Am I missing something here? (Shadow of the Colossus Contrarian Thread)

[zelda2fanboy]

Just picked up the Ico / Shadow of the Colossus Collection. I was really excited to see many individuals' favorite game ever and Exhibit A in the Video Games As Art debate. Nothing but positive attitude coming from me and I was ready to let this great game work its magic on me. And... eh. I mean it's good. I will finish it. I enjoy playing it. You just do the same thing over and over. Spooky voice gives vague clue and you follow the directional thingy on your sword. You traverse a fairly wide expanse until you get to a point where a cutscene takes over, which means you've gone the right direction. Then you try to figure out what you have to do to trigger the animation on the colossus that will let you climb it (and if you don't, the voice will tell you what to do). Then the music swells up and the colossus tries to shake you off. So you move until it starts shaking, wait, move some more. If your stamina is low, find a stable surface and wait until it fills up. Then find the weak point and stab it until it goes away. Rinse and repeat, 16 times.

I'm only six colossi in, but feel free to spoil anything, since I've already looked up the plot of the game already and I find the concept of spoilers ridiculous. I don't like to be Mr. Negativity honestly. Compare it to just about any 3D Zelda game. There's so much more to do in a Zelda game and it's so much more stimulating. I like the vibe and atmosphere of Shadow, but if I'm in the wrong mood, it really comes off as boring and frustrating (having to climb all the way back up when you fall off, the SLOW swimming sections). The only other thing to do is to collect fruit (which seems worthless since I've never come close to dying yet) and shooting lizards (slightly more useful, but not essential). I wouldn't have even known about that element of the game if it weren't for Yahtzee's review of it and checking the instruction book. I could have gone the whole game and never noticed the things. Also, I've only played it for 2.5 hours and I'm already 37% done with the entire game. Is it really that good? Does it get amazingly better? Am I a complete dumbass who can't recognize brilliance?

 

[The Pinray]

How's about it's just not your thing? Just because a lot of people like it doesn't mean you have to. I despise Zelda games. That doesn't make me an outcast. It makes me someone that doesn't like Zelda. That's it. I'm not "missing" anything. It just doesn't click with me. As Shadow doesn't click with you.

If everyone liked the same things this world would be a boring place.

 

[Orwellian37]

Honestly, you have made some good points, but there is a flaw in your argument. Everything you've mentioned focuses on the gameplay itself. Shadow is, for all intents and purposes, an old game. It's technology is a generation old. It has its cracks. But you are completely ignoring the story.

Think about the story. Look at Wander before and after he's killed a Colossus. Consider his love, Mono. Think about what he's doing for her and how it's affecting him. And most importantly, FINISH THE GAME. You've got ten Colossi to go. You will really know how you feel when it's all said and done.

 

[shrekfan246]

To be fair, the game was originally released in 2005. But the actual experience of the game was never really about the gameplay. It is still fairly unique gameplay comparatively, but it is repetitive when you boil it down to its core. There are no random encounters, there are no towns to visit, there are no side quests.

The experience of the game to be had is in experiencing the tale. You are this young man who will do anything to save his love, even if it means conquering these massive behemoths and corrupting his own body. There is almost nothing in the way of exposition, and the core gameplay does not really change from "Climb the colossus, find its weak spot, attack, and repeat". The challenge comes from the different ways you to need to actually tackle the colossi to perform that formula.

But it's not for everybody. As with any game that could be recommended to people to show how "Games are art" (or even normal games) there are just people who will not be able to get into it. I would say that if you start comparing it to other games, you will probably disappoint yourself. Especially a series like Zelda. The Legend of Zelda has always had a tightly knit narrative and while I certainly don't consider it to be an RPG series it has much in way of RPG elements, which Shadow of the Colossus has practically none of.

The only advice I can really give is to not dwell too much on the gameplay itself. After all, when it comes down to it most games have extremely repetitive gameplay when you just take the core elements. Any first- or third-person shooter ever made has very repetitive gameplay. Even The Legend of Zelda has repetitive gameplay; "Am I going to get the boomerang or hookshot first this time?" Shadow of the Colossus' gameplay is pretty bare-bones, it's true; But that's because it's so much more than just the gameplay.

And if the repetitive gameplay bothers you too much, well, then it's just not the game for you. It happens.

 

[the spud]

Just wait till the ending. I know you already spoiled it for yourself, but it may be my favorite ending of all time.

Also, I think that SotC is one of those games that is more than the some of its parts.

 

[Smeggs]

It's different for those of us who played them when they originally came out. They were good looking and the stories were subtle but deep if you could infer and understand things. It's about the story, not just the gameplay.

It's not the goal in sight, but the journey to reach that goal. One of the reasons a lot of people like Minecraft, while others are left scratching their heads asking, "Why would you play something that looks worse than N64 graphics?"

Everything is about pretty ass graphics these days, can't say as many games have deep stories like before...

Oh, also the games is supposed to be more...realistic I suppose is the word I'm looking for. You're not going to go out and find random floating collectables in the world. The collossi all seem realistic enough like they're part of the world, and Wander's physical abilities are that of an (albeit quite fit) human being. You have to admit it makes you feel like somewhat of a badass after crawling your way to a giant's face and then stabbing it to death.

 

[burningdragoon]

My comments, in list form:

1) Maybe it's just not your thing. That's okay.

2) The fact that you you don't like how the 'only other thing to do' is find fruit and lizards, seems to confirm point 1.

3) Now, I don't have a problem with your 'summary' of the gameplay, but it is pretty easy to do that to every game ever.

4) Yes, the swimming colossus is annoying.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

Well, if I can recall, you need to develop different strategies for the stronger colossi.

The fish colossus, you need to take out the electric spikes on it's back to proceed up the body. The colossus in the geyser field, you must get it underneath the geyser and strike it so it will fall to the ground.

Play the game some more, you might find it getting better as you play, I know I did.

I found the game getting better at the stone pillar wielding Colossus. But whatever, it just might not be your cup of tea.

 

[Kyogissun]

Just picked up the Ico / Shadow of the Colossus Collection. I was really excited to see many individuals' favorite game ever and Exhibit A in the Video Games As Art debate. Nothing but positive attitude coming from me and I was ready to let this great game work its magic on me. And... eh. I mean it's good. I will finish it. I enjoy playing it. You just do the same thing over and over. Spooky voice gives vague clue and you follow the directional thingy on your sword. You traverse a fairly wide expanse until you get to a point where a cutscene takes over, which means you've gone the right direction. Then you try to figure out what you have to do to trigger the animation on the colossus that will let you climb it (and if you don't, the voice will tell you what to do). Then the music swells up and the colossus tries to shake you off. So you move until it starts shaking, wait, move some more. If your stamina is low, find a stable surface and wait until it fills up. Then find the weak point and stab it until it goes away. Rinse and repeat, 16 times.

I'm only six colossi in, but feel free to spoil anything, since I've already looked up the plot of the game already and I find the concept of spoilers ridiculous. I don't like to be Mr. Negativity honestly. Compare it to just about any 3D Zelda game. There's so much more to do in a Zelda game and it's so much more stimulating. I like the vibe and atmosphere of Shadow, but if I'm in the wrong mood, it really comes off as boring and frustrating (having to climb all the way back up when you fall off, the SLOW swimming sections). The only other thing to do is to collect fruit (which seems worthless since I've never come close to dying yet) and shooting lizards (slightly more useful, but not essential). I wouldn't have even known about that element of the game if it weren't for Yahtzee's review of it and checking the instruction book. I could have gone the whole game and never noticed the things. Also, I've only played it for 2.5 hours and I'm already 37% done with the entire game. Is it really that good? Does it get amazingly better? Am I a complete dumbass who can't recognize brilliance?

Dude, FINISH THE GAME

SERIOUSLY, stop browsing here and FUCKING FINISH IT.

You will not regret it. Colossi fights continue to get more and more enjoyable as the game progresses and there are some really fun puzzles in certain areas.

Also, just take some time to sort of sit back and take a look around the world, it's really something to behold man.

BUT SERIOUSLY, FINISH THE GAME, you WON'T regret it.

 

[LilRock1976]

I compare this game to a musician playing an acoustic guitar in a small club. What most AAA titles are like ( including the PS2/XBOX era ) is a 6 man band backed up by a 50 piece orchestra in a large amphitheater. Nothing wrong either way it's just the developers went with the minimalist route.
This is also the only game that I have played that what you have to do to advance the narrative felt wrong. You invade these creatures home land while they are minding their own business and you destroy them for your own selfish reason.
I found this game very beautiful and profoundly moving, but enjoyment is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[StriderShinryu]

It sort of sounds like you're missing the point of the praise the game receives in a couple of ways. First, you're coming into it simply because of all of the hype and you've even said that you've spoiled the plot for yourself. Most of the gamers who praise the game experienced it without that aura of "zomg, best game ever!" and didn't really know the story (never mind the various ways it's since been interpreted). Second, you're trying to define it as a game a la Zelda instead of looking at it as an experience (or, at least, as it's own unique game).

Not to compare SotC to the Mona Lisa, but this is a lot like going to see the Mona Lisa for the first time after being told for your entire life that it's a masterpiece beyond all other masterpieces. Despite how open you claim to be to the experience of seeing it, it's going to be a painting of a lady hanging on a wall and there's really no way to not have the moment dampened by reality. That's not to say that it's any less special but there's no way to not be disappointed when you walk into the room expecting to be struck down by god himself.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Honestly, you have made some good points, but there is a flaw in your argument. Everything you've mentioned focuses on the gameplay itself. Shadow is, for all intents and purposes, an old game. It's technology is a generation old. It has its cracks. But you are completely ignoring the story.

Think about the story. Look at Wander before and after he's killed a Colossus. Consider his love, Mono. Think about what he's doing for her and how it's affecting him. And most importantly, FINISH THE GAME. You've got ten Colossi to go. You will really know how you feel when it's all said and done.

Oh okay, I'm judging a video game on the gameplay. Boy is my face red. Yes, I know. I read the entire story in advance. I get it, but even that is not that well told so far. Every single pre/post boss scene is him waking up, shadowy people, a statue collapsing, and disembodied voice hint. I can't help but think of the Red Letter Media Episode 1 characterization test. Without describing their costume, their role / profession, or what they look like, describe the "characters" in Shadow of the Colossus. They have no personality at all and it makes it fairly difficult to care about anybody within the context of a story. Also, I explicitly said I was going to finish the game.

Everything is about pretty ass graphics these days, can't say as many games have deep stories like before...

Honestly, the graphics still hold up. The camera, not so much. The only really fair comparison for this type of adventure game seems like it would be Ocarina of Time. That had way more involving gameplay, a richer story, and it came out almost ten years beforehand. Or maybe I should compare it to Okami which also came out for the PS2. My complaints aren't about the age of the game. That is not a factor.

Dude, FINISH THE GAME

You will not regret it. Colossi fights continue to get more and more enjoyable as the game progresses and there are some really fun puzzles in certain areas.

Also, just take some time to sort of sit back and take a look around the world, it's really something to behold man.

Why do people assume I won't finish the game? I said I would right there in the first post. I also already know the big twist ending and there is nothing I've seen in the game to make me care about it. The world is pretty and atmospheric and all that stuff, but there is nothing in it. Just lizards and fruit. It takes away a lot of the incentive to look around. I'm at 6 out of 16 though. Surely I would have been impressed by something by now. Again, it's not bad, I'm just not impressed with this rare gem that's been lorded over me for almost a decade.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

It sort of sounds like you're missing the point of the praise the game receives in a couple of ways. First, you're coming into it simply because of all of the hype and you've even said that you've spoiled the plot for yourself. Most of the gamers who praise the game experienced it without that aura of "zomg, best game ever!" and didn't really know the story (never mind the various ways it's since been interpreted). Second, you're trying to define it as a game a la Zelda instead of looking at it as an experience (or, at least, as it's own unique game).

Not to compare SotC to the Mona Lisa, but this is a lot like going to see the Mona Lisa for the first time after being told for your entire life that it's a masterpiece beyond all other masterpieces. Despite how open you claim to be to the experience of seeing it, it's going to be a painting of a lady hanging on a wall and there's really no way to not have the moment dampened by reality. That's not to say that it's any less special but there's no way to not be disappointed when you walk into the room expecting to be struck down by god himself.

Yeah, but you just do the same thing over and over. There are no puzzles really. No point in exploring. Just climb the thing and poke it. The Mona Lisa is inherently striking. It has a visceral and immediate impact and that's the reason it is famous. Shadow of the Colossus does not seem to have this effect. Believe me, my expectations are not that unreasonable. I already like video games in the first place. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm more taken by Ico than this one. My mind is open.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

SotC is kinda difficult to peg. My first playthrough of it I was enamored with it, but since then my opinion has pretty steadily declined. I mean, its got a pretty world and good music, but you are right in that it is, frankly, a rather boring game, which is one of the cardinal sins of bad game design in my book. Also, in addition, its a game that goes out of its way to frustrate you when the gameplay does start. Its got a great sense of scope though, which is probably why it blew me away the first time. Nothing quite gets you like the first time you see a Colossus. Except that, you know, the same effect has been done a million times since, and in better ways too.

I dunno, the entire experience is a little past its expiration date. Good for a history lesson or just for the street cred of being able to say you've played it, but the last 6 years have really shamed it technologically.

I will say though, you shouldn't have spoiled the ending for yourself. The actual content of the plot is kind of irrelevant, its the actual experience that is somewhat shocking and...ugh..."thought-provoking".

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Honestly, you have made some good points, but there is a flaw in your argument. Everything you've mentioned focuses on the gameplay itself. Shadow is, for all intents and purposes, an old game. It's technology is a generation old. It has its cracks. But you are completely ignoring the story.

Think about the story. Look at Wander before and after he's killed a Colossus. Consider his love, Mono. Think about what he's doing for her and how it's affecting him. And most importantly, FINISH THE GAME. You've got ten Colossi to go. You will really know how you feel when it's all said and done.

Oh okay, I'm judging a video game on the gameplay. Boy is my face red. Yes, I know. I read the entire story in advance. I get it, but even that is not that well told so far. Every single pre/post boss scene is him waking up, shadowy people, a statue collapsing, and disembodied voice hint. I can't help but think of the Red Letter Media Episode 1 characterization test. Without describing their costume, their role / profession, or what they look like, describe the "characters" in Shadow of the Colossus. They have no personality at all and it makes it fairly difficult to care about anybody within the context of a story. Also, I explicitly said I was going to finish the game.

Everything is about pretty ass graphics these days, can't say as many games have deep stories like before...

Honestly, the graphics still hold up. The camera, not so much. The only really fair comparison for this type of adventure game seems like it would be Ocarina of Time. That had way more involving gameplay, a richer story, and it came out almost ten years beforehand. Or maybe I should compare it to Okami which also came out for the PS2. My complaints aren't about the age of the game. That is not a factor.

Dude, FINISH THE GAME

You will not regret it. Colossi fights continue to get more and more enjoyable as the game progresses and there are some really fun puzzles in certain areas.

Also, just take some time to sort of sit back and take a look around the world, it's really something to behold man.

Why do people assume I won't finish the game? I said I would right there in the first post. I also already know the big twist ending and there is nothing I've seen in the game to make me care about it. The world is pretty and atmospheric and all that stuff, but there is nothing in it. Just lizards and fruit. It takes away a lot of the incentive to look around. I'm at 6 out of 16 though. Surely I would have been impressed by something by now. Again, it's not bad, I'm just not impressed with this rare gem that's been lorded over me for almost a decade.

I was just about to say something to this effect. I've got an original PS2 copy of the game sitting right next to me, which I only haven't played because I don't really have time for big single-player games these days (my gaming tends to be 2-4 hours a week split up over multiple small sessions, which makes online multiplayer a better fit for me than anything else), but if what you're describing is how the game actually plays, and what the other people are claiming is why everyone loves it, I can already tell that my $8 probably would have been better spent on one of the other games they had for sale at that record store. If a game doesn't stand up on its gameplay, it is a bad game. People have been telling me for years now that SotC stands up both as a good game and as good art, and that more than that, it becomes art through what it does with its gameplay -- making it an experience that could only exist in videogames. What you're describing is a boss rush with unnecessarily empty open world sections between bosses, and a story that would have been better told as a movie. I sincerely hope it's not really like that, because otherwise my last great hope of being convinced that games can function both as good games and as good art has been crushed.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Shouldn't you play ICO first?

That's what I'm doing, being as I'm a noob for these old, dated PS2 games. That being said, I think a great video to watch is Adam Sessler's Soapbox about these games: Revisiting the Classics.

I grabbed the ICO & Shadow of the Colossus Collection today, and I've never played either one of the games(not for lack of trying, mind you. Never could get the game while I had a PS2). The only thing I really know is that the only thing that relates the two games is that they both take place within the same universe, but are two entirely separate games. Kind of like Half-Life and Portal, for example. From what I heard, Nier takes place within their universe as well, but I've never played Nier, either. I've been playing Shadow first, because I don't think it really matters which one goes first. :x Unless ICO is a prequel to Shadow, which I'm not quite aware of.

I'm having great fun playing SotC. The only thing I wish I could do is move the camera under the water and be able to see the area that I'm swimming over. Which I can kind of do by holding R1 while I swim, but still not very well. I will agree, though. I wish something would happen. Aside from fighting the colossi, nothing really happens. I get attacked by some black steam pouring out of the slain colossi, wake up in the shrine, and set out toward the next one. Maybe I'll try climbing to the top of the shrine and see how far I get. Then jump off for lulz.

 

[Shadrouge]

Yeah, but you just do the same thing over and over. There are no puzzles really. No point in exploring. Just climb the thing and poke it. The Mona Lisa is inherently striking. It has a visceral and immediate impact and that's the reason it is famous. Shadow of the Colossus does not seem to have this effect. Believe me, my expectations are not that unreasonable. I already like video games in the first place. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm more taken by Ico than this one. My mind is open.

1. No point to exploring
2. Climb + Poke
3. Mona Lisa is inherently striking, this game isn't

People have already said this, but it really does just come down to personal values. You seem to like games that reward you for exploring their land, but not everybody else does and fans of SotC would likely argue it would cheapen/clutter the experience.

SotC was a fun game at the time of release mainly because it did something largely not popular in video games, largely the minimalist approach, storytelling method, and the actual approach boss fights.

Once again: personal values. What you've simplified to "Climb + Poke" others consider to be overcoming physically titantic odds, a more personal connection to the hero story instead of very disconnected "defeating" of enemies in other games, but with a tragic twist added onto it.

The story of SotC is an atypical one and it's told atypically, which a lot of people at the time liked. They liked not being told anything, having to infer everything and interpret the ending how they will. The fairly empty land felt peaceful to a lot of players, emphasizing the "Holy Land" interpretation, instead of distracting with side-quests, as they would work in another game but not this one, etc...

The kind of gameplay you enjoy is not the same kind that everyone else will enjoy.

As for the Mona Lisa being "visually striking," that's really all down to opinion still... I've heard people say they saw it and "It's really just a painting of a woman on a wall. Sure it was probably good at the time, but these days it's not that impressive." You can't claim "art" as objectively anything.