As a Canadian, Libertarian, Athiest, living in America on a Visa surrounded morality 'laws' it's starting to concern me that noone cares about the further integration of church and state. I know America has a new president, but to be honest he was just the lesser of two evils. Anywho, what are your thoughts? Is America becoming Theocracy? Is it one already? Is that a bad thing? I believe it is.
American Theocracy
- Thread starter Neotericity
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Trust me, you're not the only one who's scared of that posibility. It is my misfortune to live in Oklahoma, and in case you hadn't heard, we get the real nutjobs here. That said though, the fact that people like Sarah Palin weren't immediately laughed off the stage for some of the truly rediculous religious stuff they would inevitably integrate into our government is truly terrifying. Do consider though that this isn't a new trend. Ronald Regan once commented (seriously I might add) to one of his cabinet members that he had set up the necessary conditions for the rapture [feel free to read Sam Harris' "The End of Faith", an excelent book, if you want an exact quote]; George Bush Senior once said that he did not consider atheists to be legitimate American citizens; and the fact that Bush Jr. used to have weekly meetings with Ted Haggard speaks for itself.
I would love to see an atheist take up office in this country, but the unfortunate thing, as Richard Dawkins related in his 2005 (I think that was the year) speach at the Ted Talks, that's unfortunately just not a possibility at the current time.
I would love to see an atheist take up office in this country, but the unfortunate thing, as Richard Dawkins related in his 2005 (I think that was the year) speach at the Ted Talks, that's unfortunately just not a possibility at the current time.
No offense Rogue, but you are exactly my opposite. It sickens me to see that people think we are a bunch of religious kooks, while at the same time religion is being attacked by our own people. to see that there is a possibility for God to be taken out of EVERYTHING is just ridiculous. I get the feeling like religion is viciously attacked by atheists, but we don't attack them nearly as much. Same goes for conservatives vs. Liberals....this may not be true, but it feels like liberals viciously attack conservatives, but we just don't fight back.
btw...obama is not the lesser of (more than) two evils, he's the popular one, and the popular one isn't always the right one.
btw...obama is not the lesser of (more than) two evils, he's the popular one, and the popular one isn't always the right one.
Hopefully we won't become a theocracy with our new, more competent president. It deeply annoys me how we still have such a problem with gay marriage and comprehensive sex ed. We still have blue laws for some reason. The wall between church and state has probably been crumbling for a while now, accelerating after WWII and during the Reagan era. I'll just hope that the Southern Baptist Convention loses their influence and we base our values on logic and reason someday and not in the flawed assumption that an old book is right about everything.
If you want to understand why atheists like myself are attacking religion, take some time out of your busy day, rent or buy a copy of Jesus Camp, and then watch it. The religious right in this country is responsible for a number of attrocities, and is right to be attacked. The fact that gays can't marry is something that we, as Americans, should be downright ashamed of, and innocent children suffer massive psychological damage as the end result of religious indoctrination by fundamentalists. Moderate religion is a victim in the crossfire, because the fundamentalists draw their legitimacy from the numbers of people who call themselves "Christian".reaper660 said:
That's weird, I always though conservatives were the aggressive ones, though liberals do dominate the satire. Liberals make fun of things and conservatives spew hate based on outdated moral views and attitudes, at least on Fox and with some prominent religious and right-wing organizations.reaper660 said:
As for Obama, he's not the best, but he's better than the guy who chose Sarah Palin.
Abrahamic religion is, in my opinion, slowly dying off because the extreme, unfiltered ideals are refusing to integrate and progress as society as whole has deemed fit.
It's not a big deal. What we, who are worried about religion's effects on politcs, MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT DO is try to suppress it. The "counter-culture" Christians use it nowadays, citing Hollywood and the public educational system as decadent cesspools of anti-religion, and the Muslims struck back with a bloody furor after the Shah cracked down on traditional Islam.
People who oppose the Church and State union ideal shouldn't allow the religious groups an opportunity to victimize themselves. We let them through, and the wackos will be laughed off stage, while the moderates will even everything out and keep the rest happy.
Look at the Iranian government after the Shah's exile and the Ayatollah's return for an example. Because of the suppression of conservative Muslim beliefs during Pahlavi's rule, everyone supported the most radical members and the most radical policies, and the first two presidents, who were moderates, tried constantly to maintain a society centered around rationale and balance. But the people voted for a theocracy, because the politicians were able to attain a stigma of the oppressed, and use it to their full benefit to further agendas as radical Islamists.
My opinion is this: there is nothing inherently wrong with religion; let's be honest here, we can't can't prove the non-existence of God any better than we an prove the existence of God, but politics is a dirty business, and religion has no place in it in terms of making decisions and guiding the state by a singular doctrine. I'm confident that we are inching towards a much more tolerable society in the regard to people, who were once second-class citizens, or even people unworthy to live, are now being accepted (or tolerated), and science is much more prevalent today and has made phenomenal progress as it stands. What remains is that we let extremism stagnate and distill on it own terms. If they isolate themselves from the rationality that defines modern civilization, they will cease to be relevant.
So sit back, and relax. I'm in no hurry.
It's not a big deal. What we, who are worried about religion's effects on politcs, MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT DO is try to suppress it. The "counter-culture" Christians use it nowadays, citing Hollywood and the public educational system as decadent cesspools of anti-religion, and the Muslims struck back with a bloody furor after the Shah cracked down on traditional Islam.
People who oppose the Church and State union ideal shouldn't allow the religious groups an opportunity to victimize themselves. We let them through, and the wackos will be laughed off stage, while the moderates will even everything out and keep the rest happy.
Look at the Iranian government after the Shah's exile and the Ayatollah's return for an example. Because of the suppression of conservative Muslim beliefs during Pahlavi's rule, everyone supported the most radical members and the most radical policies, and the first two presidents, who were moderates, tried constantly to maintain a society centered around rationale and balance. But the people voted for a theocracy, because the politicians were able to attain a stigma of the oppressed, and use it to their full benefit to further agendas as radical Islamists.
My opinion is this: there is nothing inherently wrong with religion; let's be honest here, we can't can't prove the non-existence of God any better than we an prove the existence of God, but politics is a dirty business, and religion has no place in it in terms of making decisions and guiding the state by a singular doctrine. I'm confident that we are inching towards a much more tolerable society in the regard to people, who were once second-class citizens, or even people unworthy to live, are now being accepted (or tolerated), and science is much more prevalent today and has made phenomenal progress as it stands. What remains is that we let extremism stagnate and distill on it own terms. If they isolate themselves from the rationality that defines modern civilization, they will cease to be relevant.
So sit back, and relax. I'm in no hurry.
I disagree. Don't get me wrong, I feel that Christianity is an important part of our culture on some level (and this is coming from a Jew/Agnostic/Deist), but the Constitution specifies a separation of Church and State for a reason. But, so long as we keep God out of our Government (again, separation of Church and State) and Schools (seriously, you have no idea how awkward it is to be raised Jewish and have Christianity pushed on you), I'm fine.reaper660 said:
Also, there's plenty of people one both sides (liberal and conservative, I mean) who bash each other, although it is interesting to see how the roles in that regard have switched with Obama's election (i.e, conservatives protesting, Fox backing them, NBC bashing them; just bizarre).
This "god bless america" crap hardly comes up where I live. I think the idea that America is becoming a Theocracy is ridiculous.
I hate religious controversy. It always turns into a giant argument in which both sides are equally stupid and wrong.
I hate religious controversy. It always turns into a giant argument in which both sides are equally stupid and wrong.
I know. I almost miss the days where Fox was the one calling protesters unamerican.Wouldukindly said: