An introductory guide to the world of PC gaming, including DIY and maintenance (with usergroup!)

[Lovely Mixture]

AMD instead of Nvidia, because they outperform Nvidia and are cheaper.

I agree that AMD has cheaper models.
But on performance it varies, it usually depends whose best card has been released last.

Nvidia's most recent card is the GTX 780 (which is NOT their best card) and outperforms all but the most recent Radeon HD (Radeon HD 7990).

The Radeon HD 7990(AMD's best card) outperforms the GTX TITAN (Nvidia's best, released 2 months earlier)

I'm doing some research in anticipation of building my first PC when I have some money saved up for it. This has been very useful, I can't wait until more information is posted.

Can I get some opinions on the Intel vs AMD debate? It seems like everyone says Intel makes better processors, but there's nothing wrong with AMD ones. It confuses me a bit, since AMD processors cost half as much as Intel ones for what look like the same specs.

It comes down to what you want to support.

Intel and AMD both have good models.
Intel's are said to be cheaper.
Intel has a reputation for unscrupulous business practices (not allowing shops to sell other processors in some places).

 

[-Dragmire-]

I'll also add that the bigger the power supply the better. High end graphics cards are starting to require a 700+ PSU and as time goes by, everything else will as well. You can never have too much power. With the new graphics engines coming out I would recommend a 750+Watt PSU to avoid having to buy a new one when you upgrade for next gen as I highly doubt 550+ will be viable much longer. This way when you go to upgrade, in a couple years, you'll save yourself at least $50-100 at that time making your upgrade cheaper.

I would also highly recommend a quad core CPU and MoBo.

Edit: it would probably be a good idea to sticky this thread with the current situation regarding consoles ATM. Would probably cut down on threads about wanting to step into PC gaming.

I just bought an upgrade to my current card and it, weirdly enough, takes less power than the one I have now(lower heat limit though)! Looks like I won't need the power splitter for the new card either.

current: GTX 260 (core 216 version)

upgrade: GTX 660 (arrives tomorrow, can't wait!)

I get the feeling the 260 is just a power hog though. Either that or cards have gotten more energy efficient since I was last shopping for video cards years ago.

All that said, I'm not arguing your point, more power is always a nice safety net for upgrading.

A quality PSU that fits the hardware. I just put this configuration in a PSU calculator and it returned that a 430W quality PSU would do. So get a 480W or 500W one. Preferably one from beQuiet, since they stand for quality. And despite what many write and believe, it's not the wattage that determines whether a PSU will do good or cause serious problems.
The thing is that if a PSU fails, it can damage all other components and you'll have to get a whole new PC.

A +700W PSU can easily fail, where a 480W PSU does fine. It's NOT the wattage, it's the design and quality of the components.

Unfortunately, some video cards require 500-550 watt minimum.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Yo, Drunk.

I propose making a usergroup for building PCs and general computer decisions. For knowledge and more in depth computer talk, we have the Linux group here, but it really is just a few of us, so we can help teach about computers in there (actually a project, but we procrastinated on this one a ton), while we have a group dedicated for building. Just something to consider.

You're absolutely right. I'll get on that. But the words "master race" aren't going anywhere near it. That shit does us no favors whatsoever. Might as well call it "Dektopyian Brotherhood".

I'll make the group if you've got other things to do.

And come into the Linux group! We need more comrades!

You've got my blessing, I'm eating dinner right now : )

I don't know why I'm not in the Linux group, my PC is a triple-boot of Windows 7, Slackware, and a Hackintosh of Snow Leopard. And one of my medical clients runs a Fedora server that I maintain. Do you guys talk about distros and bleeding edge kernel development and stuff? I have a freakin' Linux fish on the back of my car, I might as well be in the group : )

It's a tech group for when the tech gets a bit too out there to post in Off Topic. We also tend to have fun in there from time to time, so that's that. We also really turn active when we like sometimes, but the group's never been killed off. x-D

We (that really means me) also have a Linux beginners guide and a "how computers work guide" in the work, but school ensued for a good number of us.. I'm getting time to work on it after exams this week, and I think we can start massively collaborating this summer for the other guide. :-D

i might have to take a look at that guide, i have ubuntu dual booted (just got it a couple weeks back) on my hard drive and i didn't mess with it too much yet (most my games are windows only, so haven't had a need to test the waters yet, but i'd like to use it to my advantage if possible or worth it.)

 

[Signa]

Can I get some opinions on the Intel vs AMD debate? It seems like everyone says Intel makes better processors, but there's nothing wrong with AMD ones. It confuses me a bit, since AMD processors cost half as much as Intel ones for what look like the same specs.

I suggest looking at Tomshardware's charts to make your own conclusions on that debate, because you're going to get a lot of fanboyism mixed in.

My take on it though, based on every chart I've seen in the last 4 years (it's been about a year or so since I've looked myself) is that, generally speaking, for gamers AMD is a better choice. It offers top performance VS Intel chips with only a few FPS differences in most games, but usually at half the cost. The catch is, if you find yourself using your PC for any sort of processor intensive programs, Intel blows AMD's best offerings out of the water. No really, Intel's mid-ranged processors beat the shit out of AMD's best by 33% or more if you're doing things like video encoding or file compression. The last chart I was seeing placed Intel's i5 processors on the same price range on AMD's top, and still held true to form on performance. I don't know what AMD has done to close that gap (and I'm too lazy to check right now), but I've always been an Intel guy and I actually do a lot of processor things with my PC beyond gaming.

 

[FoolKiller]

I have a question! Why is that to avoid the DRM, no used games, and always online policies would someone get a PC. PC has had all of that for years.

The problem isn't that people don't want any of those negatives. But the current rumours for the consoles has all of those negatives and the negatives that are inherent with consoles. It's the worst of both worlds problem. I am also looking at jumping ship after console gaming for 32 years.

 

[mbarker]

I am a recent PC convert and this was informative I'm starting up on my old desk top I don't feel the need for an upgrade right now. I just got sick of the consols and most software publisher BS. If there only was a way to avoid DRM, I want the plug and play model to come back.

 

[TehCookie]

I have a question! Why is that to avoid the DRM, no used games, and always online policies would someone get a PC. PC has had all of that for years.

The problem isn't that people don't want any of those negatives. But the current rumours for the consoles has all of those negatives and the negatives that are inherent with consoles. It's the worst of both worlds problem. I am also looking at jumping ship after console gaming for 32 years.

So far you have given the best answer to that, and you also sound like the only console gamer to respond.

 

[A Silent Enigma]

Intel instead of AMD, since they (for some time now) outperform AMD.
AMD instead of Nvidia, because they outperform Nvidia and are cheaper.
An SSD?
A quality PSU that fits the hardware. I just put this configuration in a PSU calculator and it returned that a 430W quality PSU would do. So get a 480W or 500W one. Preferably one from beQuiet, since they stand for quality. And despite what many write and believe, it's not the wattage that determines whether a PSU will do good or cause serious problems.
The thing is that if a PSU fails, it can damage all other components and you'll have to get a whole new PC.

A +700W PSU can easily fail, where a 480W PSU does fine. It's NOT the wattage, it's the design and quality of the components.

My recommendation (for you):
beQuiet Straight Power E9 500W
or
beQuiet Straight Power E9 480W CM
Enough power (even for upgrades later on): both (latter with a small advantage)
Reliable quality-PSU: both
Low noise: both
Cable-Management: only the latter

Ahh, ok. Thank you for your help, it's much appreciated. Looks like I'll swap out AMD for Intel and go for the 500w beQuiet psu. Once again, ta.

 

[afroebob]

I have a question! Why is that to avoid the DRM, no used games, and always online policies would someone get a PC. PC has had all of that for years.

The problem isn't that people don't want any of those negatives. But the current rumours for the consoles has all of those negatives and the negatives that are inherent with consoles. It's the worst of both worlds problem. I am also looking at jumping ship after console gaming for 32 years.

So far you have given the best answer to that, and you also sound like the only console gamer to respond.

Well, from someone who has been, over the last year or 2, going more and more from console to PC, I would say that while there are no used games, there are Steam Sales which, to be honest, are a lot better than used games. Want to play Alan Wake? Its 3 bucks right now.

The DRM is more up to the companies/publishers/retailers, some have intrusive DRM but most don't (I've actually only had DRM troubles one time, and part of it was because I fucked something up, not to mention every damn game has a crack if you care about DRM) and when it comes to always online DRM it seems like outside of Diablo and SimShitty all of the games that used to have that have gotten rid of it.

I'm not going to say it is perfect, and there are things that consoles have that PC doesn't, but thats a double edged sword, PC has things consoles don't. Like I said before they have Steam Sales (makes gaming WAY cheaper in the long run), upgradable hardware, better graphics, sharper controls, multiple displays if your into that, soon the Oculus Rift which will be a lot of fun, a better indie scene, entire genres of games that just don't work as well on consoles (most notably MMORPGs and RTS/Turn Based Strategy), etc. etc. etc. and I would say that, for most people, if you had to chose between PC and console the PC's perks and the recent pitfalls that are coming from the console side of the industry would make PC gaming the superior platform.

 

[Joccaren]

Yo, Drunk.

I propose making a usergroup for building PCs and general computer decisions.

I heartily agree. A PC building usergroup would be great for those of us who enjoy discussing hardware and such. Let us all know when its up =D

 

[Soopy]

I would be interested in a user group. I have spent the past few weeks researching parts for my up comming build.

This is what I have on my list thus far:

GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 770 Superclocked 2GB < Waiting for the 4gb version.
CPU: Intel Core i5 3570K
MotherBoard: ASRock Z77 Extreme6
Ram: G.Skill Trident X F3-2400C10D-8GTX 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3
PSU: Xigmatek Vector S 850W 80+ Silver


I will run a 128gb SSD for my OS install and a couple of favorite games, and a 1tb HDD for everything else.
Are there any suggestions you can make?

 

[Ambitiousmould]

OP, you may just be the most helpful human being on earth right now. I am jumping ship to PC and this is really helpful, cheers. If I combine this with my PC Purchasing Consultant (a friend who is a PC gamer) then I should have no problems. Thanks.

 

[kingthrall]

this is a very useful read and should be stickied. Its nice to know there are people who post useful things on these forums other than the same "what is the best" threads.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I don't know what AMD has done to close that gap (and I'm too lazy to check right now)

To use the technical term, they fixed their shit. When AMD designed the Piledriver cores they fixed as much as they could with Bulldozer short of introducing a new architecture. So, while Piledriver still has what some consider the fundamental architectural flaws of Bulldozer they fixed most of the design cockups... The end result being that AMD CPUs got a lot beefier by (a) increased efficiency and (b) not being generally shit.

Basically, AMD CPUs are back where they used to be: A good budget choice for people who aren't constantly running CPU intensive applications. Unless you plan to overclock, that is... Unlocked Ivy Bridge CPUs shit all over Piledriver CPUs for how well they OC (people have been pushing i5s to 5Ghz+ on HSF).

Of course, AMD is starting to roll out their new Steamroller architecture (Jaguar CPUs are steamroller)... and only time will tell if those are any good. Also, word has it that in about 12-18 months AMD will replace the 28nm steamroller CPUs with 20nm CPUs (no word on if that's gonna be a new architecture or a follow on of steamroller) and it'll be interesting to see which way AMD go with that - do they go 'raw power' or do they do what Intel did with Ivy Bridge and try to balance power and efficiency?

 

[TehCookie]

I have a question! Why is that to avoid the DRM, no used games, and always online policies would someone get a PC. PC has had all of that for years.

The problem isn't that people don't want any of those negatives. But the current rumours for the consoles has all of those negatives and the negatives that are inherent with consoles. It's the worst of both worlds problem. I am also looking at jumping ship after console gaming for 32 years.

So far you have given the best answer to that, and you also sound like the only console gamer to respond.

Well, from someone who has been, over the last year or 2, going more and more from console to PC, I would say that while there are no used games, there are Steam Sales which, to be honest, are a lot better than used games. Want to play Alan Wake? Its 3 bucks right now.

The DRM is more up to the companies/publishers/retailers, some have intrusive DRM but most don't (I've actually only had DRM troubles one time, and part of it was because I fucked something up, not to mention every damn game has a crack if you care about DRM) and when it comes to always online DRM it seems like outside of Diablo and SimShitty all of the games that used to have that have gotten rid of it.

I'm not going to say it is perfect, and there are things that consoles have that PC doesn't, but thats a double edged sword, PC has things consoles don't. Like I said before they have Steam Sales (makes gaming WAY cheaper in the long run), upgradable hardware, better graphics, sharper controls, multiple displays if your into that, soon the Oculus Rift which will be a lot of fun, a better indie scene, entire genres of games that just don't work as well on consoles (most notably MMORPGs and RTS/Turn Based Strategy), etc. etc. etc. and I would say that, for most people, if you had to chose between PC and console the PC's perks and the recent pitfalls that are coming from the console side of the industry would make PC gaming the superior platform.

That's what a lot of people previously mentioned, however PC pros haven't changed. If that didn't convince them to switch before why would it now? FoolKiller answered that.

Then again I'm bitter because I switched to consoles when PCs got DRM since I couldn't stand all the issues I've had with it, and now there's no (legal) way to escape it. Though I have to disagree with your Steam sales are better since they aren't any cheaper. Although I live in a shithole where due to the economic depression everything is dirt cheap so that may be part of it. I had friend who lives far away come to visit and remark that everything was $10-$20 cheaper.

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

You've been summoned!

A Challenger has appeared!

Big update, everyone. The PC Builders and Hardware Group [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/PC-Builders-and-Hardware-Group] is now live and open to all members. Detailed information about the group can be found there, and should hopefully be a great place for people to learn and for Hardware/rig building to be discussed. I could use an admin, I don't have all the time in the world to ban bots and griefers (though I will be there often) and apparently I'm accountable for all goings on in the group. Thank you so much to everyone who's supported this thread and offered the advice about creating the usergroup, as it's now a reality. We're closer now to the Escapist being a great place for those new to PC gaming to get their feet wet and receive some friendly advice.

As far as this thread and guide itself is concerned, I have the rough draft written of part 3 and my supportive wife is going to give it a read when she gets home. A spoiler from it I should mention now is the possibility of waiting until the next-gen consoles come out, which should move the bar quite a bit and at least make the i5 and i7 (or AMD equivalent) cheaper for those of you on a budget. It should be posted either tonight US eastern, or tomorrow at the latest.

I'm also considering changing the title of this thread to remove any reference to the console exodus that appears to be happening. Just pretty much make it all about what it's really about, that being the guide and the beginning steps towards becoming a PC gamer. If this seems like a good idea, please let me know. I get the feeling that the Sony and Microsoft references detract from the spirit and nature of the thread, but I'm not sure.

Another thank you to everyone who's offered their thanks, the knowledge that I'm actually helping even one person is the fuel that drives me to continue working on this guide and the usergroup. You folks are great. Hopefully I'll see some of you in the usergroup!

 

[WeepingAngels]

I have a question! Why is that to avoid the DRM, no used games, and always online policies would someone get a PC. PC has had all of that for years.

If people want to get into PC for a different reason OP's post is helpful, though I do have one thing to add: Google is your friend. If you have a problem or a question, google it and chances are you will find an answer.

I know, it's crazy isn't.

"Fuck Xbone"
"Praise Steam"

Oh right, Steam has sales. Well Steam sales really aren't that great outside of the summer and Christmas sales and let's face it, after a few years of those you own everything on sale anyway. The daily deals are really junk most of the time or they are also games you already own from the big sales.

Last time I bought a game on Steam was 6 months ago and before that it was another 6 months.

Further, I would say that all the praise of Steam is probably what gave Microsoft the motivation to do activation codes on consoles. I also can't forget to mention that if Microsoft chased you to Windows, they still won.

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

I have a question! Why is that to avoid the DRM, no used games, and always online policies would someone get a PC. PC has had all of that for years.

If people want to get into PC for a different reason OP's post is helpful, though I do have one thing to add: Google is your friend. If you have a problem or a question, google it and chances are you will find an answer.

I know, it's crazy isn't.

"Fuck Xbone"
"Praise Steam"

Oh right, Steam has sales. Well Steam sales really aren't that great outside of the summer and Christmas sales and let's face it, after a few years of those you own everything on sale anyway. The daily deals are really junk most of the time or they are also games you already own from the big sales.

Last time I bought a game on Steam was 6 months ago and before that it was another 6 months.

Further, I would say that all the praise of Steam is probably what gave Microsoft the motivation to do activation codes on consoles. I also can't forget to mention that if Microsoft chased you to Windows, they still won.

You speak as if Steam is synonymous with video games on the PC. I know Valve would sure as hell love to be the Xbox Live of the PC, and I have problems with it, but the whole point is that you have complete control and options. Don't like DRM? Don't use Steam or support those specific titles, it's not DRM on your system. Don't like Steam? Buy from the developers directly, GOG, GreenManGaming, the various bundles, or the boxed retail copies that don't use Steamworks. Don't want to use keyboard and mouse? Use your 360 controller. Control how your game looks, how it runs, and most of the time aspects of it that only the developers could do on console.

And even in the defense of Steam, the sales aren't crap, period. When I got Dragon Age Ultimate for 5 bucks, Batman AC with all DLC for 7 bucks, and Borderlands 2 for 12 bucks, I didn't get shit games or ripped off. And is it really so bad that a sale rolls around and there's little to pick from because you've already paid pennies on the dollar for the hundreds of games available? The active support and frontpaging of indies should be its own argument too, compared to Microsoft's "no publisher? Fuck you" policy.

 

[WeepingAngels]

I have a question! Why is that to avoid the DRM, no used games, and always online policies would someone get a PC. PC has had all of that for years.

If people want to get into PC for a different reason OP's post is helpful, though I do have one thing to add: Google is your friend. If you have a problem or a question, google it and chances are you will find an answer.

I know, it's crazy isn't.

"Fuck Xbone"
"Praise Steam"

Oh right, Steam has sales. Well Steam sales really aren't that great outside of the summer and Christmas sales and let's face it, after a few years of those you own everything on sale anyway. The daily deals are really junk most of the time or they are also games you already own from the big sales.

Last time I bought a game on Steam was 6 months ago and before that it was another 6 months.

Further, I would say that all the praise of Steam is probably what gave Microsoft the motivation to do activation codes on consoles. I also can't forget to mention that if Microsoft chased you to Windows, they still won.

You speak as if Steam is synonymous with video games on the PC. I know Valve would sure as hell love to be the Xbox Live of the PC, and I have problems with it, but the whole point is that you have complete control and options. Don't like DRM? Don't use Steam or support those specific titles, it's not DRM on your system. Don't like Steam? Buy from the developers directly, GOG, GreenManGaming, the various bundles, or the boxed retail copies that don't use Steamworks. Don't want to use keyboard and mouse? Use your 360 controller. Control how your game looks, how it runs, and most of the time aspects of it that only the developers could do on console.

And even in the defense of Steam, the sales aren't crap, period. When I got Dragon Age Ultimate for 5 bucks, Batman AC with all DLC for 7 bucks, and Borderlands 2 for 12 bucks, I didn't get shit games or ripped off. And is it really so bad that a sale rolls around and there's little to pick from because you've already paid pennies on the dollar for the hundreds of games available? The active support and frontpaging of indies should be its own argument too, compared to Microsoft's "no publisher? Fuck you" policy.

Steam is synonymous with PC gaming. Steam is much larger than any other DD service you mention and many retail games are tied to one of the DD service. Why run from the Xbone DRM to a PC DD service with similar DRM?

No, the sales don't suck but the games on sale do suck. No one is going to complain that a game is 75% off but how many times have they tried to sell me Oblivion GOTY? I only need it once and I bought it long ago. Most of the games on sale today have been on sale so many times that anyone who wanted them, probably already has them. I stand by what I said about their Daily Deals, they stink. I understand that some people love indie games and for those people Daily Deals are probably pretty good. I don't want another puzzle game, another 8 bit platformer or another ugly game where "art style" is the best feature.

If you want to replace your console with PC gaming then you are going to want to use Windows. People acting like PC gaming is a rescue from the greed machine of Microsoft are fooling themselves.