Am i the only person that understands MGS's story?

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MMETEORAGA1994

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The whole appeal to me of the MGS story is all the branching paths and insane crap that you need to take into account when talking about it. It really is like a real life political cluster-fuck where you have no idea who to trust and who's your enemy. It's not the strongest story out there but it is definitely the most expansive, and I'd say I have a fairly good understanding of it.
 

demoman_chaos

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May 25, 2009
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I get it, it isn't complicated. It helps to know your military stuff though.

Then again, I did play through the games multiple times (in MGS3, I had 1 file with 16 or so completions) so I had more chacnes to figure out what the hell was going on.
 

RDubayoo

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The plot is nearly indecipherable in part because the characters' motivations often make little to no sense. It may be a translation thing, or maybe some aspect of Japanese culture isn't carrying over properly, or maybe Hideo Kojima is just insane. But seriously, there's only one villain in the series I liked or found believable, and that would be (lightning hands aside) Colonel Volgin. He wanted a super weapon to use against the United States, and he also liked money. Okay, I understand that. Everyone else, though? Well...

(Spoilers ahead, though if you've read this far you should know that already.)

Liquid Snake: Wanted to recreate Outer Heaven as a "home" for soldiers or something? Maybe? Screw it, I dunno.

Solidus: I think he wanted to stop the Patriots? Maybe? I don't even remember. But okay, it's not as nonsensical as it could have been.

The Boss: She became a bad guy and fake-betrayed her country because... she's a soldier and that's what she does? Okay, her mission was to retrieve the Philosophers' Legacy, which she succeeded in doing, but WHY she would allow herself to be used and exploited in such a horrific way, only to go down in history as a traitor, all for the sake of people who don't give two craps about her, is just beyond me. She also fights Snake because apparently she wants him to kill her, but he better do a good job or she'll kill him first. That's perfectly reasonable, right?

The Cobra Unit: THEY'RE ALL INSANE. No, really. The Sorrow, for instance, tries to help you one moment, then tries to kill you another. Why? WHY!?

Big Boss: Dude comes back to life, and instead of setting up shop again, he meets Snake to exposition at him. And he knows that coming into contact with Snake will kill him, which is why he does it anyway. WHYYYY

The Patriots: Wanted to control the world through the manipulation of data and a perpetual cycle of warfare. Well, okay. Why, then, did they build the ridiculously expensive Arsenal Gear just to host a recreation of the Shadow Moses incident? Why, then, did they allow Arsenal Gear to get wrecked in DC, if it's so bloody important? Don't tell me the data they learned is important enough to justify losing that thing. Shut up. You could build ten aircraft carriers (probably) with the money it would take to build Arsenal Gear, and that would sure as hell be more valuable than a submersible supercomputer that you only built to have a dainty white-haired man run around in, all to obtain data that couldn't possibly be relevant in any sane, ordered universe anyway.

I mean, come on. Just imagine some supervillain going, "With this footage of some androgynous person running around shooting people, I will conquer the world! Moohahaha!" Does that sound stupid to you? It should!

And lastly, the king of terrible motivations...

Revolver Ocelot: Wanted to re-create the Wild West in... wait, what? That's why he betrayed everyone he's ever worked for and killed scores of people? WHAT!? He wanted the Wild West to come back? Are you s$#@ing me?!

Oh, and he knew coming into contact with Snake would kill him, which is why he did it anyway. Doesn't anyone in this series believe in self-preservation!?

Ultimately, this whole discussion reminds me of the Evangelion franchise. Nothing makes sense in that show, either. Sure, you can look up the explanation on a wiki and let someone else figure it out, but then you're like, "What? Really? THAT'S why they did it? That's stupid!" And then you try to explain it to someone else, but you can't without breaking down laughing at the absurdity of it. Why? Because even after everything's been explained, you have to come face-to-face with the realization that the big mystery that's been baffling you is nothing more or less than a tangle of nonsense that STILL doesn't make sense. I think that pretty much sums up the Metal Gear Solid storyline.
 

Eagle Est1986

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THIS IS THE INTERNET [small]of course you're not the only one.[/small]

I understood it quite easily though it did get a bit nonsensey by the end. Nanomachines seemed to end up explaining everything, I liked things more when there was a bit more mystery to the series.
 

ultrachicken

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I'm a buyer of MGS4 and no other game in the series. I was confused because of all the references to stuff that they didn't explain, but regardless the plot was just ridiculous. Many of the characters had ridiculous names, the cutscenes were hopelessly corny in some cases, and there were a couple of cheesy fights involving Raiden and vamp. So, while I will admit that I didn't understand the story, it seemed to me like it was delivered poorly. Just my opinion, don't flame me.
 

Guitarmasterx7

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No-Superman10 said:
I understand the MGS plot perfectly and I have only watched about 1/3 cutscenes in the entire series
That's probably why you think you understand the plot, because in the middle of a cutscene sometimes they'll open up a whole new plotline or plot device that's really fucking complicated and has very little to do with what actually happens.

I get everything pretty well except for metal gear solid 2. Especially at the end where raiden climbs up that ladder and is all of the sudden in some big black endless void with a billion metal gear rays and solidus. What? And pretty much the whole deal with solidus for that matter... and Colonol and rose are fake but they aren't fake and everything is set up but it's still legitimately happening and Dr. Octopus solidus is there doing... something and... eh.... EEEEEEHHH.
 

IamSofaKingRaw

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Webb5432 said:
Ok. I have only played MGS3 and MGS4, so I don't get the whole thing (I kinda wiki'd the rest), but I will say that I never really bothered to get it. Also, I think some of the things in the series were just bad story telling.

Yep, you heard me. No, do not start crying, I am stating my opinion and bashing and whining will not cause me to change or open my eyes.

You are probably not the only one, just one of the few. I played 3 and 4 and never skipped a scene. And I will say this: screw the storytelling and design of this series!

The first two missions in MGS4 were awesome. Large areas with lots of bad guys, hi-tech gadgets, and it challenged me to think about stealth. However, by the third level, half of it was a rail shooter. The level in the snow base was only interesting when you fought Vamp, and the carrier mission, while climactic, was no good to me. And turning the game into a fight scene at the end without any controls? WTF!?!

Anyway, what I disliked was the ending. Don't get me wrong, I love twist endings in movies. In fact, I love the Saw movies for the twist at the end. And yes, MGS3 and 4 do pretty much the same thing. But there is a difference.


In Saw, the directors got the twists right (except six, I still don't get that one). To me, it did the twists right because of camera positioning. Ever seen Saw 3, maybe Saw 2? Well, I loved the little flashback scenes. But I love how all they did was show you things you had already seen, and then panned the camera a few meters to the side, or let the shot linger a moment longer so you saw some important plot device that was hidden just off camera earlier. Oh, and if a good guy is found out to be actually bad, they didn't make him sympathetic in the first place. You were horrified because other characters you knew were now in danger.

When you boil it down, the twists were good because the audience could relate to it. If you sat through the movie, the twist made sense because it showed you what you had already seen, and then changed the angle to put it in new light. Good characters being bad? It was ok because we had already seen what they could do and had not started to cheer them on just yet. And if we did, there was always someone else for our sympathies to side with.


*SPOILER WARNING*

MGS pisses me off because at the end, it has someone tell you everything you knew originally was wrong. I was pissed! I felt like I was a puppet! The whole time I was doing this, I had come to believe in my mission, hate the bad guys, love the good guys, I had no problem kicking Liquid Ocelot's ass. The day was saved, I was satisfied, and I could move on with my life. Sure, a good guy may have died. Maybe my character was emotionally hurt, but it was still good at that point.

I don't want some character to then turn to me at the very end and say that I had just killed my foster mother not because she was evil, but because it was a PR stunt. I don't want to know that I was set up not to kill a man because he was evil, but because I was gaining someone else entry to the hi-tech doohickey.

In Saw, you never felt like a puppet. Information was witheld to keep you guessing, but you could still see hints throughout the movie. In MGS, there is nothing. No hints, just witheld information. Everything you believed was a lie and I hated the game for that.

Oh, and I feel like being rude, so I'll say this. The final cutscene in MGS4 is an old man blatantly telling you all this for an HOUR. And he is supposed to be dying. It is the only instense in my life where I wanted a character to die so he would shut up.


So, no, you are not the only one who gets the story. It's just that some people were upset.
To me the whole game was epic but to be honest at half an hour I turned the game off because I had no idea what the guy in the wheelchair was saying and it was going on for so long. So yea...
 

FrankatronX

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Watch the rest of the cutscenes. Then pay close attention to the repeated basis of the series and finally when you have done that. Try to stay awake through the final hour of badly written crammed exposition.
 

Legendairy314

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Eclectic Dreck said:
I understand the plot fine. I just think its silly.
Agreed. It seems they were focused on filling in all the holes from MGS2 for the next few games. In the end it all worked out but not without a few head shaking moments. Still some great games anyway.
 

ProfessorLayton

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Nov 6, 2008
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I've beaten 1, 2, and 3 and I'm almost finished with 4 and I can tell you that you're not the only one. There are certain aspects that don't make much sense... but as for the story itself (LOL MASSIVE SPOILERS) it's really not that hard... all it comes down to is Metal Gear launches nukes (OMG!) and Snake destroys REX and then Raiden destroys like 5 REXs and RAY and then it goes back in time where Big Boss destroys the first REX and then Solid Snake comes back to the future and kills a bunch of women in order to get Raiden his dialysis machine because he is a robot now. And Liquid Snake is Snakes evil twin clone brother (OMG!) and he died but he's now in Ocelot's hand because Gray Fox cut off Ocelot's hand and then Gray Fox comes back in the second game despite dying in the first except it's really not Gray Fox this time it's a woman and she has a daughter that the Patriots (the government and they're evil!!!!) took away from her so she has to fight to get her back and then a vampire shows up with a girl who can't die except she can die and oh yeah did I mention they're on a... well I forgot what it was but it actually isn't what they thought it was and it was really Metal Gear Ray and holding the GW AI which wanted to help the advancement of humanity except people didn't like it for some reason but maybe because the government's evil and then Raiden finds Otacon's sister and saves her except she dies and then Otacon gets really really mad and gets a bird and then Raiden gets captured and destroys Metal Gear RAY and the GW AI except that's not the only AI and everyone from the Patriots died 100 years ago despite the Patriots not even being around for but 50 years max (WTF OMG) and actually that hasn't been explained yet and then it goes back in time and Big Boss jumps out of a plane and kills an old man who explodes when he dies and destroys the first ever Metal Gear and then Snake in the future goes around doing missions that he had stopped doing for some reason and learns that he's going to die because of FoxDie which targets specific people to kill and oh yeah FOXHOUND was a group of elite military guys and Meryl is there even though she died in the first game and then Snake goes back to the first game and runs around a bunch... actually, just go to the Metal Gear Wiki [http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Wiki] if you want to know the rest.

Goodness, that was a mess of a paragraph.
 

shootthebandit

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tell me if i miss anything

MGS1: snake is brought out of retirement after fighting big boss back in MG 1+2. He has been sent to shadow moses where they believe that a group of terrorists is trying to use metal gear to launch nukes. you meet otacon who invented metal gear but didnt invent it to launch nukes because he is a pacifist. You then find out that snake and liquid are twins and clones of big boss. Then you find out snake is actually a biological weapon who is injected with a nano-virus designed to kill specific targets and he also has some nano machines inside him to make him fight better

MGS2: snake and otacon are on a ship trying to destroy a new variant of metal gear, they are unsuccesful and liquid ocelot (liquid controlling ocelot via his arm). they find out that this one was designed to destroy the original. the ship sinks and snake is pressumed to be killed in action and accused of being a terrorist. later on there is an oil rig thing which is actually a super computer and you are basically being controlled by a group called the patriots who are dead presidents (basically the mount rushmore guys) then you find out the patriots are this super computer thing

MGS4: snake is alot older because of his nano machines, liquid is using the patriots and the fact that everyone know has a nano machine to control the military. we find out that he needs the remains of big boss to use the patriots but then big boss is somehow still alive but he doesnt even want to use the patriot system he want to use metal gear to fire a nuke at it but that chick disables the patriots anyway using some code that sunny used its like foxdie but doesnt kill people but instead relieves them of nano machines clutches. that jonny guy never had nano machines because he was scared of needles so he was unaffected by everything. people cant cope without nano machines and the world is too much for them (kinda like a blind person being able to see). we also find out that the patriots are actually your team from MGS3 (including big boss)

ive not finished playing MGS3 so im missing some knowledge
 

Treblaine

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No-Superman10 said:
In the threads that involve discussion of plots and the like i have noted a number of posts of people saying that MGS is "Impossible to understand" and "Needlessly complicated" and others saying that they "Didn't even try to get it"

My question is this: Why?

I understand the MGS plot perfectly and I have only watched about 1/3 cutscenes in the entire series, so why is it so hard for people to just work it out?
MGS1 is great with a really well told and characterised story. MGS3 was also a solid story with far more personal characterisation on the life of a soldier.

But MGS2 and MGS4 it all goes to hell. Not impossible to understand... just impossible to care.

I mean "ocelot just THOUGH he was Liquid snake" thanks a lot for making all the scenes with Solid Snake and Liquid in Ocelot's body pointless.

Ocelot was an interesting character in and of himself, only for all through MGS4 to him being reduced to merely being insane and thinking he is Liquid... that just sucks. Two characters are simultaneously rendered worthless.

Meryl and Jonny's relationship was just sappy at best, painful to watch at worst. Remember, MGS1 set up an intense relationship between Snake and Meryl...skipped over in MGS2 and all gone by MGS4.

The Patriots are an arbitrary organisation with such shifting motives and other than the ramblings of characters who are proven to be insane there is no proof even in the game that the organisation even exists.

I say only consider MGS1 and MGS3 as canon... fuck MGS2 and MGS4 is almost as bad for trying to explain it all away.
 

Treblaine

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shootthebandit said:
tell me if i miss anything

MGS1: snake is brought out of retirement after fighting big boss back in MG 1+2. He has been sent to shadow moses where they believe that a group of terrorists is trying to use metal gear to launch nukes. you meet otacon who invented metal gear but didnt invent it to launch nukes because he is a pacifist. You then find out that snake and liquid are twins and clones of big boss. Then you find out snake is actually a biological weapon who is injected with a nano-virus designed to kill specific targets and he also has some nano machines inside him to make him fight better

MGS2: snake and otacon are on a ship trying to destroy a new variant of metal gear, they are unsuccesful and liquid ocelot (liquid controlling ocelot via his arm). they find out that this one was designed to destroy the original. the ship sinks and snake is pressumed to be killed in action and accused of being a terrorist. later on there is an oil rig thing which is actually a super computer and you are basically being controlled by a group called the patriots who are dead presidents (basically the mount rushmore guys) then you find out the patriots are this super computer thing

MGS4: snake is alot older because of his nano machines, liquid is using the patriots and the fact that everyone know has a nano machine to control the military. we find out that he needs the remains of big boss to use the patriots but then big boss is somehow still alive but he doesnt even want to use the patriot system he want to use metal gear to fire a nuke at it but that chick disables the patriots anyway using some code that sunny used its like foxdie but doesnt kill people but instead relieves them of nano machines clutches. that jonny guy never had nano machines because he was scared of needles so he was unaffected by everything. people cant cope without nano machines and the world is too much for them (kinda like a blind person being able to see). we also find out that the patriots are actually your team from MGS3 (including big boss)

ive not finished playing MGS3 so im missing some knowledge
Nope: Ocelot only THINKS he is Liquid... apparently brainwashed to act like that by the Patriots for really dumb reasons.

Oh and who is behind this all? *in the last 5 minutes Kojima looks for any spare character in the series and finds Major Zero from MGS3* yes, he is the mastermind behind it all. This is the old fart who completely usurped American democracy for no real reason or purpose at all. God, MGS4 was full of pointless cameos from the rest of the series.

Raiden starts casting lightening because... "Raiden is Japanese for lightening"

Really? Snake is English for Snake... does that mean Solid Snake has a poisonous bite now? What childish bullshit. I know WHAT is happening but it is all bullshit. Raiden does NOTHING to advance the plot, you could cut out EVERY SINGLE SCENE that he appears and the plot would continue as normal. Probably even be better.

Vamp should have died as a result of the anti-nanomachine syringe... no need for overly long fight scene shown in split-screen.

MGS4 takes all the bullshit in MGS2 only in attempting to explain it it makes it WORSE!

MGS3 was better as it was set way before The Patriot bullshit and all that was there was The Philosophers which were a far more interesting secret organisation in that they were a remnants of great power-plays of the First World war
 

No-Superman10

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thirdsonsaburo said:
You might be lying- who knows. Maybe you're an agent of the La-li-lu-le-los.

Specifically, do you understand the ending of MGS2? That's the test of a true fan.
What's to understand?
 

Treblaine

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Horny Ico said:
Besides, that event opened Snake's eyes to the true villains of the series: the Philosophers.
WHAT! How were the Philosophers to blame? The US Government sent The Boss on that mission. The philosophers didn't control the US government at that time.

Naked Snake / Big Boss kept working for the same "entity" that sent The Boss to certain death and ignominy of dying a traitor. It was tragic, it made Big Boss bitter but still a long way to setting up Outer Heaven which was not a jab at any secret organisation but a mercenary country to venerate soldiers.

BTW: MGS2 was just Kojima taking the piss, if it was anything it was a Post-modern experiment fucking with the audience's expectations and DELIBERATELY annoying them. It is a troll work. Kojima never wanted to make a sequel to it, but then the financial pressure, the death threats he had no choice.

He did MGS3 (Much closer to his talent as seen in MGS1) but as a prequel set 40 years previous that was easy. I don't think logic or the actual canon of MGS2 mattered as much as Kojima laughing at the millions of people being trolled as they have a bait-and-switch of Solid Snake for Raiden... a pathetic loser (satire of Could/Squall emo-git archetype much?) constantly emasculated and belittled. I mean reduced to running around naked clutching your privates... no way Kojima put that in other than to fuck with the audience.

MGS4 was pure fan-wankery and Kojima wasn't even trying to make a compelling story like MGS4.

Remember, he has received MULTIPLE DEATH THREATS from his FANS!! He is locked into this franchise and just wants to move onto something else, is that a good basis for making a rewarding and satisfying story? No, he's going to fuck with us some more.

Now he has abused MGS4 enough no one cares that MGS: Raiden doesn't have him at the helm... I bet he is glad he will soon finally be free.