An Experience that I Would Like to Hear Opinions of
- Thread starter NateA42
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Perhaps it's some sort of country or industry specific thing, but giving anyone an honorific, gendered or otherwise, seems kind of odd to me (maybe because I'm such a disrespectful bastard) and certainly unnecessary.
"Yes?" or if I was feeling particularly generous, "Yes, how can I help?" is all they'd have got.
"Yes, they?"
"Sorry, they, do you need any..."
Lolwut?
Did you miss out some of the conversation that went on to the use of personal pronouns?
"Yes?" or if I was feeling particularly generous, "Yes, how can I help?" is all they'd have got.
So reading your post it seems they would prefer:
"Yes, they?"
"Sorry, they, do you need any..."
Lolwut?
Did you miss out some of the conversation that went on to the use of personal pronouns?
Looks like you encountered a narcissistic asshole. It happens.
I'd probably have responded with "My apologies, how can I help?" to the "I'm not a 'sir'." thing. If "they" continued to make a fuss over such a small slight I'd have told them to "fuck off". Then again, I'm in a position where I have that authority so your mileage may vary.
I'd probably have responded with "My apologies, how can I help?" to the "I'm not a 'sir'." thing. If "they" continued to make a fuss over such a small slight I'd have told them to "fuck off". Then again, I'm in a position where I have that authority so your mileage may vary.
I recently had the opposite problem. I suggested that if you don't know a transgender person's pronouns, use "they" when in doubt.
Then this person said that what I was doing was offensive because it erased the genders of transgender people. So I then explained that "if the transperson identifies as a man, use male pronouns, or female pronouns if they identify as a female".
This person then said that this was offensive because I was apparently making a distinction between "females and trans-females" and "males and trans-males". I then said that I was clarifying the difference between binary transpeople and non-binary transpeople, and said that transgender men and women were "real men and women".
I was then accused of being offensive yet again for saying "real men and women", and for saying "preferred pronouns" earlier in the discussion. The person said "I'm done educating you" and left...
I am a transgender person, I am used to explaining this stuff. I even shared this with other transgender friends and they all agreed that the person I argued with was being unnecessarily antagonistic. We even entertained the possibility that this person wasn't even transgender and was being Cartman from that (excellent) South Park episode.
No wonder people are sick of "SJW"s.
Then this person said that what I was doing was offensive because it erased the genders of transgender people. So I then explained that "if the transperson identifies as a man, use male pronouns, or female pronouns if they identify as a female".
This person then said that this was offensive because I was apparently making a distinction between "females and trans-females" and "males and trans-males". I then said that I was clarifying the difference between binary transpeople and non-binary transpeople, and said that transgender men and women were "real men and women".
I was then accused of being offensive yet again for saying "real men and women", and for saying "preferred pronouns" earlier in the discussion. The person said "I'm done educating you" and left...
I am a transgender person, I am used to explaining this stuff. I even shared this with other transgender friends and they all agreed that the person I argued with was being unnecessarily antagonistic. We even entertained the possibility that this person wasn't even transgender and was being Cartman from that (excellent) South Park episode.
No wonder people are sick of "SJW"s.
I used to work in retail and you're experience isn't entirely uncommon. I was in management and at least 50% of the complaints I dealt with were just customers being assholes about something.
You were 100% in the right and They were in the wrong.
You can't use "they" to address someone as the individual in the OP seemed to be expecting. "Excuse me They, can I help you with anything?"
You were 100% in the right and They were in the wrong.
Basically correct, however, use of "they" as a singular pronoun is only appropriate when used to refer to a third party. For example: "Look at that person giving the poor sales assistant a hard time. They must be an asshole."Silvanus said:
You can't use "they" to address someone as the individual in the OP seemed to be expecting. "Excuse me They, can I help you with anything?"
Not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts. Maybe they had experienced unpleasant treatment before and that might well be a factor in how they responded in this instance. However, while I may sympathise with the reason for their disposition, if you behave like an asshole, you are an asshole, regardless of circumstance.Rosiv said:
*Sigh* Alright, let's do this...
Yeah, that particular individual was being a little bit rash, I wager they were probably having a bad day, or otherwise were in a bad mood (they could also have been playing a prank on you at the expense of non-binary people). Some non-binary people however do experience a specific brand of dysphoria linked to improper pronoun use, and since the English language doesn't really have another good gender neutral pronoun set, "They, them, and their;" are kinda the best we've got (many people, including myself, believe that we should work on correcting that, but seeing as how society at large is still mostly ignorant of the very existence of non-binary genders, I'd say that's still a ways off).
As someone who identifies their gender as not fully binary themselves but doesn't really experience any kind of pronoun-specific dysphoria (call me a guy, call me a girl, it's all about the same for me) I feel like I'm not 100% qualified to talk on the subject, but I do tend to try and air on the side of caution when I don't know someone's identified gender, I'm not saying that you were in the wrong here, I'm just saying that they were probably exasperated from being constantly misgendered, and it may simply have been the straw that broke the camel's back (provided, again, that they weren't just pulling some kind of tasteless joke at the expense of non-binary people, you'd be surprised how often that happens).
Also, quick tip after reading some of these other posts: Never, ever, eeeeeeeeeeeever refer to a Trans* person as "It."
That is pretty much THE most transphobic thing you can say to someone, excluding the "T" Word.
Yeah, that particular individual was being a little bit rash, I wager they were probably having a bad day, or otherwise were in a bad mood (they could also have been playing a prank on you at the expense of non-binary people). Some non-binary people however do experience a specific brand of dysphoria linked to improper pronoun use, and since the English language doesn't really have another good gender neutral pronoun set, "They, them, and their;" are kinda the best we've got (many people, including myself, believe that we should work on correcting that, but seeing as how society at large is still mostly ignorant of the very existence of non-binary genders, I'd say that's still a ways off).
As someone who identifies their gender as not fully binary themselves but doesn't really experience any kind of pronoun-specific dysphoria (call me a guy, call me a girl, it's all about the same for me) I feel like I'm not 100% qualified to talk on the subject, but I do tend to try and air on the side of caution when I don't know someone's identified gender, I'm not saying that you were in the wrong here, I'm just saying that they were probably exasperated from being constantly misgendered, and it may simply have been the straw that broke the camel's back (provided, again, that they weren't just pulling some kind of tasteless joke at the expense of non-binary people, you'd be surprised how often that happens).
Also, quick tip after reading some of these other posts: Never, ever, eeeeeeeeeeeever refer to a Trans* person as "It."
That is pretty much THE most transphobic thing you can say to someone, excluding the "T" Word.
Ignoring the whole "They were probably just an asshole" thing, I find it fascinating that they wanted to be referred to as "they". It really isn't any better than being called "it" both are devoid of any real human connotations. They can just as easily refer to say a packet of chips than a person.
Plus it kinda conjures up this old gem.
Plus it kinda conjures up this old gem.
What a *****.
My brother in-law is also a transgender, which makes him my sister in-law. And I still confuse 'him' with 'her' and 'he' and 'she'.
I could say "Hey, Chris looks great today, that dress looks really good on him, but I don't think she'll be able to walk in those heels for a very long time. Oh, well, his feet, not mine. Come on, girl, we're missing the bus!" And he wouldn't care.
My brother in-law is also a transgender, which makes him my sister in-law. And I still confuse 'him' with 'her' and 'he' and 'she'.
I could say "Hey, Chris looks great today, that dress looks really good on him, but I don't think she'll be able to walk in those heels for a very long time. Oh, well, his feet, not mine. Come on, girl, we're missing the bus!" And he wouldn't care.
'They' does have human connotations:wulf3n said:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/they
Next time just go, "Excuse me, misssssss..." and check their facial reaction for the cue to add "...sster" if necessary to placate their pathetic, insecure sense of self.
The customer was just being a jerk and make a mountain of a molehill. I don't claim to have any experience of what it's like to be transgender, but you shouldn't snap at people just because they made a mistake. Otherwise, not many people are going to respect your identity if you immediately try to victimize yourself over a perceived fault with the English language.
Anyone choosing to be that immediately hostile is an asshole. Doesn't have anything to do with being persecuted or a past trauma, they're just an asshole.
Unfortunately, some people are like this.
There's not much you can do about it, ultimately, people who identify as transgender make up a very small minority of people, and there's really not much to be gained by overhauling your default communication in order to accommodate the small minority of people who identify as transgender that are offended by such things.
More people are probably going to take offence to a gender neutral greeting than a gendered one, as at the current moment in time, it's often implied that gender neutral terms are specifically reserved for people who identity as transgender to begin with.
So, frankly, you should just cut your losses and accept they're being ridiculous.
There's not much you can do about it, ultimately, people who identify as transgender make up a very small minority of people, and there's really not much to be gained by overhauling your default communication in order to accommodate the small minority of people who identify as transgender that are offended by such things.
More people are probably going to take offence to a gender neutral greeting than a gendered one, as at the current moment in time, it's often implied that gender neutral terms are specifically reserved for people who identity as transgender to begin with.
So, frankly, you should just cut your losses and accept they're being ridiculous.
A certain percentage of people are transgender, and unfortunately a certain percentage of people are assholes. You seem to have encountered one of the individuals who falls in the center of this venn diagram. Unfortunate, but I would not worry about it if I were you.
Thanks for the feedback.
Also I've met asshole customers before lol, this one just made me feel the most confused. I don't know why but people love to annoy me on my break even after I've told them so. One person even wanted me to cut the line to get him a side that he forgot.
As for the use of honorifics I always use them because I have always been taught to use them, also it is a sign of respect and most customer are older than myself. The store owner still comments on how I call him Mr. _____ opposed to his first name. As far as not using them goes if I really can't tell I just avoid it.
Also I've met asshole customers before lol, this one just made me feel the most confused. I don't know why but people love to annoy me on my break even after I've told them so. One person even wanted me to cut the line to get him a side that he forgot.
As for the use of honorifics I always use them because I have always been taught to use them, also it is a sign of respect and most customer are older than myself. The store owner still comments on how I call him Mr. _____ opposed to his first name. As far as not using them goes if I really can't tell I just avoid it.
Not to be rude or anything, but I'd be pretty sad if someone addressed me as they because they knew I was transgendered. :/ I'm totally fine with "she", since that's still my official + physical sex, and "he" is a no-brainer -as a FtM trans- but calling me "they" or perhaps especially "zie" (or whatever it is) would be sort of... well, it'd make me a bit sad. Especially if it's directly to me, just go "you" if nothing else.DizzyChuggernaut said:
That said, I'd just tell them I'm fine with either of the others, and that they should just address me with whichever of the two works for them.
Regardless, I'd say that, if in doubt, ask. From what I've experienced, everyone has their own preferences. That person was way out of line, though, like, I don't even get the logic behind that. Crazy people be crazy.
OT: I don't know what the issue the person that OP spoke to had, but you did nothing wrong. Some argue (though I haven't seen anyone excuse it, simply mention it as a possibility) that the person might've had a bad day, but I never got that. You've got to be fairly mean to take out a bad mood on someone working within the service industry, I've had bad days (including waiting hour after hour for flights, taking a flight somewhere, then having to take the flight somewhere else to get where I was supposed to get, and them then losing my baggage, all in the same night+day), and I've never seen any reason to be rude to people working there, even at the airport.
Regardless, I think that people who get angry over things like that are scary. You can't expect everyone to understand your situation without informing them of it, and people who get insulted that easily and react like that can be fairly hard to reason with.
People where I work have literally been chased to the staff doors while on their break, despite other staff members being closer.NateA42 said:
Customers are just generally terrible.
Well, I'd only avoid it if you get it wrong the first time, then just continue on with talking to them without using any.NateA42 said:
Or if you're uncertain of the person's gender in the first place.