Am I the only one who - no, scratch that: The difference between story and storytelling

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VanityGirl

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Some games need a strong story, other games (fighters, Dynasty Warriors and some mindless shooters) don't really need one.

I like a good story in a long game, like Final Fantasy.
 

Colonel Alzheimer's

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Jan 3, 2010
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I think storytelling in games specifically is way more important than the actual story. In books, I find the story more important, and in movies... I guess it's about equal.
I did indeed recognize the difference between story and storytelling, and I think that many games have great story telling, but don't have a great story.
 

mandrilltiger

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The Left 4 Dead series are a great example of an okay story told in a great way.

I also think that Fallout 3 allowing you to explore and discover the story is one of the best ways to tell a story.
 

Negatempest

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For me the Story of Halo Reach was actually really good. The whole plot of an elite group of soldiers not knowing that their time is limited and will fail to protect the planet they are so fond of.
The storytelling however, is pretty bad. Characters are not brought out enough in detail. Seemingly noble deaths are cliche and/or pointless considering the situation. (WTF was Kat doing not keeping her shield up?) Campaign too short to give us a reason to like the characters. No family connections, no brotherly/sisterly love (Like what we see with the cloned Storm Troopers) of any kind. For people who came from the same test tube, they treat each other like acquaintances than companions or family.
 

Valiance

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Storytelling and presentation are what the people are talking about when they say "story."

At least I hope so, because if they aren't, they're just idiots.

Most sci-fi shooters can be boiled down to "killing aliens." However, the presentation and storytelling is what makes the games different. For example, Prey, Half-Life, Gears of War, Halo, and Duke Nukem 3D are all basically about killing aliens, but the stories in each one can be considered original because of how they are told and the specific details of the settings. An alien ship might look different in Duke 3D than it does in Prey, and that would be important to the story as to how the aliens are, how the humans are, what the world is like at the time of invasion, and other such things.

Anyway, all I mean is that the actual story or plot of a game can be derivative, but the way it's done can be compelling if the writing and as you say, storytelling is good.
 

repeating integers

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Sorry for getting back to you all late, schooldays are a total *****. Glad to see this took off while I was asleep.

It seems we've pretty much got a unanimous agreement - everyone who believes they are seperate entities thinks the telling is better than the story itself. If I'm honest, I can't say I'm surprised. I can't believe I forgot to mention Avatar, because - as many of you were saying - it's a textbook example of my point. The story is about as clichéd as you can get, but it was told in such a very compelling way you couldn't help but sit up and take notice.

Grey_Focks said:
Funny you should bring this up. I was actually just talking about the videogame storytelling the other day, and Halo was one of the examples I brought up, along with BioShock, Metal Gear, Mass Effect, and Final Fantasy.

Some strive to tell great stories, but in a pretty standard "just keep throwing cutscenes at you till you get it" way, and others tell decent stories in great ways, with the use of atmosphere, character chatter, music, and art style. But yea, storytelling > story, by a mile.
I'm glad you mentioned Mass Effect, because it's a very interesting game when it comes to storytelling. Or moreover, a difficult one.

Mass Effect has a good story. Certainly a lot better and less clichéd than most of the competition. But lots of this story is revealed through conversations with NPCs, and I honestly can't figure out whether this is a good method of storytelling in a game or not.

Going back to my previous example: Cutscenes in the Halo series are typically short and sweet, and tell you just as much info as you need in a short dialogue. By contrast, Mass Effect allows you to explore information that you don't need to know, but is integral to the universe itself. This is taken to an even further extreme with the Codex - it's basically the wiki plot summary I talked about, the story of an entire original universe with no real storytelling at all. By all rights I should find it boring as hell... yet I adore it. Indeed, finding out new codex information was one of my favourite parts of Mass Effect when I first played, alongside bouncing the Mako off mountaintops. Of the (admittedly few) games I've played, Mass Effect is unique in this respect. Maybe I'm just enough of a nerd to find essays interesting :p.

VanityGirl said:
Some games need a strong story, other games (fighters, Dynasty Warriors and some mindless shooters) don't really need one.

I like a good story in a long game, like Final Fantasy.
Totally and completely offtopic, but I love your avatar.
 

lex.nero

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I've always noted the recognised the story and storytelling seperately, and call me an idealist but i believe they need to be equally as good as one another in order for a game to be considered great, most commendable example in my opinion is Bioware's ME1, ME2 and Dragon Age.
 

NickCaligo42

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Yes. A good story and good storytelling are two different things. One is the message, what's being said, the characters, the plot, the themes. One is the execution, the dialogue, the pacing.

George Lucas comes up with good stories, but he himself is a crappy storyteller, unable to craft dialogue to save his life and far too concerned with selling toys to show us action that actually matters as opposed to wasting our time with extended commercials for his merch. Choices in execution make it unclear as to who the real main character is in some of his works, particularly The Phantom Menace, which, if you follow the formulae in the Hero with a Thousand Faces, actually turns out to be Jar-Jar Binks rather than Anakin Skywalker--Anakin being the actual hero and getting considerably more time with the reader if you follow the books instead.

Mass Effect is a good story poorly told as well. 90% of the dialogue Shepard has is just questions, making her a very flat, one-dimensional character; a mere puppet for eliciting exposition rather than a hero facing any kind of struggle or expressing any desires. It's interesting because of the novelty of making choices in the narrative, but there's very little sense of actual characterization on Shepard's part. She comes off as a walking stereotype rather than having actual feelings. I can say this of practically all of Bioware's player characters. Their one strength is when they present players with dilemmas between the other characters' interests--which tend to be one-note and very predictable when it comes to dealing with them in gameplay, though they make up with it with a few interesting turns outside of gameplay. Miranda Lawson's insecurity in spite of her genetic perfection is a great character trait, which I wish had been explored more. Mordin Solus actually turns out to have a broad variety of interests. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And of course, occasionally outlier characters like HK-47 and Minsc show up who just steal the whole damn show because they're so entertaining. All Bioware's games have an underlying theme of authority and what's best done with it, but they seem to skirt around it a lot.

Final Fantasy 13 is a good story told poorly in COMPLETELY different ways. The themes are there. The characters are POTENTIALLY sympathetic and POTENTIALLY have interesting struggles. The setting is intriguing. However, every cutscene is a total waste of space on the disc, every line of dialogue is pointless gibberish, and the game seems to be TRYING to withhold any detail on what's going on or what the world is like. When it does get to expositing it tries very hard not to involve the player in the interesting parts of the story, incorporating them as flashbacks, which makes them difficult to care about. It's not so much telling its story as wasting the player's time while going "honest, guys--we'll tell the story soon." It also changes its mind a lot on what tone it's trying to set, failing to maintain gravity. Its twists are predictable, and the lead characters are clumsily shoehorned together because the developers couldn't find a way to introduce them smoothly or gradually.

Likewise I've seen weak or mediocre stories told well...

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves really has nothing to say, but its dialogue and fleshing out of the relationships between characters are commendable, its use of historical content creates an immediate connection with players, and it knows how to execute its big twists frighteningly well, turning predictable re-uses of tropes from the first game on their heads and actually managing to surprise me. And of course we've all heard the reviewers gush about the amazing scripted events.

Call of Duty has been praised to no end for its storytelling, but as anybody should know it's Michael Bay-style military fiction ultimately signifying nothing. Russian terrorists? Really guys? Those people who've expressed no interest in fighting the United States for how long now? You're about 15-20 years too late. Tough for me to see a point in exploring that relationship. Yet, like Uncharted, recent games in the series have managed to stand out with scripted events, and you have to give its makers credit for not being afraid to pull their punches with certain events. For many, the sight of America being invaded or terrorists tearing through an airport was more than enough shock to give it some significance. They also have the notable distinction of giving the British a strong role, recognizing there's countries other than the United States out there who are worth mentioning. On an artistic level it's junk food, but on a technical level it knows how to make deliver a punch.


I would say good storytelling is more important. A message that's not executed well is as tiresome as not having a point at all or as annoying as being beaten over the head with it, and if I can't have both I want to at least be entertained. But I'd PREFER both, and have ignored games (like Call of Duty, as a matter of fact--my opinion on it here is hearsay) for not having anything for me to grab onto.
 

veloper

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Sounds to me like you're talking about plot and writing.

The plot in most games is trivial and boils down to me winning. I'm fine by that.
I suppose it's sometimes nice to have a clue about why you're doing X or Y, but just a premise can be more than enough.

All I care about is the dialogues and voice-overs not being too embarrasingly bad.
Actually I can enjoy bad VOs too, if they are hilariously bad. For example, Morrigan in Dragon Age was worse than Bolo Santosi in Just Cause 2, because that sort of comedy doesn't hurt a game like JC2, while it does detract from DA.

So story wise all that is needed is just convincing lines for games with a serious atmosphere and nothing too bland for less serious stuff. The challenges in the game should keep the player hooked.