And thus concludes Game of Thrones season 6.

[Trunkage]

Is it just me or does Cersei come off as a competent planner. In the book, she is clearly not and that how the Sparrows get into power. I thought the same here, but the show has proven me wrong.

Also, she says she does things for the love of her children, except... she wanted the crown more?

 

[WolfThomas]

The most obvious has already been pointed out. HowTF did Varys get from Dorne to Mereen in zero time flat? Jameie and Bron took WEEKS to get from King's Landing to Dorne, he went from Essos to Dorne in one episode, delivered a single, ominous line and back in 5 minutes. Either he has teleportation powers or a doppleganger.

The Doylist Answer: Story-telling mechanics. It probably took weeks but do we need to see cuts of Varys in transit? Is that really interesting?

Watsonian answer: If you look at Daenarys' fleet it has converted Volantine ships, Greyjoy ships, Dornish ships and Tyrell ships. Suggesting Varys met them on the way. When the Dornish and Tyrell navies rendezvoused with Daenarys' navy and the Ironborn.

 

[Silence]

I don't know what to make of Sam arriving at the citadel. There's not a lot of episodes left and he somehow has to get a complete Maester's education in history, tactics, medicine, geography, politics, etc and get back in time for the battle to be useful. I think this plot line, along with Dany's and Dorne's have just taken too long and come in at the eleventh hour when there's too much else going on. They could've taken out 2.5 seasons (3, 4 and first half of 5) and shortened it and it would be much better to watch.

I also believe Sam can't get a full maester education (not even in the books). He will possibly find something about the White Walkers, send it to Jon and be a deciding factor. Maybe without ever coming back to the wall.

 

[Hawki]

Is it just me or does Cersei come off as a competent planner.

She isn't a competent planner in the TV series. Her not being competent allowed the Sparrows to come to power in both versions. Even the wildfyre idea is a short term gain for what's almost certainly going to be a very short reign without any support from the common folk. She's already destroyed the Lannister-Tyrell alliance, and took Kevan down in the process.

Also, she says she does things for the love of her children, except... she wanted the crown more?

She couldn't have planned for Tommen's death, and she's still clearly torn up about it. I don't think she even cares too much about the crown at this point. But yes, her use of wildfyre gets rid of the Sparrows, and as a bonus, gets rid of the Tyrells, most notably Margaery. In her mind, that's helping Tommen.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I'd see it more as a process that takes many many years and would need a lot more killing and a lot more tests..

It depends how you read it, I think.

I mean, sure, you could read it as the generic martial arts revenge story where the hero who has suffered some great wrong goes off to train with an ancient master until they recieve their kung fu license and go off to punch the people who wronged them really hard. But I wouldn't read it like that. The faceless men aren't a martial arts dojo or ninja clan, they're more like priests or monks in that they devote their entire lives to the service of a deity, which in this case happens to be death. I think it's just as likely that being a faceless man is an internal state of mind which a person slowly cultivates over their entire life as it is the state of being really good at stabbing people. The kindly man/Jaqen H'ghar has always been able to spot when Arya is lying, even if she believes she isn't lying. Although there was nothing in the scene to suggest it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he turns out to be right about her, and actually this whole raging revenge boner is just a thing she needs to get out of her system.

I think the "faces are poison" thing was a continuity error. It was a cool scene, but it basically existed to allow for a bunch of different scenes to be mashed together and to facilitate the weird "Arya Stark: pedo hunter" subplot which needed to exist for some reason. However, I don't think the scene where Arya returns the waif's face to the house of black and white was an accident.. it seemed specifically there to show that she can make the faces now.

That angle actually makes some sense I guess in that it explains the infatuation, though it still doesn't explain to me why Tyrion is so eager to help her conquer Westeros and assist in the downfall and possible deaths of the few people he still cares about.

Again, I would view this as an adaptation which doesn't really work. Frankly, I think book Tyrion would turn off a lot of casual viewers because he's such a complete arsehole, but the "aggressive white washing" as guppy put it does create a lot of problems in his arc. It's not really a weakness with Tyrion's relationship with Danaerys in and of itself, though, which is quite cute little extrapolation of how things will probably go in the book. Tyrion's whole thing is that he's actually a big romantic who is constantly battling with a lifetime of having his big romantic ideals crushed by cruel of reality. Dany is literally the magic comes back [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMagicComesBack] in human form. Of course he's going to think she's great.

According to the accounts of his fellow kingsguard, Ser Strong doesn't eat, drink, sleep or even go to the loo.
Thus I concluded he likely doesn't fuck either nor has carnal or biological desires of any kind, that is just a robot with the following prime directives: protect Cersei and serve her.

I don't see why you'd assume that, though. I mean, he's clearly a reanimated corpse, but he's the reanimated corpse of Gregor Clegaine. Given that book Qyburn believes that a trace of people's souls remains in the world after they die, I'm not sure I'd rule out a bit of the old Gregor still being in there..

 

[Sonmi]

Is it just me or does Cersei come off as a competent planner.

She isn't a competent planner in the TV series. Her not being competent allowed the Sparrows to come to power in both versions. Even the wildfyre idea is a short term gain for what's almost certainly going to be a very short reign without any support from the common folk. She's already destroyed the Lannister-Tyrell alliance, and took Kevan down in the process.

Also, she says she does things for the love of her children, except... she wanted the crown more?

She couldn't have planned for Tommen's death, and she's still clearly torn up about it. I don't think she even cares too much about the crown at this point. But yes, her use of wildfyre gets rid of the Sparrows, and as a bonus, gets rid of the Tyrells, most notably Margaery. In her mind, that's helping Tommen.

I don't know how Martin will take it with the books, but that's not at all how it read in the show. She clearly didn't intend for Tommen to die, but I'm not sure that she particularly cared about him after she realized that he was totally lost to her. Another point, she was wearing her queen's outfit before Tommen took a nosedive. Whatever she expected to happen with Tommen, she clearly didn't expect that he was going to be King anymore.

I disagree, she clearly did care for Tommen. She was simply kind of desensitized after the deaths of her son, father, and then daughter all in quick succession.

The outfit she wore wasn't exactly "queenly" either, it's more than likely that it was a mourning gown, for the people she was about to blow up. She kept it afterwards, because why the hell not? It's black, threatening, and ominous, it's more a decision on the costume designers's parts than a sign that she wanted to depose Tommen.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

If you and your friend circle foresaw Cersei blowing up the Sept and with it causing the deaths of 7 major characters, to be followed by the death of another, then I absolutely take my hat off to you; I certainly didn't, and I've also read the books.

The Sept blowing up was heavily telegraphed,what did you think Qyburn was whispering about in the past episodes and the rumors he was investigating? [ ... ]

I agree that Cersei's wildfire plan was predictable and she would *try* to take down her enemies, but I think there were a number of different directions it could have gone in: the deaths of most of the Small Council in the Sept was far from the only outcome. That's why it feels to me like a prediction in hindsight (no offense intended!).

The episode was fantastic, we are reaching a finally point, the main houses are being rubbed out (or at least the primary characters of those houses are)

Tully, Frey, Lannister, Tyrell and Stark have all lost most of their main characters now and the end is looking to be in sight.

I kind of have an issue with the implausibility of the whole 'end of the House' situation that seems to be arising now: far be it from the show to include *everyone* from these families, but the suggestion that a noble family in what is basically the Middle Ages would have this few offspring and other members is frankly absurd. I think the showrunners or GRRM ought to have tried to set up a few replacement characters and new blood so that it seems as if the War could continue in perpetuity, rather than draw to a close simply because everyone of any note is dead ...

 

[Glongpre]

Finally...Are you REALLY sure show Dany is a child? She doesn't look like it, played by a 30 yr old, never acts that age at any point (unlike the books) and the show has aged up most of the characters...
Looking it up I don't find anything to support this view either, it seems accepted that show Daenarys was around 17 when introduced, and would actually be 22-23 at this current stage of the show. So yeh, methinks you might be confusing Book and Show Dany a little bit here....
Actually you are, big time, no wonder you bought up PoV from the books as an argument for the show characters.... Damn Im kicking myself as I could have saved a lot of time and tldr, but I just woke up so wasn't thinking straight it seems.

I was going completely off the books, so my apologies. I haven't watched the show since Blackwater Bay (season 2?).

I will call it a draw. (That's a joke, you are probably right about how she is portrayed in the show)

 

[Laughing Man]

I kind of have an issue with the implausibility of the whole 'end of the House' situation that seems to be arising now: far be it from the show to include *everyone* from these families, but the suggestion that a noble family in what is basically the Middle Ages would have this few offspring and other members is frankly absurd. I think the showrunners or GRRM ought to have tried to set up a few replacement characters and new blood so that it seems as if the War could continue in perpetuity, rather than draw to a close simply because everyone of any note is dead ...

Oh I agree in that respect, the house Frey is a great example of how the show handles this though, we are told that he has many many offspring but we are only introduced to a select few i.e the ones that the show considers important. Despite their being a ton of Frey's left chances are we will hear very little of them again because as far as the viewer is concerned the main antagonist is dead, then again Arya may have gone on a massacre and killed as many as she could.

On the other hand Kevin Lannister for example is married and has several offspring (including Lancel) but we have never been introduced to them, so from our point of view the House Lannister is looking a little bit on it's last legs but the reality is their is a whole other generation of Lannisters kicking about. On the other hand how long has it been since we were introduced to a new house? The most recent would be Lord Tarly who we were told about way back in Season 1 but didn't see any members of until Season 6 and apart from giving Sam a get back chance he hasn't played much of a roll in the TV series.

Also, should both Cersei and Jaime die, that would make Tyrion the last remaining Lannister (or at least the last of the head branch). Now, assuming the story ends with Danaerys on the Iron Throne, that would mean the story essentially ends the way it began when Robert and Ned rebelled: Targaryan rule with a Lannister as Hand.

As I mentioned above Kevin Lannister has offspring the show just hasn't focused on any of them besides Lancel. The other factor you have to remember is that the Targaryan rule will be limited, Dany can't have any children which means no airs to the Targaryan thrown, the ONLY hope would be if John Snow really is a Targaryan, all it would require is for it to turn up that Lyanna and Rhagear had married in secret and he would be the legit ruler who could also maintain the Targaryan legacy.

 

[Sonmi]

*snip*

Just quick nitpick, but I actually agree with most of your post.

We are actually introduced to some of Kevan's family, Martyn Lannister, Kevan's son, is introduced in Season 3 (played by the same actor who played Tommen those last two seasons) and is killed by Lord Karstark and his goons.

 

[DoPo]

Is it just me or does Cersei come off as a competent planner. In the book, she is clearly not and that how the Sparrows get into power. I thought the same here, but the show has proven me wrong.

Erm, her plan backfired. And quite spectacularly, at that. The core motivation for Cersei are her children - she loves them a lot and does everything for them. Her plan was to release Tommen of his tethers, or what she perceives as tethers. The High Sparrow, along with his whole church, Margery and her trial. These are all things that were in the way of both Tommen and the family. The High Sparrow had his talons dug into Tommen and King's Landing, Margery was also controlling her son away from Cersei, her trial was a public problem thing.

With one fell swoop, she got rid of all opposition. And cleared the way for Tommen. With one fell swoop she also lost everything when Tommen died. She both gained a lot and lost everything at the same time.

Also, she says she does things for the love of her children, except... she wanted the crown more?

More than what? Tommen who probably had to be scraped off the pavement? Yeah, he sort of renounced the crown before splattering to the ground. By definition he doesn't want it any more.

There is nobody else to get the crown. I guess, maybe Jaime but he was 1. unavailable at the time 2. I think not "acceptable" as a king. He is...or at least was (was he let go?), member of the King's Guard which meant he had renounced titles. Even if he was released from duty, I don't know if that releases him of his renouncement. At any rate, would have definitely caused troubles because enemies of the crown would have used this to try and claim the throne themselves. He also has that "Kingslayer" thing that doesn't really sit well with people. Another thing that would have got in the way of him being an efficient king.

The only other Lannister around is Tyrion. He was also unavailable to take up the throne and may have been a li-i-i-itle more controversial with him actually killing a king more recently than Jaime (at least in the mind of the public). Cersei would have also been a li-i-i-itle upset and would have tried only everything in her power to strip Tyrion of his crown, life, and most likely flesh and limbs. Not necessarily in that order, either.

So, who did Cersei snatch the crown away from?

 

[Evonisia]

Also, she says she does things for the love of her children, except... she wanted the crown more?

I got the impression she was quite numbed by Tommen's suicide - like she just couldn't handle anymore tragedy in her family. She made the arrangements quick and even (kinda) honoured him by arranging for his ashes to be put near his family's and the death site of his wife.

Plus at that point there are no heirs that we know of, unless you count Gendry, so Cersei taking the crown was probably the only way to keep Lannister power in King's Landing.

 

[happyninja42]

Clarify something for me please. At this point, the only person who in-universe knows about Jon Snow's parentage is Bran right? As far as I can recall (and admittedly I don't follow the minute details of this show/book series anymore), everyone else who knew this fact is dead. Right?

 

[Hawki]

Clarify something for me please. At this point, the only person who in-universe knows about Jon Snow's parentage is Bran right? As far as I can recall (and admittedly I don't follow the minute details of this show/book series anymore), everyone else who knew this fact is dead. Right?

In the show, there's a strong chance that Howland Reed knows as well, considering that he survived the Tower of Joy as well, even if he didn't see the conversation with Ned and Lyanna.

 

[Remus]

If you and your friend circle foresaw Cersei blowing up the Sept and with it causing the deaths of 7 major characters, to be followed by the death of another, then I absolutely take my hat off to you; I certainly didn't, and I've also read the books.

I accept your hat and add it to my collection. I just hope it isn't a Fedora cos those have a bad rep now.
If it can cheer you, reading the books has 0 to do with it, some of my friends were not book readers and still managed to come to the same conclusion.It's more about how much you overthink things I guess.

Not a fedora, a Fez!

now that I think about it, the sept sploding might have been in Bran's first vision when he originally connected to the tree, what 2-3 seasons back?

 

[happyninja42]

Clarify something for me please. At this point, the only person who in-universe knows about Jon Snow's parentage is Bran right? As far as I can recall (and admittedly I don't follow the minute details of this show/book series anymore), everyone else who knew this fact is dead. Right?

In the show, there's a strong chance that Howland Reed knows as well, considering that he survived the Tower of Joy as well, even if he didn't see the conversation with Ned and Lyanna.

....I know the character you mean from the flashback, but have we met him in the "present" day? 'Cause I'm totally drawing a blank on who that is.

 

[Hawki]

Clarify something for me please. At this point, the only person who in-universe knows about Jon Snow's parentage is Bran right? As far as I can recall (and admittedly I don't follow the minute details of this show/book series anymore), everyone else who knew this fact is dead. Right?

In the show, there's a strong chance that Howland Reed knows as well, considering that he survived the Tower of Joy as well, even if he didn't see the conversation with Ned and Lyanna.

....I know the character you mean from the flashback, but have we met him in the "present" day? 'Cause I'm totally drawing a blank on who that is.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Howland_Reed (for further reading)

We haven't met him face to face in the present, but we know that he's still alive as of season 2's timeframe (it's mentioned that he wept when he heard of Ned's death). Course, with the Red Wedding having since occurred, that isn't necessarily still true.

 

[Callate]

Word from on high is that people traveling so fast is a misperception because we're seeing events that take place at different times concurrently within the show, but actually occur at very different times chronologically.

Not to put too fine a point on it, I think word from on high is totally full of shit at this point.

At best, they totally brought the confusion/frustration down on themselves to have Varys travel half-way around the world and back within the course of a single episode, at the same time going through events in King's Landing that apparently took maybe a week(?). That, right there, is crap storytelling on a very basic level.

More likely, to my mind, they've gotten so determined to have everyone where they need to be to play out their unlikely, melodramatic confrontations at regular intervals, they've forgotten the idea that there might need to be something resembling a coherent and credible chronological order to events at all. How far did Brienne travel, and how much did she do, between her meetings with Jaime? How far did Arya travel, and how much did she do (having also met up with Brienne at a particular point) within the same amount of time?

Forgive me if I overstate the point- a Facebook acquaintance of mine is being particularly credulous and obnoxious in taking the producer's line on this one.

There was some glorious spectacle in the last episode, sure... But the only thing that really resounded with me was Daenerys making Tyrion her Hand. Tyrion has been overdue for some respect for a while.

I also feel a certain need to point out that Cersei was responsible for the High Sparrow and his zealots taking over King's Landing in the first place. Now, having blown up half the city, overthrown what seemed a pretty popular regime, and destroyed Westeros' standing with its creditors, she gets to be queen (speaking of "I think we may have skipped over a few things on the way to getting here.") Um, yay?