An end to the Sandbox plague.

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Rangaman

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I love exploration-based games, I really do. I would just like to get that out there before the following statement: Sandboxes have become a plague on the industry.

They're everywhere, even when they are completely unnecessary. Steep is the best recent example that comes to mind. It's not my thing, but it looked fine as a standard collection of sporting minigames ala SSX Tricky. The sandbox component feels about as out of place as a treadmill in an iHop.

Sandboxes should only exist if they benefit the game in some way and actually make sense. I didn't buy The Witcher 3 just because it was an open-word game, I bought it because it was a good game. Adding a sandbox will not make your game sell. It's the concept of your game is what sells it. You didn't buy Assassin's Creed 2 for the open world, you bought it to bring out your hatred of people with un-stabbed necks.

There are games where the sandbox benefits the gameplay, like Just Cause, or Skyrim. But an uncessary or lazy open world is just the worst. This is something that needs to end. Publishers, Ubisoft especially, need to learn that a sandbox is not a selling point. I will not buy Days Gone because it's an open-world zombie game. That's like trying to sell me a cucumber sandwich made from Coles-brand white bread. I would buy if it had, say, unique gameplay, or a good story. But at the current rate, there is no sign of that. It comes across as "buy this game because it has a sandbox and zombies".

We don't need a generic sandpox, we need more games that aren't afraid of perhaps having a world that has structure and is not the size of Galatus' balls. Remember Half-Life 2? Or Mega Man X? Or any game that didn't require a sandbox to "make it fun"? We need more games like that, and less forced sandboxes.

Don't make them too linear though. I still have a bin full of the "linear empty spectacle" line of games.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Rangaman said:
Remember Half-Life 2?
The problem is that a good portion of the fickle market would slam a game like Half Life 2 if it were released today for being "too linear".
 

mad825

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slo said:
It is. Most people that "remember Half Life 2" haven't played it in a long long while and forgot how linear boring it is
Wait wait, HL2 is linear? Well no shit. I guess it's linear like Half-life (the original) and it's expansion Blue Shift, Opposing Force....And every other popular mods it has. It's boring? YMMV.

OP, I agree however it's the trend in gaming right now just like how FPSs were the thing back in the 90s/2000s. It's really WOWs fault for the current direction most games have gone.
 

Rangaman

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slo said:
Ambient_Malice said:
Rangaman said:
Remember Half-Life 2?
The problem is that a good portion of the fickle market would slam a game like Half Life 2 if it were released today for being "too linear".
It is. Most people that "remember Half Life 2" haven't played it in a long long while and forgot how linear and boring it is. Those vehicle sections were terrible. And everything up to Ravenholm was. And everything after they take all your guns away, leaving you with that stupid gravity gun as the only weapon.
You seem to have missed the point. I was arguing in favor of games that shirk a sandbox when it is unnecessary. Imagine if HL2 had an open world. Also, "boring". I would definitely argue that Half Life 2 is still a lot more engaging than modern shooters like Black Ops 2 and Battlefield 4, partially because it required actual intelligence from the player.

BTW, I don't think the modern market would burn Half-Life 2 for being too linear. DOOM seems to be doing pretty well, after all.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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slo said:
Ambient_Malice said:
Rangaman said:
Remember Half-Life 2?
The problem is that a good portion of the fickle market would slam a game like Half Life 2 if it were released today for being "too linear".
It is. Most people that "remember Half Life 2" haven't played it in a long long while and forgot how linear and boring it is. Those vehicle sections were terrible. And everything up to Ravenholm was. And everything after they take all your guns away, leaving you with that stupid gravity gun as the only weapon.
Half life 2 just doesn't hold up well. Half life 1 holds up better. The episodes hold up better too, but half life 2 naaa. The issue with it is that it is too linear. Not in the sense that it is a linear set of levels, but in the sense that the gamepaly doesn't have a lot of depth or diversity to it. (Seesaw puzzles for everyone!!)

But I digress. I am fine with the plague. It's like the locust are in town but I am a frog.
 

mad825

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slo said:
And this is precisely what I'm talking about. Neither in a long while, right?
You're going to have to divulge further. You are making no sense. I would like to have what you're having because you're clearly lacking any awareness.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Rangaman said:
Imagine if HL2 had an open world.
That was the entire point behind Homefront: The Revolution.

Rangaman said:
BTW, I don't think the modern market would burn Half-Life 2 for being too linear. DOOM seems to be doing pretty well, after all.
Doom 4 also has no story. A big factor with the "boo, hoo, this game is linear" whinining that started increasing in volume somewhere around 2010 was that games were both linear and story-driven. Half Life 2's "stand around and watch characters interact" stuff would be heavily attacked by the kind of people who praise Doom 4 for having barely any story.

All this said, I don't really have any issues with Half Life 2. There's nothing particularly wrong with the game. But I do think that it demonstrates the rock and hard place that game developers are in. There was a rumour that Half Life 3 might end up being an open world game. Such a game would get a mixed reception from people who are both "sick of linear CoD clones" and "sick of open world Far Cry clones".
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Rangaman said:
You didn't buy Assassin's Creed 2 for the open world, you bought it to bring out your hatred of people with un-stabbed necks.
I bought Assassin's Creed 2 for the open world actually.

Running around Italian cities is amazing and there's no cooler feeling than going to Florence or Venice on vacation and then finding your exact hotel room in the game because the historical town centers of those cities haven't changed in hundreds of years.

There's nothing wrong with open world games, it's not like you have to play all of them.
 

mad825

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slo said:
mad825 said:
slo said:
And this is precisely what I'm talking about. Neither in a long while, right?
You're going to have to divulge further. You are making no sense. I would like to have what you're having because you're clearly lacking any awareness.
Well, if your memories were more recent, you'd probably remeber that HL1 and HL2 do linearity in different ways and HL2 is not "as linear" as HL1. Because HL1 features quite a bit of exploration and backtracking, which was common to games of that time. HL2 got rid of all this and is just always forward. You're always on rails and never visit the same location twice. Which is a boring approach and it feels very tired nowadays.
HL1 has some retro appeal. HL2 is just an old modern game without much replay value.
Ugh. Its funny that two different locations constitutes a different gameplay design. Even so there are like two or three at most moments where you "back-track" and this exploration constitutes to "oh look, a power pack behind a rock". I'll throw your snarky comment right back at you, there are exploration segments in HL2 Did you not bother to explore the abandon houses?

Let me guess, you didn't bother to look inside there? Did you get the cache? Did you get all of the caches? I guess not.

Did you meet this guy?

Did you go in here?

Did you find this?and many...many more.


You thought the vehicle sections in HL2 are bad? Well I hope you enjoyed the tram ride in HL1

Nothing has really changed except for the theme, HL1 you're in a complex but HL2 you're exploring the world...And there's an actual plot.
 

FalloutJack

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*Looks up from the sandbox*

What? No, I'm having FUN here. It's not a plague.

Also, the break from sandboxing in this day and age would be DOOM.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Ezekiel said:
Open world is how I dream games to be. But the way open world games are now? Not a fan. It's always tedious mission structures segmented by bad cutscenes, and empty terrains or cities with lame grid plans.
Better than only playing games like this:


And this also includes games that have the same formula and does not have Military concept.