And thus concludes Game of Thrones season 6.

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I've been lukewarm about the season as a whole but damn it the last two episodes were really bloody good. That was the best season finale that the show's done by far.

I think season 6 has been better than season 5 (season 4 is still the best) taken as a whole but the pet hates I have about the show in contrast to the books have been particularly egregious, especially since everyone seems to be able to instantly teleport everywhere and the characters all seem to know what's just happened 500 miles away. How the fuck is Cersei the Queen? She has literally no plausible claim to the throne at all! (and she wan't even crowned by a high septon, she's not a Queen she's just a ***** with a metal hat! How did Kevan Lannister allow this? Why have the Tyrell troops in the city not done anything?)

It's seperate enough for me to not care too much and I'm interested to see how many of the reveals and major events are going to be in "The Winds of Winter". R+L=J and Sandor Clegane being alive might well be left mysterious, I feel like the show put them in there for fanservice rather than because they actually matter to the plot. Hodor's name reveal will totally be in there, it's far too clever and devastating to not be. Cersei's revenge will probably happen in some way... though I hope the 9 year old Tommen of the books doesn't kill himself, the thought of that makes me really uncomfortable... which means it'll probably happen I suppose.

Hopefully the story in Dorne will be less stupid, Arya's time in Braavos will have a much more satisfying payoff, Rickon won't get killed off so unceremoniously, Jon Snow won't be a complete idiot and Daenerys won't keep effortlessly solving every problem by glaring at people and then setting things on fire.

Kevan Lannister is dead, he was in the Sept when it blew up.

And she is pretty much the only Noble alive in King's Landing right now. All the "Baratheon" children are dead.

And it was also a hostile take over if you can call it that.

 

[K12]

snip

Kevan Lannister is dead, he was in the Sept when it blew up.

And she is pretty much the only Noble alive in King's Landing right now. All the "Baratheon" children are dead.

And it was also a hostile take over if you can call it that.

Oh yeah of course he was duh.

Her reign wouldn't be recognised by literally any other house, probably not even the other branches of the Lannister family. It's kind of surprising there aren't enough Sparrows around the rest of the city to retaliate. Anyway it's not going to last long and she almost certainly won't be considered to have ever been the offical monarch (though if Daenerys becomes Queen it's possible that Tommen, Joffrey and Robert's reigns will be considered to have never been offical either)

The person in Westeros with the best claim to the throne is Gendry!

Probably the best example is with the books being "one that critics authoritian politics and respects the values of ideals in a fallen world", ideals in ASOIAF got Rob and John killed, Sansa thinking Joffrey as a goof prince while authoritian politics being the main focus of the first book and never really questioned since there's no actual alternative in that time period with the ongoing war, the closest might be "war is hell but it's one of the most basic of ideas.

Suggesting ideals can be blinding/binding/fatal is not the same as criticizing "idealism" or promoting authoritarian violence. That's the same kind of shallow analysis that had nitwits claiming "Mad Men" was "The most sexist show on television" because it portrayed an era accurately.

My take on the show's "message" about idealism and morality has always been that being in the right is pointless if you aren't also able to stay in control... however you often spend so much effort to keep control that you aren't able to do any lasting good.

Ned Stark (and Jon Snow to a lesser extent) err in one direction, Daenerys flirts with erring in the other direction and Tyrion manages to achieve a good balance but is held back by his personal issues and the fact that everyone assumes the worst of him because of how he looks.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

snip

Kevan Lannister is dead, he was in the Sept when it blew up.

And she is pretty much the only Noble alive in King's Landing right now. All the "Baratheon" children are dead.

And it was also a hostile take over if you can call it that.

Oh yeah of course he was duh.

Her reign wouldn't be recognised by literally any other house, probably not even the other branches of the Lannister family. It's kind of surprising there aren't enough Sparrows around the rest of the city to retaliate. Anyway it's not going to last long and she almost certainly won't be considered to have ever been the offical monarch (though if Daenerys becomes Queen it's possible that Tommen, Joffrey and Robert's reigns will be considered to have never been offical either)

The person in Westeros with the best claim to the throne is Gendry!

Well that is the point. She is pretty much the Queen of Nothing.

Only King's Landing and Casterly Rock.

To the South Dorne, Tyrells, and Dany's army composed of Dothraki and Iron Borne.

ANd of course the North will never bow down to a Lannister monarch after all the Lannisters have done to the North.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

My take on the show's "message" about idealism and morality has always been that being in the right is pointless if you aren't also able to stay in control... however you often spend so much effort to keep control that you aren't able to do any lasting good.

The show doesn't really HAVE a "message". A message implies thematic depth, and the show has none that it didn't take from the books. Adaptation decay has ensured that whatever spirit of the novels it accidentally captured early on has been well and truly destroyed at this point.

Ned Stark (and Jon Snow to a lesser extent) err in one direction, Daenerys flirts with erring in the other direction and Tyrion manages to achieve a good balance but is held back by his personal issues and the fact that everyone assumes the worst of him because of how he looks.

Ned's code of honor and personal rigidity made him vulnerable to political gamesmanship that he never truly understood, yes. He put his faith in other people because he came from a society where faithfulness and being true to one's word were valued very highly (The North). This ultimately results in his death. Robb echoes this later when he marries Jeyne Westerling for honor's sake, and is undone by Tywin's machinations. The superficial lesson is "Honor is stupid and gets you killed". However, it's Stark "honor" and the power still held by their name that foments rebellion and sympathy throughout the North in book 5. It's what causes "Manderley's Meat Pies" and "The North Remembers". It's why Stannis is able to rouse the support of the Northern tribes, and why his snowbound and starving army might not be as doomed as it seems...Winterfell is full to bursting of Stark sympathizers. If you want a more show oriented bent, the Stark legacy is what drives the loyalty of House Mormont and the eventual re-stabilization of the Northern factions under Jon's banner.

The Lannisters, for all Tywin's successful scheming, are on the brink of calamitous collapse.

George is very interested in subverting heroic tradition and standard fantasy tropes, but the novels are not "mean spirited" or interested in violence for the sake of violence. The messaging isn't "Good people always meet foul ends" or "Might makes right". It's complex. It's nuanced.

In the show it's all quips n' explosions n' stone cold mugging for the camera. It's a farce.

 

[MCerberus]

snip

Kevan Lannister is dead, he was in the Sept when it blew up.

And she is pretty much the only Noble alive in King's Landing right now. All the "Baratheon" children are dead.

And it was also a hostile take over if you can call it that.

Oh yeah of course he was duh.

Her reign wouldn't be recognised by literally any other house, probably not even the other branches of the Lannister family. It's kind of surprising there aren't enough Sparrows around the rest of the city to retaliate. Anyway it's not going to last long and she almost certainly won't be considered to have ever been the offical monarch (though if Daenerys becomes Queen it's possible that Tommen, Joffrey and Robert's reigns will be considered to have never been offical either)

The person in Westeros with the best claim to the throne is Gendry!

Well that is the point. She is pretty much the Queen of Nothing.

Only King's Landing and Casterly Rock.

To the South Dorne, Tyrells, and Dany's army composed of Dothraki and Iron Borne.

ANd of course the North will never bow down to a Lannister monarch after all the Lannisters have done to the North.

Probably not Casterly Rock either. Her brother is probably supremely pissed and has been given a loophole out of the Kingsguard. Jamie's, at this point, Lord of Casterly Rock and probably sees a 'debt' owed by Cersei.

And a Lannister always pays their debts.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

This episode was super predictable, a lot of the script could have been directly pulled from a reddit forumite's bad fanfic.

If you and your friend circle foresaw Cersei blowing up the Sept and with it causing the deaths of 7 major characters, to be followed by the death of another, then I absolutely take my hat off to you; I certainly didn't, and I've also read the books.

... But honestly, the direction, score, acting &c. of the episode were absolutely spot on. My only gripe is that the pacing seemed a tad frantic, with barely enough time to process one seismic event before another happened. The Sept is a smouldering ruin and then suddenly we're off to the North and elsewhere. Other than that, simply exceptional TV, and about the best possible setup for the new season.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

snip

Kevan Lannister is dead, he was in the Sept when it blew up.

And she is pretty much the only Noble alive in King's Landing right now. All the "Baratheon" children are dead.

And it was also a hostile take over if you can call it that.

Oh yeah of course he was duh.

Her reign wouldn't be recognised by literally any other house, probably not even the other branches of the Lannister family. It's kind of surprising there aren't enough Sparrows around the rest of the city to retaliate. Anyway it's not going to last long and she almost certainly won't be considered to have ever been the offical monarch (though if Daenerys becomes Queen it's possible that Tommen, Joffrey and Robert's reigns will be considered to have never been offical either)

The person in Westeros with the best claim to the throne is Gendry!

Well that is the point. She is pretty much the Queen of Nothing.

Only King's Landing and Casterly Rock.

To the South Dorne, Tyrells, and Dany's army composed of Dothraki and Iron Borne.

ANd of course the North will never bow down to a Lannister monarch after all the Lannisters have done to the North.

Probably not Casterly Rock either. Her brother is probably supremely pissed and has been given a loophole out of the Kingsguard. Jamie's, at this point, Lord of Casterly Rock and probably sees a 'debt' owed by Cersei.

And a Lannister always pays their debts.

And the Julius Ceaser comparisons are too much to bear.

Jaime will kill Cersei and Cersei will say a final word to him similar to Ceaser's "Et tu Brute?"

 

[K12]

My take on the show's "message" about idealism and morality has always been that being in the right is pointless if you aren't also able to stay in control... however you often spend so much effort to keep control that you aren't able to do any lasting good.

The show doesn't really HAVE a "message". A message implies thematic depth, and the show has none that it didn't take from the books. Adaptation decay has ensured that whatever spirit of the novels it accidentally captured early on has been well and truly destroyed at this point.

Yeah my bad, I was actually talking about the books and George R. R. Martin stance rather than the show. The show doesn't really commit to the main point of the story, the unapologetic way it rips apart conventions of classic medieval fantasy and presents deeply nuanced characters with their own agendas and actions have real (and often unintended) consequences.

I still really enjoy the show and actually think some of the changes they made in earlier seasons were really positive as well as the greater focus on some of the non-POV characters but the books are definitely the "real" version of the story.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Antiauthoritarian camp, if someone puts a political analogy on a media it's not bizzare to criticize it.

There is nothing in that video to support nor criticize "authoritarianism" as a school of political thought. The video discusses the question of authoritarian violence and whether or not the books celebrate it or decry it (among other things). There isn't a political statement to be found.

But the problem the series goes out of it's way to subvert the ideals, Rob didn't die because he was too idealistic, but because he did the right thing according to his code and not the smart thing, another example that subvert both in-universe and out-universe ideals is Tyrion who is neither the monster people think of him in-universe but not the saint people think out-universe, also Dany can be used to negate both points, her ideals cause the death of tens of thousands and pretty much confirmed to not make a change for the good and her "bringing down the lords" only caused people who were fine before to be in a far worse position.

Already discussed subversion and how the books view idealism above in my reply to K12, if you're interested.

I think it has 2 main themes: "A good person is not necessarily a good ruler"(also anti ideals): a good ruler does what's best for everyone even if it betrays his own ideals.
And "Everyone dies": which I like to see as that even with impending apocalypse a single character's thoughts and actions still matter despite the grim ending that awaits.

The books have many themes, both primary and secondary. I do not concur that "everyone dies" is one of them. The rate at which characters die in the books has been hilariously overstated. Virtually none of the POV characters has actually died through five novels, and given the world is the grip of plagues, wars and mythical invasions the death count of secondary and tertiary characters is entirely reasonable.

I still really enjoy the show and actually think some of the changes they made in earlier seasons were really positive as well as the greater focus on some of the non-POV characters but the books are definitely the "real" version of the story.

I think the show, while flawed, did as good a job as could reasonably have been expected through ~3 seasons, despite some needless deviations that really rankled me. Post season 4, I think the show has been actively quite bad, and has masked a lot of writing/plotting problems with an escalating production budget.

 

[Frankster]

If you and your friend circle foresaw Cersei blowing up the Sept and with it causing the deaths of 7 major characters, to be followed by the death of another, then I absolutely take my hat off to you; I certainly didn't, and I've also read the books.

I accept your hat and add it to my collection. I just hope it isn't a Fedora cos those have a bad rep now.
If it can cheer you, reading the books has 0 to do with it, some of my friends were not book readers and still managed to come to the same conclusion.It's more about how much you overthink things I guess.

The Sept blowing up was heavily telegraphed,what did you think Qyburn was whispering about in the past episodes and the rumors he was investigating? Wildfire under the Sept was something bought up in previous episodes, we found it super curious it got bought up the way it did, so that+Qyburn allowed us to make a decent guess as to where they were going with this, with Cersei being denied the use of the mountain the ultimate sign.
This removed the possibility of "cleganebowl" and it doesn't take a book reader to know Cersei was going to do something big, and try to take down all her enemies in KL with it, and Tommen would soon follow because of his character arc this season growing away from his mother, it would be nonsensical for him to meekly go back under her wing+he stopped eating when Margaery was in prison, of course he would take her death even worst+ we were told via the prophecy that Cersei's kids are doomed to die before her, aka they ain't likely to live long.
Only Kevan's death was not predicted and that's mostly cos we forgot about him.

Finally even though we missed this, they actually did show the Sept being blown up in one of Bran's visions (imma have to find this scene for myself before i can comment on it though but source is from WinterIsComing so is reliable enough to trust for things like this).

 

[Laughing Man]

Only Kevan's death was not predicted and that's mostly cos we forgot about him.

yeah but the book readers already knew he was going to die anyway, maybe not like he did but I am surprised he made it that far.

The episode was fantastic, we are reaching a finally point, the main houses are being rubbed out (or at least the primary characters of those houses are)

Tully, Frey, Lannister, Tyrell and Stark have all lost most of their main characters now and the end is looking to be in sight.

Loved how Cersei really stepped up the evil scheming ***** in this one, I mean she was always an evil scheming ***** but she really took it to a whole new level here. Also loved the symbology behind her suddenly wanting to wear black as she takes the thrown while at the same time the Queen in Mereen, who is usually seen all in white decides to take sail for the Seven Kingdoms.

I am calling it now,

The Mad King gets killed by Jamie Lannister because he was both mad as a badger's backside and was going to use Wildfire on his people. He did this during the Lannister, Bartheon, Stark siege on Kingslanding.

Jamies going to kill Cersei during a Stark Targarean Tyrell siege on Kingslanding because she is clearly becoming as mad as a badger's backside and has proven she has no issue using Wildfire on her people.

Only downside to the episode was the ending and that was purely because when I saw the Greyjoys setting out for Mereen I knew exactly, exactly how the season would end, with a zooming out shot of the Targarean fleet crossing the Narrow Sea while her Dragons fly past the camera. I wanted some scene with the Night King reaching the wall but I guess not.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

As season finales go, this was without doubt the best the show has yet given. It was an absolutely brilliant episode all in all. I think it was the episode of the season actually. I do have a couple of issues however.

The most obvious has already been pointed out. HowTF did Varys get from Dorne to Mereen in zero time flat? Jameie and Bron took WEEKS to get from King's Landing to Dorne, he went from Essos to Dorne in one episode, delivered a single, ominous line and back in 5 minutes. Either he has teleportation powers or a doppleganger.

The second...the wildfire at the Sept. I think it was very disappointing. Yes yes yes it was foreshadowed to buggery and back, yes I realise it has significant ramifications, yes it looked fantastic on screen. BUT after two years of drama, imprisonment, Trial by the Gods, banning trials by combat, Loras' confession, the High Sparrow, the Faith Militant, Cersei's walk, all of two seasons worth of drama and character development, and they just blow it all up. Great. Well done. Psssh.

About the ONLY thing that could be interesting to come out of that development, is what happens to Jaime. This season has really tested him and shown his dual nature. He believes he's a decent person but he does horrible things. He killed the Mad King to earn his nickname when the King revealed he would burn the city with Wildfire. Now Cersei DID burn the city with wildfire, killing the Tyrell's, High Septons and resulting in their son's suicide. Can Jamie forgive the woman he loves for committing this grievous sin? The Lannister in him would want to but the man/knight in him can't. That will be interesting to see....in a year's time.

I think Cersei absolutely stole the show. Her scene with the bound priestess was magnificent. She was so good as she confessed her thoughts and desires, it was chilling, horrific and masterful. The other star was Lady Mormont. Tho she lacks knowledge and experience, she has a sharp mind and sharper tongue. She is 10 and puts grown men to shame.

I don't know what to make of Sam arriving at the citadel. There's not a lot of episodes left and he somehow has to get a complete Maester's education in history, tactics, medicine, geography, politics, etc and get back in time for the battle to be useful. I think this plot line, along with Dany's and Dorne's have just taken too long and come in at the eleventh hour when there's too much else going on. They could've taken out 2.5 seasons (3, 4 and first half of 5) and shortened it and it would be much better to watch.

Anyway, very good episode, can't wait until next year. I just hope they don't stretch out season 7 into two years of 6 episodes each as I've heard might well happen.

 

[Glongpre]

She certainly isn't a villain. Most of her decisions have good intentions, they are just full of naivety

Good intentions is such a copout and seems to apply only to characters fans like, the best villains imo are the ones who do evil because they feel they have good intentions or think they are in the right (Stannis, who doesn't get defended anywhere near as much even though his intentions genuinely are more noble then that of Daenarys who only seeks power because she has dragons and she is entitled to the throne!). Otherwise all we have left are psychos like Ramsay or Jeoffrey, who whilst its fun to hate, are poorer villains exactly because they are so unabashedly evil and love every bit of it.

But Dany has "good" intentions, stops being a defence the second she crucified people(innocent and guilty alike of the "crime" she has judged them) or has them fed to dragons in a fit of rage. Or what about all those people her dothraki hordes raped and looted, robbing them of their lives and families? She was a-ok with that, thinking it was the height of nobility when she walked down and asked some of her dothraki to spare the women of this particular village (if you're a guy go fuck yourself and enjoy life as a slave lol).
At the end of the day if you're one of those suckers on the receiving end of Dany's rage/"good intentions" due to no fault of your own, thinking "well at least she MEANT well" before you die horribly in pain is hardly going to console you. She certainly isn't the villain? Depends who you are.
ex:If I was some random westerosi peasant only looking for wars to cease so I can get back to my farming, once I'm conscripted in my local lord's army (and maybe I'm ok with that because my Lord is a good man/woman) and finding myself facing hordes of screaming dothraki who will wanna rape/enslave/kill me or being burnt alive by the fire of a swooping dragon, all this in the defence of my homelands, lord and family, Dany is certainly going to look like a villain from my perspective. Hold fast brothers and sisters of Westeros, we must throw back the dragon queen and her hordes of barbarians, mercs,pirates, eunuchs and malcontents back across the narrow sea!

She is a child. Read that again. A child. She is not supergirl, she cannot save everyone. She can hardly be called a villain because she wants to go home and be a ruler (which she heard was her birthright for her whole life), or because her decision to try and free slaves led to an escalating conflict. She has good intentions which led to a whole lot of bad things.
We are not debating whether the people of Westeros think she is a villain because obviously it is subjective, and irrelevant anyway. Perspectives do not come into it.
You have to look into her thoughts and actions (which we get a POV on), and use them to determine the kind of person that she is.
And at no point would I conclude that wanting to save people is villainous. She wants to be a good ruler, and care for the people. Now whether that intention led to shit going down is a whole 'nother thing.

I just can't, man. If you want to call Dany a villain then so be it.

And for the record, she is not my favourite character, therefore good intentions /= copout. If you wish to correct me on factual errors I have made in regards to what is written of Dany's character then feel free to do so.

 

[DeimosMasque]

Absolutely adore the finale.

As for the so-called teleportation of certain characters and armies and navys... I just assumed while watching that the 12 months we have no show is when Varys returns and sails with Dany, that Dorne and the remains of Tyrells arrived in that time.as well.

I respect the show for not treating its viewers like idiots and having to put up a 10 months later subtitle up. The show has crossed over travel time since season one, I don't expect them to start changing that now

 

[FirstNameLastName]

If you and your friend circle foresaw Cersei blowing up the Sept and with it causing the deaths of 7 major characters, to be followed by the death of another, then I absolutely take my hat off to you; I certainly didn't, and I've also read the books.

I accept your hat and add it to my collection. I just hope it isn't a Fedora cos those have a bad rep now.
If it can cheer you, reading the books has 0 to do with it, some of my friends were not book readers and still managed to come to the same conclusion.It's more about how much you overthink things I guess.

The Sept blowing up was heavily telegraphed,what did you think Qyburn was whispering about in the past episodes and the rumors he was investigating? Wildfire under the Sept was something bought up in previous episodes, we found it super curious it got bought up the way it did, so that+Qyburn allowed us to make a decent guess as to where they were going with this, with Cersei being denied the use of the mountain the ultimate sign.
This removed the possibility of "cleganebowl" and it doesn't take a book reader to know Cersei was going to do something big, and try to take down all her enemies in KL with it, and Tommen would soon follow because of his character arc this season growing away from his mother, it would be nonsensical for him to meekly go back under her wing+he stopped eating when Margaery was in prison, of course he would take her death even worst+ we were told via the prophecy that Cersei's kids are doomed to die before her, aka they ain't likely to live long.
Only Kevan's death was not predicted and that's mostly cos we forgot about him.

Finally even though we missed this, they actually did show the Sept being blown up in one of Bran's visions (imma have to find this scene for myself before i can comment on it though but source is from WinterIsComing so is reliable enough to trust for things like this).

Personally, since Cersei was confined to the Red Keep and seemed to be headed for persecution, I thought Qyburn was investigating the secret passages the Tyrion used to escape. Since her own son was beginning to grow further apart I assumed she would use them to flee in a way mirroring what Tyrion when through (since he was on death row as well), rather than mirror the mad king.

Perhaps I haven't been paying enough attention to the lore, but I thought they got rid of the wild fire after the mad king's reign.

 

[DoPo]

Perhaps I haven't been paying enough attention to the lore, but I thought they got rid of the wild fire after the mad king's reign.

They used wildfire in season 2. The battle of Blackwater Bay when Stannis attacked King's Landing - the winning move was burning his fleet using the thing. In an episode before the battle, Tyrion was led into the vast storage where they kept stocks and stocks of wildfire. It looked very much like what you saw in the last episode now. In fact, it might be the same place - I can't remember. The Alchemists' Guild was producing wildfire at the time, too.

At any rate, the shots with the barrels from this episode were very definitely intended to be reminiscent of the previous episode when Tyrion encountered them. I don't think there was any intention of wildfire being a surprise after showing the rows and rows of barrels.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Jamies going to kill Cersei during a Stark Targarean Tyrell siege on Kingslanding because she is clearly becoming as mad as a badger's backside and has proven she has no issue using Wildfire on her people.

Supposing that is what's going to happen, what I'm really wondering about is what Jaime would do afterwards? Will he follow Cersei in death and take his own life? Will he choose to live on, which considering the likely outcome of the story, will probably mean either getting executed, imprisonment for life or lifelong exile.

Also, should both Cersei and Jaime die, that would make Tyrion the last remaining Lannister (or at least the last of the head branch). Now, assuming the story ends with Danaerys on the Iron Throne, that would mean the story essentially ends the way it began when Robert and Ned rebelled: Targaryan rule with a Lannister as Hand.

 

[Hawki]

Jamies going to kill Cersei during a Stark Targarean Tyrell siege on Kingslanding because she is clearly becoming as mad as a badger's backside and has proven she has no issue using Wildfire on her people.

Supposing that is what's going to happen, what I'm really wondering about is what Jaime would do afterwards? Will he follow Cersei in death and take his own life? Will he choose to live on, which considering the likely outcome of the story, will probably mean either getting executed, imprisonment for life or lifelong exile.

Also, should both Cersei and Jaime die, that would make Tyrion the last remaining Lannister (or at least the last of the head branch). Now, assuming the story ends with Danaerys on the Iron Throne, that would mean the story essentially ends the way it began when Robert and Ned rebelled: Targaryan rule with a Lannister as Hand.

My guess is that:

-He kills Cersei, thus becoming kinslayer and queenslayer, in addition to kingslayer.

-History repeats itself, this time Dany walking into the throne room in a manner similar to Ned walking in on Jaime after Aerys's death.

-All bets are off. Maybe Jaime becomes the head of House Lannister, maybe he takes his own life, maybe he wanders off, or something else happens. At the least, I'm sure Tyrion would vouch for him.

 

[Frankster]

She is a child. Read that again. A child. She is not supergirl, she cannot save everyone.
(...)
Perspectives do not come into it.
You have to look into her thoughts and actions (which we get a POV on), and use them to determine the kind of person that she is.
(...)
And at no point would I conclude that wanting to save people is villainous.

I read that well and I don't think that is an acceptable excuse. Was Jeoffrey any less villainous because of his age?
Is age and "naivete" really acceptable excuses when you're jockeying for power and affect the fates of many with countless decisions?

Perspectives DO come into it, if anything I'd say it matters most of all. One person's villain is another's hero and vice versa. People of Westeros don't get to read the books and see what characters think, they can only judge by their actions, otherwise characters like Jaime would be worshipped as heroes rather then hated as traitorous scum, Jaime had perfectly good reasons to do what he did, but it didn't matter because of how others perceived his actions.
Of course people like Daenarys and her advisors are gonna think of themselves as good people doing the right thing, as I said, most good villains are like that, doing horrible things in the name of what they believe is right... And from the perspective of those on the outside or on the receiving end of her wrath, Dany appears far less noble.
Do I have to repeat the part about her crucifying and burning innocents alive? Fucked up shit like that can't just be excused with "well at least she has good intentions!".
I don't use that excuse to defend characters I like, see Stannis, who has far better intentions then Daenarys (he doesn't believe he deserves the Throne, but that it's his duty and that it's necessary for the good of the realm), certainly aint gonna give Dany a free pass.
Just sticking to someone's POV isn't a reliable indicator, it gives insight sure, but you'd be a fool to believe one's own press. Very few characters outside Ramsey or Jeoffrey (who are fun villains to hate, but are less interesting due to being cartoonishly evil) honestly think "yeah im evil and I LOVE it". Even Cersei doesn't think like that, and her own POV is rather deluded when compared to what others think of her.
Daenarys might believe she is entitled to the throne, but she doesn't have a magical right to rule over Westeros any more then her ancestors did, but she has dragons so she can burn alive people who disagree, "good" people and "bad" people alike. What, are you saying all those people her ancestors and herself killed in the pursuit of personal power deserved it? Were they all "evil" people? Maybe they too wanted to save people and develop their country/nation but never got a chance to because some Targaryen on a dragon came flying by and extinguished their entire family with a gush of flame.

Wanting to save people is not villainous in itself. It's how you go about it that matters. Good intentions don't magically justify anything, that is a very dangerous and slippery road where so long as the person BELIEVES they are in the right and trying to do the "right" thing (which might not always be the "right" thing in others view, hence why perspective matters), they can get away with Ramsey Bolton levels of cruelty and still perfectly justify it in their own minds as a "necessary" deed or w/e.

And I didn't meant to imply she was one of your own favorite characters, but referring to show Daenarys getting way too much leeway due to being a fan favorite, and thus especially media articles tend to lionize her in every possible way whilst glossing over some of the most fucked up aspects of her character, leading to this weird bias that Daenarys is some whiter then white pure snow ruler who can't do any wrong even when she actually is doing wrong and showing flashes of Targaryen madness.

As for calling Daenarys a flat villain..AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGH.
Sorry, but I really hate this need to neatly divide characters into "goodie" and "baddie" categories. Why can't you be both? One of the reasons I got drew to GoT is because of the complex nuances of characters and how their own personal morality can clash with how their actions are perceived... I roll with it because it seems a lot of people can't handle nuanced characters and thus whitewash characters like Daenarys which forces me to take the opposite stance and use a similarly simplistic language to balance it out but if you're asking MY honest opinion then she is neither hero nor villain, more of a self interested conqueror (there is nothing virtuous about wanting to rule over a land you have no personal experience of just because you feel you deserve it) with shades of virtue and the Targaryen madness looming behind her. She also has some nasty character flaws such as thinking she knows best at things she barely understands "I'm not going to change the wheel...I'm going to BREAK IT!!!!.

Finally...Are you REALLY sure show Dany is a child? She doesn't look like it, played by a 30 yr old, never acts that age at any point (unlike the books) and the show has aged up most of the characters...
Looking it up I don't find anything to support this view either, it seems accepted that show Daenarys was around 17 when introduced, and would actually be 22-23 at this current stage of the show. So yeh, methinks you might be confusing Book and Show Dany a little bit here....
Actually you are, big time, no wonder you bought up PoV from the books as an argument for the show characters.... Damn Im kicking myself as I could have saved a lot of time and tldr, but I just woke up so wasn't thinking straight it seems.

Show and Book Dany are NOT the same thing. For starters I actually like Book Dany lol.
But whilst the show might use the book as a source, it's long ago branched into its own thing and characters aren't even the same (especially for ones like Tyrion who might aswell be different characters now). So yeah, not gonna go back and edit my post but consider this a final nail in the coffin for "only pov chapters from the books matters".