And thus concludes Game of Thrones season 6.

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

So, who did Cersei snatch the crown away from?

Technically, from the Baratheons, since they are actually the royal family, even if they gained that right by conquest themselves. The fact that the last 2 kings were 100% Lannister is unknown to all but a select few characters, to everyone else Joffrey and Tommen were Baratheons.

Then again, that is kind of a moot point, since with Robert, his brothers and all their direct offspring dead, the Baratheons are a little bereft of heirs, unless you count Gendry, who has the problem of being a bastard (and not being in the story anymore).

 

[Laughing Man]

Just quick nitpick

By all means pick those nits, lol their is so much going on in GOT I am not surprised I missed something like that, I am rewatching now, just started Season 2 so I'll keep an eye out for that happening.

 

[Frankster]

Game of Fan theories

You've given me a lot of food for thought, cheers for that
What you say makes some sense for the Faceless men, I guess I'll just have to accept training as a Faceless men is more mystical (that jedi comparison might end up being bang on the money after all... Luke didn't train for that long either) then I'd have liked (which would be more of a train under wise master for years scenario indeed).

I can agree that the problem with Tyrion isn't his relationship with Dany, but due to his character being whitewashed and still following the same route as his book counterpart anyways. I just keep thinking back to the big hug Jaime and Tyrion shared in their last meeting, was one of the few daaaaaw moments in the show imo, and can't believe this is the same Tyrion who is now bringing an army to come destroy everything and everyone he once loved (since Jaime is high on Dany's revenge list and Bron+Pod might end up being on the opposing side of the battlefield too, since as far as Tyrion knows, Pod is still part of the Lannister army and Bron is a ser now sworn to fight for the Lannisters. Does the idea of Dany swooping down on a dragon burning them all not trouble him in the least?)

Regarding Ser Strong, you're right, there is no real reason to think what I described, especially as I told another here that they shouldn't be confusing books and show, yet the only basis for my belief rests on a few lines from the book.
So chalk it up to me wishing that Ser Strong was portrayed a certain way a (a medievil t1000 terminator, only replace John Connor with Cersei), and hating it that the show is going in a different direction.

now that I think about it, the sept sploding might have been in Bran's first vision when he originally connected to the tree, what 2-3 seasons back?

o0 I assumed the vision would have been this season like a few episodes ago but if they showed it even further back and despite the army the of obsessive over analytical GoT fans, none caught it... Then I'm going to have to regift my newly acquired Fez to the producers, dangit.

Incidentally, a Fez is a fine choice of head wear, good taste.

 

[happyninja42]

Clarify something for me please. At this point, the only person who in-universe knows about Jon Snow's parentage is Bran right? As far as I can recall (and admittedly I don't follow the minute details of this show/book series anymore), everyone else who knew this fact is dead. Right?

In the show, there's a strong chance that Howland Reed knows as well, considering that he survived the Tower of Joy as well, even if he didn't see the conversation with Ned and Lyanna.

....I know the character you mean from the flashback, but have we met him in the "present" day? 'Cause I'm totally drawing a blank on who that is.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Howland_Reed (for further reading)

We haven't met him face to face in the present, but we know that he's still alive as of season 2's timeframe (it's mentioned that he wept when he heard of Ned's death). Course, with the Red Wedding having since occurred, that isn't necessarily still true.

Do you have a picture of him from "present day"? Because every search I've done for that name just shows the picture from the flashback, which doesn't help me any. xD

Then again, that is kind of a moot point, since with Robert, his brothers and all their direct offspring dead, the Baratheons are a little bereft of heirs, unless you count Gendry, who has the problem of being a bastard (and not being in the story anymore).

Not currently being shown in the series isn't the same thing as "not in the story anymore". Considering the group that we last saw him with was just recently reintroduced to the series, it's plausible that he might show back up.

 

[Remus]

Ah, found it

Spoiler: Bran's vision S06E06

Spoiler: Sept of Baelor goes kaboom

I guess most people kinda ignored the green fire because the mad king was yelling at the time and his plan was stopped by a sword in the back. But it is the sept explosion, 4 episodes prior. Favorite part, 5:11, the moment the high sparrow utterly disintegrates in a baptism of fire.

 

[Hawki]

....I know the character you mean from the flashback, but have we met him in the "present" day? 'Cause I'm totally drawing a blank on who that is.

Nup. Like I said, we haven't met him in the present, and don't know anything about his status post-season 2.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

So, who did Cersei snatch the crown away from?

Technically, from the Baratheons, since they are actually the royal family, even if they gained that right by conquest themselves. The fact that the last 2 kings were 100% Lannister is unknown to all but a select few characters, to everyone else Joffrey and Tommen were Baratheons.

Then again, that is kind of a moot point, since with Robert, his brothers and all their direct offspring dead, the Baratheons are a little bereft of heirs, unless you count Gendry, who has the problem of being a bastard (and not being in the story anymore).

I think that technically, she was just the nest person in the line of succession. With all the eligible male Baratheon's (actual or otherwise) dead, she is the next in line since she was the Queen of Robert Baratheon for almost two decades and thus still holds a claim to the throne.

 

[WolfThomas]

Cersei rules the iron throne solely on de facto not de jure authority. She leads the Lannisters, has their armies and controls the capital. There is no real legal authority, it is a military coup.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

I think that technically, she was just the nest person in the line of succession. With all the eligible male Baratheon's (actual or otherwise) dead, she is the next in line since she was the Queen of Robert Baratheon for almost two decades and thus still holds a claim to the throne.

That's possible, since the rules of succession in ASOIAF are rather vague, confusing and contradictory at times. As far as I know, when Robert took the throne, the Baratheons adopted the same rules of royal primogeniture that the Targaryens had, putting female heirs behind all possible male heirs.

Then again, whether or not Cersei has any legal right to the throne is likely irrelevant at this point, because...

Cersei rules the iron throne solely on de facto not de jure authority. She leads the Lannisters, has their armies and controls the capital. There is no real legal authority, it is a military coup.

Indeed, just remember these few lines between Tywin and Tyrion:

Tywin Lannister: You really think a crown gives you power?
Tyrion Lannister: No. I think armies give you power.

 

[Terminal Blue]

The whole notion of medieval "law" works great for crusader kings, but in reality is simply a set of (often unwritten) contracts and customary agreements between various parties. A ruler dying without an heir was a potentially terrifying incident, and for simple reasons of survival people would usually try to get someone onto the throne as quickly as possible. It wasn't unusual to try and conceal the fact that a monarch had died until their successor had been crowned (as was the case with Elizabeth I). Whether anyone actually intends Cersei to keep the throne, or whether the plan is that she will abdicate later, parking an available butt on the spikey chair seems like a good plan.

Noble houses in ASOIAF are also unusually large. In typical medieval primogeniture, the family name was passed through the male line, meaning the children of younger males would not inherit the family name. Thus, in real world primogeniture had Joffrey survived and produced a male heir Tommen's children (if he had any, he would not have been under any particular pressure to do so) would not have been Baratheons. Under the French system, which was the model for European primogeniture and probably it's most successful example, it's likely he would have inherited some minor titles or estates upon Robert's death, which would then allow his children to continue as a cadet branch of house Baratheon (effectively, a new noble house). This was important because it weakened their claim to the throne and thus made everything more stable.

I would imagine that in Westeros, even though the secondary lines of house Lannister keep the name, for example, they aren't really considered "proper" Lannisters. Some system of distinguishing between the main line and secondary lines of a family is kind of important for a working system of primogeniture.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

The most obvious has already been pointed out. HowTF did Varys get from Dorne to Mereen in zero time flat? Jameie and Bron took WEEKS to get from King's Landing to Dorne, he went from Essos to Dorne in one episode, delivered a single, ominous line and back in 5 minutes. Either he has teleportation powers or a doppleganger.

The Doylist Answer: Story-telling mechanics. It probably took weeks but do we need to see cuts of Varys in transit? Is that really interesting?

It isn't interesting, but we absolutely DO need to see cuts of it. It's called "continuity". It's very important to story telling and Varys was a massive continuity-fail The show is normally very good at things like that but there have been some let downs in this regard this season. This issue was one, the other was the Ironborn going from port to Mereen palace without ever seeing a ship or how they got there during a sea battle with dragons. We don't have to see everything but Varys travelling halfway around the world in zero time as far as we're concerned is teleporting.

 

[WolfThomas]

It isn't interesting, but we absolutely DO need to see cuts of it. It's called "continuity". It's very important to story telling and Varys was a massive continuity-fail

The show is normally very good at things like that but there have been some let downs in this regard this season. This issue was one, the other was the Ironborn going from port to Mereen palace without ever seeing a ship or how they got there during a sea battle with dragons.

We don't have to see everything but Varys travelling halfway around the world in zero time as far as we're concerned is teleporting.

Thank you. I'm aware of this "continuity" you speak of. Varys was not a failure of "continuity". He left Mereen presumably by fast boat. Arrived in Dorne which is the closest of all the Seven Kingdom. Where he met Olenna Tyrell and Ellaria Sand. He then travels back by ship to meet Daenarys on route to Westeros. Not in Mereen. The presence of a signicant number of Dornish and Tyrell ships in her fleet (shown by different sails) is evidence to this.

The show takes place over years. Since the Red Wedding, as Edmure attests to his imprisonment there has been "years" plural. Character's stories take place at different points in the timeline. Not necessarily chronological concurrent with other characters. It's very likely Arya's events in Braavos took place over a few days or weeks. Whereas travelling to Riverlands and infiltrating the Twins took months. But because that's the interesting part we see it broken across the 10 episodes.

We see the Ironborn make a pitstop in Voltantis. Which is roughly half-way to Mereen. Varys is a secondary or tertiary character in the story. He is important at certain points but also disappears for large chunks. In a very packed season finale we don't need to see him sitting at a proverbial bus stop. I'd rather spend any extra time with the characters we didn't see like Brienne.

 

[Denamic]

I love GoT so much. It's the only series that makes me root for characters I hate. I loathed Cercei. I wanted her to be tortured to death. And now I rooted for her and smiled as her plans 'succeeded'. I hated both of the Cleganes, but now I'm excited every time they get screentime. It's the same for most characters. I think the only characters I haven't actually hated so far are Tyrion, Jon, Davos, Ned, and Arya.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Thank you. I'm aware of this "continuity" you speak of.

Evidently not, since you follow this with the word...

presumably

That is not continuity Presuming something and putting the pieces together in your head are the opposite of continuity. It was absolutely a continuity error as evidenced by not just me, but several others pointing it out before me in this very thread and many others in other threads on other forums. It is a monstrous continuity error. You can presume and logicise it all you want. I used to work in media editing and am acutely aware of things like this.

If you think I'm being harsh of something you love and you must jump to defend it, please don't. I love it too, I have already said I thought E10 was not only better than any other season finale or even S6 episode. But I AM able to criticise something I care about for these things. The error is blindingly obvious and the simple solution would've been to not have Varys on the boat at the end. They created the issue by putting him there when we the audience had last seen him half a world away that same episode with ZERO explanation or such as to how he managed to come to be there.

His going to Dorne was fine. We see him leaving Mereen in Tyrion's company an episode earlier, we the audience not certain of his destination. Then he appears in Dorne at right time and finds allies for his Dragon Queen. That was brilliant storytelling. That was dramatic and makes us wonder now how Dorne and the Tyrell's factor in to Dany's forthcoming invasion. His reappearance on the boat was clumsy and unnecessary.

You can say "presumably" and "very likely" all you like, glaring continuity fail is still real. There are dozens of pages [https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=varys+teleport] about this online.

There were similar issues in MTVs fantasy show Shannara Chronicles. It, like GoT, is 10 episodes long. In it, the heroes travel from place A to place B over the course of the season, roughly from Episode 2-3 and arriving in Ep9. In that time they have myriad adventures including betrayals, kidnaps, rescues, separation, reuniting, fighting, running, demons, etc, etc. It takes them 6-7 episodes to get from A to B. Then in the last episode, in 5 minutes they get from B back to A again, in the middle of a full pitched battle. It absolutely beggars belief. The show established time and distance between these places, the hazards and pitfalls befalling anyone journeying between them, and suddenly it doesn't matter, our heroes make the journey in 5 minutes. It is a catastrophic continuity failure. It is bad storytelling. It might make for drama to have them appear at the eleventh hour to save the day just when all hope was thought lost, but it was cheap drama and poor storytelling.

The Varys issue isn't a huge screw up. The issue is that there are other stories that are more interesting...I even answered your question that it isn't interesting to see. But in GOOD storytelling, we should see it because of continuity. Teleporting the Ironborn, Varys and Arya everywhere is a poor way to set up next season. Although Arya I would probably let slide because her re-emergence in Westeros was both very dramatic and in keeping with everything we know of her (and at least we had a shot of her declaring she was leaving Braavos).