.

If you do go that route, be sure to do a ton a research on what parts would be optimal for you. And it's a huge help to have an already working computer nearby, so if you encounter any problems, you're pretty much guaranteed to find a solution from some forum or article.

Also,

I don't know why, but I prefer AMD processors. They are pretty good(mine isn't my bottleneck and it's not top of the line) and significantly cheaper.

This man speaks the truth. I've had nothing but excellent experiences with AMD CPU's. They're substantially better bang for your buck, in my opinion.

 

[thiosk]

I despise AMD and ATI. Everyone has their own opinion.

What struck me as bizzare was your ram set. a 4gb slot and a 2 gb slot?

You do matched sets. Do not mix and match yo ram. 8 gb in 2 fours is fine.

I tend to overdo processor and go with a smaller graphics card. In two years youll be able to plop in a new graphics card and it will be like a brand new computer for 250. I bought a bleeding edge i7 a bit past launch and it is doing FINE today, one graphics card later. I'm only just starting to think about investing in a new computer, but that will probably wait until I move to my next job.

The single greatest performance thing you can do for a computer is to put the OS on an SSD. Put all your programs on the 1tb, but a 128 gb solid will do amazing things for your PC. Image it though, because the tech is still a bit unreliable and they tend to pith themselves periodically.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

As people have been saying, maybe balance out your CPU to up your graphics card. A 650 is pretty low grade in power. Even the 660 and 660TI could tear it apart in some cases. I went with a 760 myself for $250 or so, and it's absolutely brilliant. So, maybe give those two areas some more thought. Hell, look online, even go to the Tek Syndicate Forums. They were the ones who helped me make my build, and I owe its power to them

 

[Elvis Starburst]

for that matter, my biggest concern with building a new system from scratch is the OS. If I do it, how does installing an OS onto a machine that doesn't have an existing OS work? Drop in the disc and pray? what's the deal?

That's pretty much the easiest part of the build. Once everything is assembled, you just go in the motherboard BIOS on start-up (If everything else works, of course ), select the option to make it boot from the CD drive, then pop in your CD and reboot. Then it's just an easy step-by-step setup process.

Personally I would recommend building your own, just because you can save so much money. The learning experience is nice too.

If you do go that route, be sure to do a ton a research on what parts would be optimal for you. And it's a huge help to have an already working computer nearby, so if you encounter any problems, you're pretty much guaranteed to find a solution from some forum or article.

Also,

I don't know why, but I prefer AMD processors. They are pretty good(mine isn't my bottleneck and it's not top of the line) and significantly cheaper.

This man speaks the truth. I've had nothing but excellent experiences with AMD CPU's. They're substantially better bang for your buck, in my opinion.

8350 for the wiiiiiiiiiiinnnn!!!!! Loving it so far~

 

[Caiphus]

The main real problem I'd have with the build is, as others have mentioned, that the graphics card is really rather average. Especially when you're spending $1200 on the machine, it should be a lot better than that.

The processor is also really good. Too good for the graphics card, really. So you'll end up with an unbalanced PC for gaming.

Use this website, albeit with a little bit of caution since all the benchmarks are, I believe, submitted by users:

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

You can also switch the graphs to performance/price if you want to maximise your budget.

If you want to future proof your PC against the PS4/Xbone then you'll probably need something at or above the GTX 660/7870. The graph shows the gtx 650 coming quite a bit further down the list and even the 650 ti boost, a large improvement, probably won't quite match:

Spoiler: GTX 650 ti boost v GTX 660 youtube clip

Edit: Someone above has linked logical increments. Very good. Use them. It may be better to buy the parts yourself and then find someone willing to put the parts together for a fee?

Further Edit: Oh, and with regards to future proofing, I believe Dexter111 linked a picture a week or so ago that shows the relevant position of the PS4 and Xbone on the above website:

Spoiler: PS4 Xbone PC comparison image