American culture: males and pants

[Supdupadog]

Denim blue jeans where the hottest of shiz back in the gold mining day. Comfortable and tough, they where a cultural sensation.

So we love our jeans, and pants.

 

[madwarper]

#1: They aren't worn much in American sports. In American Football and Baseball the players wear long pants.

You do know pants offers protection to the legs. Right? Because in Sports where you're constantly sliding around, it's easy to get injured. It's not like they're playing soccer, simply prancing up and down a field.

There's the time these sports are played, Baseball ends October and Football goes from September to February. Now, it might be because you live on the upsidedowny part of the planet, but here it gets cold in winter.

#2: In US movies and TV you always see people jogging in sweat pants (Rocky movies, Dirty Harry), which seems like it would be really uncomfortable in the heat.

Rocky? The movie takes place from November to January. It gets fucking cold in Philadelphia.

#3: Games. When I play Tomb Raider I'm forced to stare for 20 hours at tiny shorts on a young woman. Drake in Uncharted or Indiana Jones? Pants. These are just a few examples.

As stated above, Laura Croft was designed for sex appeal. Indiana Jones was designed for practicality.

#4: Women's fashion is somewhat characterized by the exposure of flesh.

Again, not for practicality. You know what pants have? Pockets. You can put all sorts of stuff in them, like keys, wallets, cellphones and all other doodads, such then men don't have to carry purses.

To paraphrase; There are those that look at men wearing pants, and ask why? I dream of women wearing practical pants, and ask why not?

 

[FPLOON]

Well, I have been told that no one wants to see my hairy legs... Then again, I just love wearing [jean] pants all the time... Plus, despite my lack of fashion sense, I somehow do not look good wearing [jean] shorts...

Other than that, I can apparently pull of women's skinny jeans... (Take that as you will...)

 

[Julius Terrell]

I feel you can tell how much a runner enjoys running by how short their shorts are. Folk who wear short shorts love running. Or haven't purchased running gear since the 1970s.

That's me! I love showing off my legs when I'm running. I saw some runners shorts on amazon. They said they are like the same kind of shorts they used to train in in the armed forces. I'll be buying as many pairs as I can afford. Runner's pride world wide!!!! LOL!!!!

Anyway, I think it's funny that most guys here in the US only want to show their arms. I'm more toned all over so it's better to show the whole package or just my legs.

Most guys as I've seen only wear knee or calve length shorts no matter the weather. I think it's strange myself.

Edit: I remember a time I was running at a high school and that day I was wearing spandex shorts. I couldn't believe I heard a girl say yuck to seeing me exposing skin. Girls are crazy!!! They're supposed to find the male body attractive.

They way I hear some women talk, as if exposing our bodies is a turn off. WTF!?!

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

The new Tomb Raider games have Laura Croft wearing pants, because it just makes sense for a game where you're exploring treacherous terrain.

There is one TR game where she wears pants, and about 10 where she doesn't. I'm struggling to think of any game where a male protagonist doesn't wear pants.

Surely you can see that it's less socially acceptable for males to show leg flesh?

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I have noticed that US culture has a peculiar attitude to short pants, particularly males wearing them. Being mid-summer in the northern half of our sphere, this seems a good time as any to sit down with some iced tea and pontificate on the topic.

#1: They aren't worn much in American sports. In American Football and Baseball the players wear long pants. This seems very odd, considering how much they would sweat and considering that almost every other sport in the world the players wear short shorts.

There is an incredible fear of femininity in America when it comes to everything male. If you look at photos of basketball teams in the 60s and 70s you'll see some short shorts, but starting in the 80s short shorts became associated with women. And now short shorts on men is seen either as crossdressing or exhibitionism.

If you're referring to just regular shorts and not "short shorts," then you'll see them in basketball and golf. Long pants have basically always been the style in baseball--first knickers with knee high socks, and eventually the long pants. Baseball started as a "gentleman's sport" and was almost sort of a formal affair, so shorts or other such casual wear would have been considered uncouth. Nowadays I assume they keep them around both for tradition's sake, and because the players often dive and slide on the grass and dirt, which would really scrape their legs up if they didn't have something to serve as a barrier between the skin and the ground. And the same with football--lots of tackling and ground slamming going on there. Plus it's cold as fuck a good portion of the football season so they want something to keep the wind and snow from their bodies as well.

#2: In US movies and TV you always see people jogging in sweat pants (Rocky movies, Dirty Harry), which seems like it would be really uncomfortable in the heat. On the other hand you always see children wearing shorts, along with surfers and aging tourists or retirees. It's almost like a sign of lower status or something. Even in summer flicks where all the girls are wearing cut-off jeans and bikinis, the men are standing around in jeans.

The sweat pants thing has always been an exercise thing, though as you said it doesn't really make sense. I believe Rocky boxes in nothing but a pair of...well, boxer shorts so I don't think it's fair to chalk that up to prudishness. I think the sweatpants have to do with making them sweat more and thus make the training more rigerous, or if it's very cold outside when you're running.

#3: Games. When I play Tomb Raider I'm forced to stare for 20 hours at tiny shorts on a young woman. Drake in Uncharted or Indiana Jones? Pants. These are just a few examples.

This goes back to that femininity thing I mentioned in #1. Plus, Lara Croft was specifically designed to be eye candy for straight men. Drake and Indy, while they certainly are attractive, are not meant to be the same brand of action stripper that Lara is.

#4: Women's fashion is somewhat characterized by the exposure of flesh. Skirts, dresses and low-cut tops are female-specific clothing. I'm not qualified to suggest why this is the case, but it only serves to highlight the lack of such flesh-exposing clothes for the males. The scots have kilts and they have a cold climate. Most Aussies wear shorts all year round. If I were an alien I would say there seems to be something going on in the gender dynamics I'm unaware of.

Again, this has to do with the male view of what female sexiness is--or at least the male view of what female sexiness is that the media takes advantage of. Now, that's not to say the same kind of strategy is never employed against men for marketing purposes. A place you WILL find plenty of men dressed and posed like strippers is romance novels:

Spoiler

That "Scotty Mcmullet" one has had its title changed for the purpose of satire, but the image was kept the same.

So, what's up with shorts in the US? Is it somehow considered a social faux pas for a male to show flesh in public? Is it a fashion thing? I have no idea why this subject interests me, it just does. Thank you all.

I wouldn't say it's a foux pas for men to show flesh in public per se, in these hot summer days I see plenty of men with their shirts unbuttoned or completely off, walking the streets and mowing their lawns, or just hanging out with friends. And plenty of men wear "shorts," that is the ones that go down to about the knees. However it is considered odd for men to wear clothes that are feminine. V-neck shirts are often seen as shirts that gay men wear, and short shorts are seen as camp. The length of shorts is at least in part a fashion thing since, as I said, only 40 years ago shorts that don't cover most of the upper leg were normal on men. But I don't think it's a fashion that will be coming back because now short shorts are associated with women's fashion.

America is definitely more prudish than the rest of the world, but at this point my biggest worry isn't about our prudishness with the male physique. It's our prudishness with the female physique that bothers me, specifically the breasts. There are seriously places that don't allow BREASTFEEDING because they are so against females bearing their breasts in public. There are people who would rather see women breastfeed in public restrooms than out in the open. They're fine with bikinis and Victoria's Secret ads and five miles of sideboob hanging out of celebrity's dresses, but the moment even part of a nipple is visible suddenly it's x-rated and completely inappropriate for children. There is absolutely nothing more sexual about the female breasts than the male breasts. There is no reason for female toplessness to be a problem. Yet in America a single nip slip on national television can cost millions in damages.

Thank you, this was really informative and makes a lot of sense.

So now the question is why the hell shorts are regarded as feminine? When it's hot I can't stand sweating inside long pants, and I've been by women told my legs are attractive. I don't get where the femininity comes in.

I hope to see female toplessness become legal and normal practice within the next few decades. It would be ridiculous if it wasn't. As you said, they aren't sex organs and the only reason they're taboo is because we've demanded that they be hidden. The moment you reveal them - in public - you remove that taboo. The fact we can't even look at cultures which call women's hair and legs erotic body parts and demand that they therefore be hidden, and in that see a reflection of our own irrationality, says a lot about our inability to make rational decisions about how our society operates.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

#1: They aren't worn much in American sports. In American Football and Baseball the players wear long pants.

You do know pants offers protection to the legs. Right? Because in Sports where you're constantly sliding around, it's easy to get injured. It's not like they're playing soccer, simply prancing up and down a field.

You mustn't have seen a soccer game like ever. They are sliding much more than in baseball, where they swing 3 times and then walk back to their seats. And grid iron? Why would they need to slide? I see no benefit. Seems like a pussy reason not to wear shorts anyway, since wet grass can't graze you. Basketball is sensible, but there is no need for sliding, so this whole sliding argument is rather abortive.

 

[Steve Waltz]

#1: They aren't worn much in American sports. In American Football and Baseball the players wear long pants. This seems very odd, considering how much they would sweat and considering that almost every other sport in the world the players wear short shorts.

Considering they play in the winter this isn?t as odd as you?re thinking. American football players play in the snow from time to time so the long pants in that sport is more about practicality and protection of the elements. *Basketball* on the other hand?

In basketball they used to wear VERY short shorts so clothing didn?t get in the way. Now the shorts are long and baggy. That would be better evidence towards your point, I think.

 

[Nurb]

I wear cargo shorts that go down to knee level or a little below so they don't ride up so far when I sit down. I wear appropriate clothing and don't give a damn what other social norms are. I get hot easily. I don't see the fuss.

 

[Libra]

European here, and I personally never wear shorts. I just tend to be a prude, so skin exposure in public goes against my ethos. Then again, where I'm from we get about 20 hot days a year; if I lived in Florida I would probably have to reassess that rule

 

[VyseRogueKing]

#1: They aren't worn much in American sports. In American Football and Baseball the players wear long pants.

You do know pants offers protection to the legs. Right? Because in Sports where you're constantly sliding around, it's easy to get injured. It's not like they're playing soccer, simply prancing up and down a field.

You mustn't have seen a soccer game like ever. They are sliding much more than in baseball, where they swing 3 times and then walk back to their seats. And grid iron? Why would they need to slide? I see no benefit. Seems like a pussy reason not to wear shorts anyway, since wet grass can't graze you. Basketball is sensible, but there is no need for sliding, so this whole sliding argument is rather abortive.

Just a bit of nitpicking but baseball sliding takes place over rather firm dirt. I remember sliding once in pe shorts not because I was trying to get to the base but I was running and stepped on a rock that found it's way on the field. It rolled my ankle I lost my footing and slid a bit. Tore my shins up nice and proper. Football has tackling and astroturf is a common thing now. Basketball everyone says shorts because they breath easier. Out of many that are listed Basketball has the most running besides soccer which is probably why soccer wears shorts too.

Now the question is why the hell shorts are regarded as feminine? When it's hot I can't stand sweating inside long pants, and I've been by women told my legs are attractive. I don't get where the femininity comes in."

Shorts aren't really considered feminine it's just more common to see women wearing them because legs are a common "sexy" point of interest. Men wear plenty of shorts just not as long length as they used to be. But that length pretty much goes across the board in the western world. Now why this is a trend you'd have to ask a fashion historian because what everyone determines is the norm is typically drastically different each decade.

I don't know where this shorts thing came about. I spend a lot of time in an area that is relatively cold year round and I see shorts there pretty much year round except for winter. I know dudes that almost always wear shorts it's actually kinda weird to see them in pants.

As for me I stick to jeans because I'm half-Sasquatch so I'm extremely self-conscious of my body hair. That and I found them rather comfy because I'm not a big fan of the breeze working its way up my legs.

 

[madwarper]

You mustn't have seen a soccer game like ever. They are sliding much more than in baseball,

Really? Because, I watched some of the world cup. All there was people prancing up and down the field, occasionally falling down and pretending to be hurt. It reminds me of the coaching style of Gordon Bombay.

where they swing 3 times and then walk back to their seats.

Spoiler: Baseball sliding

And grid iron? Why would they need to slide? I see no benefit.

Spoiler: Football sliding

since wet grass can't graze you.

That just goes to show how little you know of Baseball and Football.
a) The bases they run around are NOT on "wet grass".
b) It's not just the ground the causes injuries, it's the players on the other team that you have to protect yourself from.

Basketball is sensible, but there is no need for sliding, so this whole sliding argument is rather abortive.

Basketball, at least on the professional level, is played in doors. You know, in heated stadiums. So, the weather isn't a factor as it is in Baseball or Football.

In case you're wondering what all white stuff is, we call it "snow".

Spoiler

But, you want to bring up the issues of "pussies"? Basketball has them in spades, just like Soccer.

Spoiler

 

[spartan231490]

yes, it's not culturally acceptable for men to wear pants much above the knee. Don't know why, don't care, but it is one of the examples of sexism against men in our culture that so many people tend to ignore. As for football though, they wear pants because they're padded pants, to protect your groin and upper legs at least, and probably your knees as well.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

You mustn't have seen a soccer game like ever. They are sliding much more than in baseball,

Really? Because, I watched some of the world cup. All there was people prancing up and down the field, occasionally falling down and pretending to be hurt. It reminds me of the coaching style of Gordon Bombay.

...right dude. Don't forget your glove for baseball practice you might hurt your hands! Oh and your 22 pads for throw-ball.

 

[BeeGeenie]

I do not generally wear shorts. I am a pasty, somewhat overweight, hairy man, with no desire to gross out unsuspecting passers-by.

Also, I don't want my mayonnaise colored calves to get sunburned, which is also a perfectly reasonable... reason to wear long sleeved shirts in the middle of summer.

and a hat, if I'm going to be outside long. Which is the only reason I wear hats (baseball caps suck, they don't protect your ears). m'lady.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

The new Tomb Raider games have Laura Croft wearing pants, because it just makes sense for a game where you're exploring treacherous terrain.

There is one TR game where she wears pants, and about 10 where she doesn't. I'm struggling to think of any game where a male protagonist doesn't wear pants.

Surely you can see that it's less socially acceptable for males to show leg flesh?

I can think of some games off the top of my head here the male protagonist doesn't wear pants. Link from the Legend of Zelda franchise has only worn pants in 1 game, in fact there are tons games from earlier console generations where male protagonists don't wear pants, like Earthbound, Tomba, Ape Escape, Kingdom Hearts, multiple Final Fantasy games, etc. Then there's also tons of male characters in games who aren't the main protagonist that show some leg.

Then there's of course this glorious man: Saxton Hale

A guy so manly he barely even wears clothing.

 

[Therumancer]

I have noticed that US culture has a peculiar attitude to short pants, particularly males wearing them. Being mid-summer in the northern half of our sphere, this seems a good time as any to sit down with some iced tea and pontificate on the topic.

#1: They aren't worn much in American sports. In American Football and Baseball the players wear long pants. This seems very odd, considering how much they would sweat and considering that almost every other sport in the world the players wear short shorts.
#2: In US movies and TV you always see people jogging in sweat pants (Rocky movies, Dirty Harry), which seems like it would be really uncomfortable in the heat. On the other hand you always see children wearing shorts, along with surfers and aging tourists or retirees. It's almost like a sign of lower status or something. Even in summer flicks where all the girls are wearing cut-off jeans and bikinis, the men are standing around in jeans.
#3: Games. When I play Tomb Raider I'm forced to stare for 20 hours at tiny shorts on a young woman. Drake in Uncharted or Indiana Jones? Pants. These are just a few examples.
#4: Women's fashion is somewhat characterized by the exposure of flesh. Skirts, dresses and low-cut tops are female-specific clothing. I'm not qualified to suggest why this is the case, but it only serves to highlight the lack of such flesh-exposing clothes for the males. The scots have kilts and they have a cold climate. Most Aussies wear shorts all year round. If I were an alien I would say there seems to be something going on in the gender dynamics I'm unaware of.

So, what's up with shorts in the US? Is it somehow considered a social faux pas for a male to show flesh in public? Is it a fashion thing? I have no idea why this subject interests me, it just does. Thank you all.

It depends on where you are, one thing to remember about the US is that the weather here can change radically in a lot of areas. When it comes to guys jogging in sweats and stuff, a lot of the time the guys doing it are in some of the bigger cities like New York where it can go from blistering hot, to damp, cold, and miserable, and some times fairly quickly. Part of the things about sweats as well is that they do well in a variety of conditions, and can be more comfortable when things are relatively warm than you might give them credit for. The bottom line is dudes tend to wind up having clothes that they wear in a variety of environments. One of the things that's awesome about Jeans is that they work under almost any conditions so have become a regular part of attire. I think with girls it's that they like clothes more on average, and tend to accumulate much larger wardrobes without any prompting. Girls tend to be more likely to have situational outfits than guys, who prefer to wear the same stuff as much as possible. Some places like New England (where I reside) see this an awful lot myself, as a general rule guys will only wear shorts if they are going to the beach or whatever.

The point is that I don't think it has anything to do with guys not showing skin. Your average guy would probably be fine living his own life swapping out a few pairs of jeans, and a selection of T-shirts with maybe the occasional sweatshirt if the situation demands (we have coats for inclement weather). Suits and such are seen as a necessary evil for employment, and indeed one of the first things a lot of people in businesses like to do is dress casual if they are given the opportunity. Girls on the other hand, they collect clothes, and seem to spend a lot of time griping about guys and their wardrobes (or lack thereof).

Things might be different in other countries, I hadn't put a lot of thought into it.

As far as girls and "practical clothing" goes it depends entirely on the character. There is more than one type of practical outfit, and honestly I think girls care more about looking good when they do something (though exceptions exist). In the case of a character like Lara Croft one thing to remember is that by the original concept she was a debutante, treasure thief, basically the bad guy from an "Indiana Jones" movie. While she did a lot of crazy platforming and such her games at least to begin with involved a lot of indoor environments and unexpected situations. There were a lot of sexy video game heroines, but what sold her was the way the looks and personality all fit together, and part of it that she was being sassy by being able to dress like that in the situations she was in. To be honest I never got the impression originally that Lara was exactly supposed to have been hacking her way through brush with a machete. She seemed to be doing her adventuring by having information to begin with, and then throwing scads of money at it, so presumably she's like riding up to a tomb she put together the location of from someone else's records in her air conditioned Hummer and then heading inside to rob the place, while the Indiana Jones types who did the work shake their fists at the evil Tomb Raider (note the name, which is not exactly flattering... the only way they could have made it worse was to just call her "Grave Robber".. which pretty much set the tone for the rest of it).

For the record however Lara's wardrobe did change based on the situation, even early on cut scenes involving her going to arctic climates and the like had her wearing heavy fur coats, and she did wear wet suits underwater and so on.

The Tomb Raider reboot seems to have turned her into more of a "Nathan Drake" rather than keeping her original personality and premise which made her stand out from the other treasure hunters and Indiana Jones clones. It's to
the point where I've argued they should have just started a new franchise. But then again I was also annoyed when they started changing her from coy and playful, to a grim-scowling action girl who seemed out to bash dudes. The original personality seemed to go along with the idea that for her this was all a game, and she was stealing crap because she was a bored, spoiled, rich girl, who was able to sort of act like one while doing crap other people would bust their butts for.... along with the whole moral point of "she's already ungodly rich, it's even more wrong that she's robbing these places". Lara was originally at best an anti-hero, or perhaps an outright villain (but a fun one) which made her different especially since "anti-hero" didn't come with a gritty scowl in the beginning.

Hmmm wrote more on Lara than I intended, but the point is that I don't think it's especially unrealistic that girls spend more time with their costumes in all situations, than dudes, given that most dudes would probably be just as content to wear their Jeans and T-shirt doing anything unless something else was absolutely required.

 

[briankoontz]

I wear mostly shorts in the summer, and a couple weeks ago I was checking out in the grocery store and a 6 year old points at me and says "no pants". I'm not taking fashion advice from a 6-year-old.