Am I just at fault?

[Bocaj2000]

On a physical standpoint, knowledge does not change anything. You are nothing but meat and bones no matter what actions you take. However, I was asked about morals. Morals require thought and judgement. Knowledge of one's actions and consequences must be taken into account when debating morals. Sometimes it changes everything and sometimes it doesn't. This is a situation in which I believe that knowledge of plot makes a difference.

Howe does knowledge changes things? Has him knowing or not changed:
a: the fact the the boyfriend was betrayed?
b: the fact that the girl lied?
c: the fact that the girl had sex with another person?
Answer to all of them is NO. therefore, from a psychological standpoint there is no diference. difference can be incurred by your own personal beliefs, and thats the only difference in there. however you have absolutely no right to judge his personal morals. morals are not some universal item that is true the same to everyone. no. what you talk about is societal norms. you know, the thing that changes constantly based on what people are the majority and how well can they attack minority for not acting like them.

I have already agreed that the cheater is at fault. You don't have to prove this to me.

As for your loaded questions, let me match them with objective questions:
a: Who is betraying the boyfriend?
b: Who will have to lie to cover their tracks?
c: Who is being unfaithful?

If the second guy doesn't know about the girl's boyfriend, then yes, the girl is the only answer to these questions. This is something that we both agree on. In this case, ignorance puts all the fault on the cheater.

But once the second guy is aware that he is participating in her affair and chooses to sleep with her anyway, he is included in the answers of A and B. With the attained knowledge that the man is partaking in an affair, he betrays the boyfriend and lies as well. Whether or not he cares is up to him.

 

[Stampede]

You are both equally at fault. Takes two to cheat. The moment you found out that one of her friendly benefits has a name and a face you are part of the whole shebang. In my opinion, given the fact that you are colleagues, you should come to terms with what your stakes in the relationship are and go from there. It is respectable at the very least to be honest to yourselves and one-another. There are a lot of options in a relationship like this that depend on a lot of complicated things (your emotions for one another, your personal morale, her feelings for "the other guy", the details and logistics of a relationship in the workplace... to name a few) and range from keeping it a secret to coming out and telling her man of the whole thing...

 

[Strazdas]

Except that the guy is not drunk. he did nothing that would make him drunk in this analogy. your example does not work. either that or you have to explain it better.

I think it's the latter. Okay, switch drunk to someone who chooses to text behind the wheel. It's just as much an issue as drunk driving. And sorta same. And you're sober. You know you should pay attention to the road. You know you could in an accident if you text while you're on the move... but you just have finish this wonderful conversation with this person for whatever reason. Besides, you know what you're doing. You're an awesome driver. Until suddenly you're not. You crash. Someone gets hurt. Oh damn, what now?

Well, texting behind a wheel is illegal. at least here. so theres that. but we can brust that as its not important for our discussion. you are at fault for crashing, yes. however the driver texting in this case would be the girl in our situation. she chose to do this. the car - tool - the OP, is not at fault she chose to text. And cars are sentient. well not really but now we are experimenting with cars that look at you and decide if your sleeping, if you talking on a phone or whatever and notice you not to. cars are begining to have a choice. yay for robots
if i have to finish a conversation i finish it when i arrive at the destination. if destination is far away ill stop and then finish it. but its because im selfish - i dont want to crash MY car. I still dont see how you can consider the OP as the guy who choses to text in front of a wheel. sorry, i dont.

And I think likelihood is very important. It's the whole point of this. I never said someone wasn't gonna be happy just because boyfriend is in pain. Of course someone will be. But more likely than not, their happiness will cause his pain. Certainly his anger and betrayal. Any post on a forum has a 50/50 shot of making someone happy or unhappy. Perhaps even a 50/50 shot of upsetting another poster which leads to another one happy. There's no 50/50 chance with the cheating. It's 100% chance straight up causing someone pain/anger by causing another's happiness or pleasure. Maybe not immediately. Maybe not quickly. But it's a done deal. There's the difference.

if likelyhood is important, we should follow the rules only when the likelyhood of bad outcome is high. i dont agree at all. your own analogy above is good example. the likelyhood that you crash a car texting is very very small. but its not a good idea nevertheless. because its not a good idea regardless of likelyhood.

CHeating is not a 100% chance of pain. the person being cheated may have been trying to get out of the relationship and use it as an excuse, he may have another one he wants to get into, there is never a 100% chance of him breaking up in pain.

As far as your precedent argument goes, both girl and OP have decided that their mutual sexual pleasure takes precedence. This is the whole wrong thing because again, it's at the expense of someone else. So no, being unfaithful is never good and never will be good. There can never be an excuse in my eyes. And happiness doesn't always mean good. Of course pain doesn't always mean bad either but still...

if a possibility of someone else feeling pain is reason enough to stop the activity then we should stop..... pretty much all laws because all thier enforcement takes place at the expense of someone else. (im not talking whether its good or bad, merely that the logic of "its expense of someone else therefore it should not be allowed" is bad). Things are situational and context matters. sadly, we got very little of it.

Yeah, negative consequences.

Well, why not? I'm just gonna ask that. We who think there should be have been getting asked why. Now I wanna know why people like you don't think there should be? Is it simply because he's just not dating the guy? Is that really all there is to it?

yes, negative consequences from the boyfriend acting irrational is possible. however irrationality should never be reason for a rule.
There should be no consequence for the OP because he did no damage. damage was done by the girl - lieing (lieing about being in exclusive relationship, lieing about not breaking it up). therefore the consequence shall follow onto her. the guy is not the one who did anything deserving consequence.

I wasn't saying otherwise. Of course, most monogamous types I think use the word "claiming" more than anything. The whole belonging deal. But yeah, that's the gist. It shouldn't be giving up her free will to keep herself faithful. She chose to be in a monogamous relationship, did she not? I highly doubt he forced her into this or that she didn't know what being in that relationship would mean.

i agree that if she signed up for the relationship as you decribed she is at fault for not keeping it up. but one would have to be really stupid to sign up for a relationship where the other partner can dictate your life to an extent of "you cant be friends with him".

But if she wants to practice her sexual free will, she can do that as much as she wants. She just can't have boyfriend. In fact, it's an exchange. If she shouldn't "give up her free will" as you put it, then she shouldn't have a boyfriend. Or fiance. Or husband. Or any significant other, period. If you can't take limiting your sexual free will to only one person, then just keep the fuck away from the monogamous types and find someone more your speed.

or, you know, she could have a boyfriend who udnerstands her free sexual approach and have a exclusive relationship in other ways than just sex?

The considerably low threshold is not anyone else's fault, no. But being the trigger sure the hell is. And you take a risk by doing such an action as the OP when you have no idea how low someone's threshold is. But hey, I'm sure the sex is worth it.

no its not. thats like saying im at fault because some Islamist has a low trigger point and saw my post and decided to bomb my city for it.

But she deserves to catch something nasty because she's an adulterous slut. I believe all cheaters deserve to catch something nasty or get some kind of punishment for what they've done.

I completely disagree, and we probably shoulnt o into arguing what is a slut as you already said you think anyone who cheats is a slup, so your definition is skewed anyway. if you think all cheaters should get a physical punishment then i would question your sanity. But you have a right to your opinion just like i have mine.

You can if this person is inside the train with someone who has made it known one way or the other to tell you not to let the guy outside in this train. Because of fear or whatever. If they ignore this individual and let crazy guy in and then he waltzes over and kills them... Or more dramatically, if one can clearly see this person outside the train has a goddamn weapon but proceed to let them in anyway. Yeah, you can blame the door opener.

I disagree. i think the crazy person is the only one responsible for his crazyness.

A bit. For the former, the only reason you can hold a person as your own is because the person allows you to. And the person is holding you as their own in turn. The latter sounds like it could easily be the former but it's all about context. The latter's context is that they do this thing without regards to anyone else. In this case, boyfriend. At least for the former, no one's really losing out.

Not in all cases. context does matter. however whether with concession or not, holding someone as your property is extremely selfish.

And cheating. The lying mostly defines the cheating as much as breaking the terms of the commitment. If there was no breaking the terms, there would be no lying. No deceit. The hiding of the act is what can really make cheating painful, I think. Because it says it me, you knew this wouldn't be accepted so you're hiding it so you don't have to face up to your bullshit.

What makes sex cheating? lieing. if she did not lie, but told the boyfriend she is going to have sex with the OP, then the relationship woudl have been over there and then, and no cheating would have occured. Therefore lieing is the "crime" in this case, cheating is merely a symptom. Hiding is what makes cheating - cheating. its the defining characteristic. Also many people are hiding it out of fear from thier other part when in reality many would agree in retrospect that they wouldn't have been much angry if the partner had not kept it a secret. granted, there are all kinds of people around, thats what makes humans interesting after all.

As I mention earlier up there, I'm not trying to make her less guilty. I'm trying to make the OP equally as guilty. But I don't hate the OP. I just don't have any respect for him as a human being right now. They are both terrible people and each needs some emotional suffering as a consequence.

and this is where we start fisting, figuratively speaking of course.

Well this seems like we got two very different beliefs at odds, but at least its not the case of "he must be murdered because thats how somone told me it should be" here. we will have to agree to disagree in the end i guess.
Now, lets attack some other people

As for your loaded questions, let me match them with objective questions:
a: Who is betraying the boyfriend?
b: Who will have to lie to cover their tracks?
c: Who is being unfaithful?

If the second guy doesn't know about the girl's boyfriend, then yes, the girl is the only answer to these questions. This is something that we both agree on. In this case, ignorance puts all the fault on the cheater.

But once the second guy is aware that he is participating in her affair and chooses to sleep with her anyway, he is included in the answers of A and B. With the attained knowledge that the man is partaking in an affair, he betrays the boyfriend and lies as well. Whether or not he cares is up to him.

a. The female in question.
b. The female in question. while this situation may bring the OP lieing too because they work at the same place, generally in a cheating situation the chetee does not even know who the boyfriend is.
c. The female in question.

knowledge changes nothing. there is no obligation from the person to change his actions based on the relationship status of the woman.

The moment you found out that one of her friendly benefits has a name and a face you are part of the whole shebang.

I see what you did there.



Capcha: beg the question.
it always knows what to say....

 

[Bocaj2000]

snip

Based on your own answers, it is obvious that you have too much bias for me to take you seriously.

 

[Dark_Reaction]

So, I'm currently seeing this girl quite often. Friends with benefits thing. Its amazing, dont get me wrong. The only problem though is that she has a boyfriend. To make it better, we are all coworkers. Luckily he doesn't know, but has suspicion. I know she is in the wrong for doing it, but whats bugging me is " how wrong am I in comparison"? At the moment all I can think of is I, m not the one cheating, she is, hes a real d-bag to her anyway, and me always coming to that conclusion is whats bothering me. Whos more wrong?

You're knowingly banging someone who is in a relationship.
You're a douchebag.

Regardless of how much of a dick the other guy might be, or whether or not what the girl is doing is wrong, YOU are knowingly banging someone who is still dating someone else.
Not only are you a douchebag for doing so, but you're also kind of a dumbass, considering SHE'S STILL DATING THE OTHER GUY.

Yes, and she said she isnt going to be with him for long. She hates how he treats her, but is afraid to say anything.

If she's afraid, be a man and back her up - except you probably aren't a man, considering you're doing some douchey stuff like knowingly banging a co-worker's girlfriend behind his back.
You're also a dumbass, so you probably believe her when she says she won't be with him for long, which is very likely utter BS.
You're getting played son, just like her boyfriend is.
Whats REALLY sad is, you're dumb enough to want to be with someone who YOU KNOW is willing to cheat on their partner rather than get out of a relationship (they claim) they don't want to be in (yet continue to remain in).

Its been going on before they ever got together and before i worked there, it just never kind of stopped. If irs any consolation, hes cheated before on someone else.

... which changes nothing - if anything, it makes you MORE of a douchebag, since its clear this isn't headed towards any sort of serious relationship: you just like the easy, convenient pussy, and have tried to rationalize your rather scumbag-ish actions to yourself.

Fact is, she may be the one who is 'cheating', but you're basically an approving (or, at the very least, accepting) accomplice to the whole situation - and that makes you a douchebag.

This ain't the 14th century - if she wants to be with you, all she has to do is say so and (if you're a man and this relationship means more to you than some easy pussy every once in awhile) you'll back her up.
That's the end of the discussion as far as I'm concerned: if she wants to be with you, she leaves him, done. If not, she doesn't really want to be with you, she's just banging you because she's... well, kind of a skeezer.

Just my humble opinion, anyway.

Well, ive come to the conclusion that I am just as much, only cuz now it looks like im hooking up with another coworker. And dont worry, shes single. Appearenty everyone here does. But now i wont let it bother me. More snu snu I guess

Oh, well, congratulations - you made sure the skeezer you're banging doesn't have a boyfriend this time!
*golf clap*
... Oh, and since it came up, you're probably going to wind up with the clap (or something worse, like the herp) if you keep hooking up with random skanks from your work. Make sure you've got a good doctor to go to that you aren't iffy about showing your STD-mangled junk to.

And please, for your own sake, stop justifying your actions/views based on the actions/views of other people.
"Is it wrong for me to bang this girl that's in a relationship? Her boyfriends a dick, so I think its okay" and "Is it okay to bang random skanks at my work? Everyone else does it, so I think its okay" are rather glaring examples - to my mind at least - of someone who doesn't really have a strong handle on their own moral viewpoints and thus bases their viewpoints upon those of their peers.
If you find that one of your coworkers constantly robs the others, will you join in if your other coworkers are mean to you? If your friends at work all start smoking crack, will you do that too?
Whether or not the one cheated upon is a dick, or whether the cheater intends to maintain the relationship long term, or whether the friends w/ benefits or the actual relationship started first - its all irrelevant.
All that matters is the question: Is it okay to cheat?
If yes, then its no prob. If no, then what you're doing isn't okay (whether you're the cheater or the one they cheated with is irrelevant if both parties are aware cheating is going on - one chose to cheat on their partner, the other chose to knowingly engage the cheater).

 

[Smooth Operator]

You are all at fault, but most of all you are all stupid.
- the lady for playing on multiple sides knowing full well what kind of shitstorm this will brew
- you OP for aiding her in this endeavour
- the boyfriend for mistreating her, but more so not admitting the clock is way past happy fun times

And you people are coworkers... this shit will go sky high very soon and the only thing you need to know at this point is what distance to stand at.

 

[fletch_talon]

It doesn't matter who's more wrong.

At the end of the day you're responsible for your actions. If your concerned about doing the right thing you'll tell this girl to make her choice or miss out.
This isn't just to benefit the other bloke or your conscience either. If she thinks its okay to have multiples guys on the go, and is hesitant to leave the guy she's with to be with you, then she isn't going to be a very trustworthy or loyal partner is she?

 

[Pandaman1911]

You're just as much at fault as she is.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hold anything against you. Our baser instincts are fun to fulfill. But if we're going from a purely moral standpoint, you've got zero high ground here.

 

[Legion]

It doesn't matter who's more wrong.

At the end of the day you're responsible for your actions. If your concerned about doing the right thing you'll tell this girl to make her choice or miss out.
This isn't just to benefit the other bloke or your conscience either. If she thinks its okay to have multiples guys on the go, and is hesitant to leave the guy she's with to be with you, then she isn't going to be a very trustworthy or loyal partner is she?

I don't think the OP cares about how good a partner she is, he is wanting sex and she is happy to have it with him. The OP makes no mention of him wanting more than that. His question is about how right or wrong it is to sleep with another persons partner without their knowledge.

Like you said, he is responsible for his own actions, so he can't claim to not be at fault when he is sleeping with a co-worker who he knows is in a relationship already.

 

[Dead_Man]

If you didn't know she had a boyfriend at first, then no. Now that you know, I'd say that your just as much in the fault as she it.