American English Professor hates British English

[Xojins]

I wish I were joking. I'm apparently beginning to blend some bits of American grammar with British grammar... and he hates it. I got a paper that I wrote back today with marks all over the damned thing with one large comment down at the bottom:

"We don't use British grammar here."

It's strange. You'd think that the English... know a thing or two about the English language.

Any other Escapists have experiences like this?

If you go to school in America, I would assume they use Standard American English grammar. I would expect a professor to mark down a paper that didn't adhere to those rules.

 

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

While we're on the subject as well: it's 'aluminium'.

What I've always fund funny about that is that the guy who discovered it (who was British) originally named it "aluminum". Obviously there's been some disagreement since then (Should it end in -ium, like calcium and magnesium? On the other hand, -um had also already been established for other things like platinum and tantalum...), but the IUPAC says both are acceptable these days, and they're kind of the authority on that.

 

[Mandalore_15]

Snip

This is the worst advice I've ever heard... I have a lot of experience in academia and I can tell you that the ONLY way to ensure good quality in education is to challenge your tutors CONSTANTLY. When people get complacent or introduce elitist hierarchies then the quality of teachers goes downhill. It's as much the student's responsibility as it is the faculty's to ensure they are being taught properly.

Snip

Snip

You are rude and I find your reasoning utterly arbitrary and unfounded.

Read the forum rules, particularly the part on not being a jerk.

"As for your comments about "respect", no offence but that's just bullshit."

That is NOT acceptable, you can't just call people's argument "bullshit" with the empty qualifier of "no offence". You don't even explain yourself, you just hurl insults and move on.

"The OP is paying this guy's wages so he can get a good education... not to be pedantic over vernacular spellings."

Now you are contradicting yourself, as what is an education if not extending to spelling and informing of appropriate vernacular? You seem to be asserting through "pay his wages" that the student is somehow the boss and can tell the teacher what he wants to be taught. No. The student (may) pay a fee to the University but the Dean or Chancellor pays his wages, that person is the boss.

You should realise there are many many vernaculars of English beyond American and British:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_the_English_language

You can see why its best to say they should use the local dialect, rather than saying one dialect is "wrong" or having to learn all the dozens of English dialects.

I'm sorry you feel that way but I don't think I've been rude at all. I haven't called you insulting names or hurled abuse at you. Calling your argument "bullshit", well... that's just how I feel, and this forum is fairly lax when it comes to people using swear words to express themselves (as it should be, in my opinion). Everyone has the tendency to talk bullshit some of the time, so if you think it's an insult to call you on it then it's simply insecurity on your part, I wasn't making any judgements about you personally.

As for reading the forum rules, I can assure you I have. The word "jerk" isn't mentioned anywhere... I even ctrl-F'ed it. Not that I feel I have acted like a jerk.

But to follow up from calling your argument "bullshit", you then say that I don't explain why I think it is. I think you'll find that I've done so by analogy. I'll now expand it for you if you don't think that was enough:

If anyone is offended because you spell thing "the British way" in America, or "the American way" in Britain, they're a complete moron. Life is too short to be offended by things that are so trivial. The triviality of it is further compounded by the fact that no individual way is the "correct way" to spell it. Both are widely understood and the spelling differences are minor and not a barrier to understanding, and THAT is why it is petty and anally retentive to dock marks for it. Language is a method of communication first and foremost. Spelling things completely wrongly should be corrected, but if a spelling is vernacular and what you're used to there is no benefit to chewing someone out over it.

And I haven't contradicted myself. A good teacher is someone who teaches people concepts and ideas and allows their students to expand their minds as their knowledge grows. They don't nit-pick about vernacular grammar and spellings. As I've said, if something is straight out wrong, correct it. If the student's grasp on the language is poor, let them know about it. DON'T act like you've got a rod up your ass over something a choice of spellings that are equally correct. American and British culture are closely linked; there is an abundance of written material crossing over between them all the time. Most of the time, editors don't bother to change the spellings because they don't need to. People understand it so what's the point? It would be a waste of time.

As for students "being the boss", damn right they should be (in a limited sense)! Students, especially in America, pay ridiculous amounts of money for their courses. Education has been marginalised into a consumer product. As the person BUYING the product, you have a right to demand quality. I had a tutor who failed me on a paper in my second year, on a point I KNEW to be wrong. I made a big stink about it in the law school and my paper was reviewed. Not only was my grade boosted MASSIVELY, he was removed from the teaching roster for that course. This just goes to show that people working in universities aren't all-knowing or infallible. They should be held to account when they screw up.

And this leads to my main point. From what the OP has described, the reason he was marked down was not for any educational benefit, but because the professor simply hates British spellings of words. This is both petty and wrong. He didn't justify his decision to do this, and if it can't be justified it shouldn't happen. Doing so is simply being a poor tutor.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

Hey, awesome, England-vs-America baiting. This bullshit never seems to get old.

 

[Treblaine]

I'm sorry you feel that way but I don't think I've been rude at all. I haven't called you insulting names or hurled abuse at you. Calling your argument "bullshit", well... that's just how I feel, and this forum is fairly lax when it comes to people using swear words to express themselves (as it should be, in my opinion).

I personally don't have a problem with it but trust me: I have been on this site longer than you, I have posed far more often than you, I know what I am talking about it.

The problem with you talking smack by calling my posts "bullshit" is there is no proportional response unless I lower myself to your level, but that just opens me up to a mod wrath, I don't want that. I have been suspended for far less that what you have posted, you've gotten away with it because you simply have not been noticed. I've locked horns with people who are not above riling you up then pressing the report button to screw you over when you give a proportional response.

Also could you keep your post more concise. A key element of structured debates is a time limit, as an all too effective strategy is to talk your opponent to death bringing up such an incredible quantity of points rather than a quality argument.

"As for reading the forum rules, I can assure you I have. The word "jerk" isn't mentioned anywhere... I even ctrl-F'ed it. Not that I feel I have acted like a jerk."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct

How can you miss that, it's right there in huge blue letters:

[HEADING=2]Don't Be a Jerk[/HEADING]

Yes the page may be labelled Cod of Conduct but I followed the link of "Forum Rules" at the top of this very page.

 

[Sovvolf]

Ho'are, well'tell that bludy wankar that darn heere in gud'ol England wi'speak English. S'not rieght't'im cumin rand heere givin it his marth. Wi'orta kik shite arten'im. Tell'im t' cum rand are'end or rand tarn n' seh that.

Okay jokes a side... He's an American English teacher and probably wants you to be using American grammar. Its not too hard to see why. He'll be teaching you American grammar so he'd expect that to show in your work. If your using British grammar then its showing him that your not paying attention in class or your not learning from his teachings. Reasonable enough complaint.

 

[Treblaine]

If anyone is offended because you spell thing "the British way" in America, or "the American way" in Britain, they're a complete moron.

Straw man argument, who says this is a matter of personal offence? This is clearly a matter of Academic Standards.

If you say those Academic standards should be far looser and give consideration to all possible English dialects well that's a very nice opinion you have there but it doesn't stand much on its own. Decisions of these standards are left down to people who have proven themselves, like the Professor in question, they have worked damn hard for a long time to get where they are, I'd value their opinion more than yours.

And I haven't contradicted myself. A good teacher is someone who... They don't nit-pick about vernacular grammar and spellings.[/quotes]

Well you say that with a lot of conviction but why should I take your word over a reputable University Professor? I'll go with the professional opinion if you don't mind. I think not only correct but APPROPRIATE spelling and grammar are relevant throughout teaching.

Correct depends on Context.

As for students "being the boss", damn right they should be (in a limited sense)! Students, especially in America, pay ridiculous amounts of money for their courses. Education has been marginalised into a consumer product. As the person BUYING the product, you have a right to demand quality. I had a tutor who failed me on a paper in my second year, on a point I KNEW to be wrong. I made a big stink about it in the law school and my paper was reviewed. Not only was my grade boosted MASSIVELY, he was removed from the teaching roster for that course. This just goes to show that people working in universities aren't all-knowing or infallible. They should be held to account when they screw up.

I don't think you got your mark overturned merely by making a lot of noise but by getting agreement from other elements of academia, hence the review. Good luck to the OP getting other members of US Academia to support his cause to use British vernacular - not even because he IS British but because he just casually does so.

And this leads to my main point. From what the OP has described, the reason he was marked down was not for any educational benefit, but because the professor simply hates British spellings of words. This is both petty and wrong. He didn't justify his decision to do this, and if it can't be justified it shouldn't happen. Doing so is simply being a poor tutor.

The OP gives no reason to indicated prejudice, he seems to merely presume it as I think he is angry and being unreasonable in his frustration. He said he wrote "We don't use British English here" and that is not prejudice, it is stating a simple fact. I don't think his teacher hates British English, he just understands its proper use.

 

[tkioz]

When it's called American he can fucking talk, until then he can shove it up his arse.

Speaking of American-English, anyone else really tanked off that it's the default choice for English in most programs? It should be default English, then listed in alphabetical order.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

In other words he said "We don't say that in america." Damn Justin Bieber. Or you could just go up to him, stare at him for a couple minuites, throw a cup of hot coffee in his face and yell "IT R A FREEE COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[mrwoo6]

I was an english teacher, and my american student wrote "mom" on his paper, i would be tempted to fail him, and he would get worce marks. If my german student wrote mum in german i WOULD fail him.

Your don't spell out a forigen languge in a languge class. its that simple.

Look, I know you were already called out on this, but seriously you're an English teacher.

And it's not just the blatantly wrong words that spell-check will fix for you, it's also your failure to use proper capitalization in proper nouns and the like. (Which spell-check will correct)

Spoiler: correct way to spell it

I was an English teacher, and my American student wrote "mom" on his paper, I would be tempted to fail him, and he would get worse marks. If my German student wrote "mum" in German I would[footnote]Personally, since you can underscore words, I would instead of "CAPS LOCK"[/footnote] fail him.

You don't spell out a foreign language in a language class. It's that simple.

He may be an English teacher (maybe) but this IS an internet forum.

Each post isn't a dissertation, this is supposed to be informal to a large extent.

I think he knows how is the proper way to spell, but missing capitalisation, omitting quotation marks and not proof-reading is not ignorance, mere laziness. Because why go to that effort?

I usually do go to that extra effort in perfect grammar simply because I am fed up of "grammar nazis" (as they are known) using things like that as a straw man argument against what I had so carefully thought about and argued for.

It is a logical fallacy as it "shoots the messenger" and distracts from the message:

"Your don't spell out a forigen languge in a languge class."

Now it doesn't really matter if he is or is not an English Teacher, is this statement agreeable in an of itself? OK, he may be using an inverse of the logical fallacy "shoot he messenger" by claiming to be a reliable source (whether he really is or not) to give truth to his position beyond what the position's value has in itself.

Ah, a typo has led to quite a unnecessary argument. that is meant to be "If i was a teacher" i quite clearly, as you can see, am not.


However, i must agree with this man. spelling is irrelevant, the argument still stands.

 

[internetzealot1]

Your in America being taught by an American English teacher.

So why would you use British grammar. Maybe if you're with friends or in Britain, but not in a academic paper!
Yes it sounded wrong, but your supposed to use proper grammar.

One could argue the OP *IS* using proper grammar. Also, while we're arguing grammar, it's 'you're', not 'your'. Maybe you shouldn't be posting on this thread


I *cannot* *STAND* the terms 'British English' and 'American English'. The Chinese language has about a million different dialects, and they all have different names. I think 'British English' should be called English (because it's the proper, ORIGINAL one), and that rubbish the Americans distorted it into should be called something else. As for your professor, as long as it is considered correct in 'British English', he shouldn't have marked you down, but morons will be morons

Good God, get off you're high horse. You don't mean to tell me that British English hasn't changed in the 200 years since America won its independednce? And that a teacher of American English should teach British English to his students? And its not even like there is any big difference between the two. I know the U.K. fiercely bitter over America, but all you Brits in here who are acting like this teacher should be burned at the stake for doing his job correctly are making complete fools of yourselves.

Now who's on their high horse? Most "Brits" honestly couldn't give a flying fuck about America... if there's anything for us to be bitter about, it's either our lame-arse politicians getting into bed with your idiot presidents, or the fact that your unregulated banks and stock markets fucked us in the arse in the biggest show of financial irresponsibility in the last century.

Also, you've contradicted yourself. You say there's not a big difference between American and British English, yet you think the professor is simply doing his job by pointing it out and docking marks. If it's not a big deal then he should have the common courtesy to shut the fuck up and mark it as he would anyone else. It's not as if the alternate spelling stops him reading the paper, and it can't even be labelled "wrong" with any authority, they're simply different interpretations. If British students transfer out to America on an exchange program would he act the same way towards them? The guy was being prick, end of story.

"Most "Brits" honestly couldn't give a flying fuck about America." Oh, so is that why this thread turned into a free-fire zone? Because you don't cared. And I didn't contradict myself. I said there weren't big differences, but there are still differences. OP's teacher was being picky becauese he's a teacher and he has to be. If he's not then he's being a shitty teacher.

 

[Bocaj2000]

An angry teenager gets criticism from his professor. The teenager posts something online claiming prejudice looking for support.

Pro-tip, he's not a teenager, he's like 25/26.

Second pro-tip, by implying this is something only an angry teenager would do, you're also acting prejudicial and looking for support.

He didn't seem very mad to me, just seemed a bit surprised.

As I would be.

Someone complaining about a teacher comes off as being a teenager. It is not prejudice- it is what happens. Many people, teens included, put blame one others before reflecting upon themselves.

Even if the OPs intentions were simply to share a criticism that he had to work on, many of the other posters' nationalism and prejudice made his intentions look bigoted. Please don't be so condescending next time. It makes your opinion seem less valid (which it's not*).

*EDIT

 

[SilverUchiha]

The only thing that has ever gotten to me about "British-English" is the spelling of the word "color". Why add the extra "U"? it serves no additional purpose other than to add a letter the word doesn't really even need. It'd be like adding an "a" to lightning to make it "laightning". It isn't wrong (least not if you know Japanese pronunciations). But it is just a pointless and unnecessary addition... okay... done ranting.

 

[motyr]

I think the professor was correct, but was crass in his comment. Just try to adapt, however wrong it may seem, it'll make your life better.

 

[Creator002]

"We don't use British grammar here."

I wasn't aware there was much of a difference except for a few extra words and a few different spellings?

There's some punctuation differences, too.

Such as?

I'm Australian and from what I understand we use the British pronunciation and spelling more than the American so:

Ass:
American - Ae-ss
British/Australian - Ah-ss (also sometimes spelt "arse")

Aluminium:
American: Ah-loo-mi-num
Australian (no idea about British): Al-yoo-min-yum

Zebra:
American - Zee-bra
British/Australian: Zeh-bra

Also spelling differences: Center - Centre, Labor - Labour, Color - Colour, etc.

 

[Syntax Man]

"British English" (and by extension Canadian, Australian, etc.) English is what I consider "English."

The language spoken and spelled in the USA is what I call "American."

Therefore, this tosser isn't doing his job, he is an "English" professor, not and "American" professor.


tl;dr: what an ass.

 

[Mandalore_15]

I personally don't have a problem with it but trust me: I have been on this site longer than you, I have posed far more often than you, I know what I am talking about it.

Congratulations. I'm sure you must be very proud of this life achievement! I do love forum elitists...

Also could you keep your post more concise. A key element of structured debates is a time limit, as an all too effective strategy is to talk your opponent to death bringing up such an incredible quantity of points rather than a quality argument.

"As for reading the forum rules, I can assure you I have. The word "jerk" isn't mentioned anywhere... I even ctrl-F'ed it. Not that I feel I have acted like a jerk."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct

How can you miss that, it's right there in huge blue letters:

[HEADING=2]Don't Be a Jerk[/HEADING]

Yes the page may be labelled Cod of Conduct but I followed the link of "Forum Rules" at the top of this very page.

Keeping my posts more concise would entail not responding to some of the points YOU have sent my way. If you want me to be concise, lead me to be concise. Don't fire off a huge number of points that require a response. And please don't lecture me on how to debate, I actually have lot of experience debating (NOT, I might add, on the internet, but in real-life scheduled debates in universities).

I looked at the stickied thread "The Banhammer and You: A User's Guide to the Forums" in the Off-Topic Discussion boards. The word "jerk" is never mentioned there. I am hardly to blame for this. Once again, I don't even think I have been a jerk, so it hardly matters to me anyway.

If anyone is offended because you spell thing "the British way" in America, or "the American way" in Britain, they're a complete moron.

Straw man argument, who says this is a matter of personal offence? This is clearly a matter of Academic Standards.

If you say those Academic standards should be far looser and give consideration to all possible English dialects well that's a very nice opinion you have there but it doesn't stand much on its own. Decisions of these standards are left down to people who have proven themselves, like the Professor in question, they have worked damn hard for a long time to get where they are, I'd value their opinion more than yours.

Who says this is a matter off offence? You said it. How about you re-read some of your previous arguments and try to keep up with yourself!

You also seem to be making a huge number of assumptions about this professor. You assume he is reputable. You assume he is promoting good academic standards. You honestly haven't a clue who he is, so how can you even comment on anything in more than the general concern? The fact of the matter is, none of the top 10 British Universities (one of which I attend) are going to get pissy and reduce your marks over vernacular spelling. End of.

A good teacher is someone who... They don't nit-pick about vernacular grammar and spellings.

Well you say that with a lot of conviction but why should I take your word over a reputable University Professor? I'll go with the professional opinion if you don't mind. I think not only correct but APPROPRIATE spelling and grammar are relevant throughout teaching.

Correct depends on Context.

Again, you're making assumptions about reputation. Every university has a bad professor. The fact that you don't even seem able to fathom this suggests a very "school-boy" outlook on your part. That's what you SHOULD think in the class-room because it's where children are shaped by their superiors. The point of the lecture theatre is that everyone there is an adult, i.e. equal. As such, professors are open to challenge, as they should be. It's an essential part of higher education, without which it would stagnate and become confined to increasingly irrelevant old traditions. If the lecturer can justify a reason why they should use American English then fine, they should. If he can't, as appears to be the case, they should be able to use whatever vernacular they like.

"Most "Brits" honestly couldn't give a flying fuck about America." Oh, so is that why this thread turned into a free-fire zone? Because you don't cared. And I didn't contradict myself. I said there weren't big differences, but there are still differences. OP's teacher was being picky becauese he's a teacher and he has to be. If he's not then he's being a shitty teacher.

Your concept of a "teacher" seems horribly skewed. So in your eyes a teacher is an anally retentive perfectionist rather than a broadener of minds? This is the point where I ask you what the highest level of education you've achieved is.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

British English isn't more 'right' than American English, in the same way that you couldn't say a chimp or a human is the 'right' ape. Language evolves, British English and American English merely split apart a bit a while back. In fact, American English is probably more similar to what English would have been in Shakespeare's time (for example, Shakespeare uses words like 'trash').

And it seems perfectly acceptable to me for a teacher teaching an American course in English to demand American spellings, because you're in America the American dialect would be considered the correct one.