Anime and the issues we have with it: To download or not to download.

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Saint of M

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Ok, I?m not going to win any friends here. Think this issue of Extra Creditz, except with anime. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

So what is the problem here?

Pretty much most of the anime we have seen in the last decade or so, about the time people figured out the sometime after both figured out there was an internet and it was for more than looking at [insert supermodel?s/big name Hollywood star?s private parts here], people started using it to download stuff from it. One of them was anime, especially on the fan dub and sub site. For many people this was their gateway into anime as during the 90?s there wasn?t much out there, and up until anime?s popularity was getting back up at the turn of the millennium, there was still hardly anything on TV other than a couple programs on Toonami, and Pokemon.

Even after that, this was often the best way to get the latest shows from Japan. In some cases, distributors looked at the most popular movies and shows on these sites to see what people were watching, and going with the most popular programs.

We also have the common excuses for downloading include: it?s cheaper and I?d like to eat, or I would never pay for something like that.

The problem here is if you can afford most of the computing technology you can use to download, store, and enjoy that anime, chances are you can spend a few bucks for a subscription for Netflix or Crunchyroll, which in the long run, is a lot better then buy DVD?s for the most part. As for the other, your already wasting your time and hard drive on something worthwhile, why not put something back into the company so they can keep churning out great stuff?

So where is the problem? Money. Truth be told, this does bite into the prophets the studios make, and limits what they can do. It?s one thing if you can?t get the anime in your country yet legally, but it?s another when there are legal streaming sites. Again, what is the problem?

You ever take the time to read the credits on the shows and movies you watch? Especially past the names of actors you know? All of those extras, stuntmen and women, special effects teams, and so on and so on, would like to be paid. Most of the actors get paid upfront a set number, and while Angelina Jolie will never starve by choice (seriously, she needs to gain a few pounds back) any of the extras will not be paid so much, and depending on the DVD sales, paid even less with royalties. It?s a trickle down thing. This isn?t the paychecks of the big time actors we are worries about, it?s everyone else.

This applies to anime as much as it applies to any other product of filmmaking, and when it comes to acting, voice actors tend to follow that line of thinking as well. Well known actors, such as the cast of the Simpsons maybe getting 400K and episode, but younger actors who are still trying to make a name for themselves are still in the starving artist state. Even with more experienced, and height paid actors, they and their families tend to have become accustomed to eating now and then and would like to stay that way.

TO sum it up, if you enjoy anime, and you can get it legally, do that so we can see more good stuff. Otherwise, the anime studios tend to go with a safe bet, and well, safe bets can be anything but (and you wonder why genres you are sick of still exhist?).
 

Bara_no_Hime

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saint of m said:
Um... it the anime hasn't been picked up in, let's say, the USA, then how can one living in the USA purchase it legally?

I have legally purchased every single anime that I own for the purpose of supporting it's creators and letting the US anime industry know what I like.

My problem comes with shows that have never been, nor likely will ever be released in the USA.

Do I download them?

Do I buy a pirate DVD from someone in Hong Kong?

What should a fan do when the show doesn't exist as a legal, commercially released product?
 

Saint of M

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This I can see getting in via piracy simply because it hasn't been shipped over, or if it has it's probably in South America (they get stuff before the States more times then not)

If you can get it, or stream it otherwise, do it.
 

ZeZZZZevy

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bring it into a larger issue (tv shows that aren't aired in the US/other countries)

if there is physically no way for someone to get it legally, the only way to get it is through illegitimate means

personally I think circumstance is a large factor to piracy, and depending on each individual situation, what may/may not be ok changes
 

CrystalShadow

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It's a good point where a legal method of getting something exists.
(Though even there there's headaches that make it less than practical - If nothing else, you can import stuff from Japan, but that costs a lot, may get you in legal trouble because of the content, and relies on you having some idea of what it is you are buying, not to mention the language barrier, since imports probably have no translation.)

If it's legally available in your country, sure. Support the creators.
But... If not, ignoring it altogether won't help the companies either.

Someone needs to at least have the idea that there's a market for this stuff to bother importing/translating stuff.

In that regard, I'm a big fan of Funimation's youtube channel. (and their dedicated system, which unfortunately stopped working outside the US some time ago) They often have their series up, but sometimes they also have obscure things that nobody's tried importing, but which exist on fan-sites.

They frequently haven't bothered dubbing them, but a legitimate site with subs of something obscure is still preferable to a fan site of the same...
 

PekoponTAS

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I personally download almost all anime I watch, mostly because anime is too freaking expensive. And you know what? I wouldn't mind paying that much if it was actually worth it, but anime DVD sets cost so much and give you so little, that I feel insulted that they're even daring to charge that much for it. I paid 80 dollars for the Doki Doki School Hours Box set, and what did I get for it? 20 episodes on five discs. Oh sure, there was an English version and a Japanese subtitled version of each episode, so if you wanted to be generous, you could say it has 40 episodes.

Now compare that the best box set ever created, "The Powerpuff Girls Complete Series: 10th Anniversary Collection". Sure it sucks that the discs are double sided, but on these discs we get all 78 episodes, all of the pilots, the holiday special, and pretty much every other piece of media ever attached to the series as bonus content, along with some things created specifically for this set. The only thing missing is the movie, which is to be expected. All of that was on SIX discs, and it only cost 55 dollars. My point is that I don't buy anime because they don't make it worthwhile for the price they're asking. If they charged a reasonable amount, then I'd probably buy all my anime that I can actually buy legit copies of, but until they do that, I'm not going to be forking over that kind of cash.
 

Saint of M

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Why I love my netflix subscription, and when I review anime I scour DVD extras out of 10.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Bara_no_Hime said:
saint of m said:
Um... it the anime hasn't been picked up in, let's say, the USA, then how can one living in the USA purchase it legally?
THIS^^^

I really don't want to wait for 3-5 years for an anime to get distributed in the US, if it even happens at all.

Some of my favorite anime are ones that were never picked up in America, and only have fan-subs in English, and there's no way that I could have seen them without streaming/downloading them online.
 

JohnnyDelRay

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It's "profits" not "prophets"! Sorry, I could overlook all the other typos but that just struck me as something you should edit...

OT: Tbh, the only anime I've downloaded is dual-audio versions of things I already have, because the Madman dubs are horrendous and I prefer fansubs too (who doesn't?). I hope that doesn't cut into their profit margin too much. I agree about the trickle down theory, it doesn't help that the movie or entertainment industry as a whole has so many low-paid unsung heroes in every epic (or crappy) production. One can only hope there would be more recognition, or at least remuneration, for the hard work that goes into so many aspects of making games/music/anime/movies. Stuntmen/women putting their lives on the line, programmers, motion capture talents, voice overs, 3D artists, illustrators, the list goes on...
 

jesskit

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I think in this case it can be blurred. Sometimes people want to watch it now. Which is just the its there i deserve it attitude. Sometimes people dont want to pay for it. Sigh this has been done to death. Many people I know however download anime that is subbed that either they cannot get a decent subbed version in Australia (yes not USA) or its not released outside of Japan. Also many of the versions that come from USA to here have been edited in some way and they dont feel they are getting the correct version. Take DBZ for example. I know many people that have downloaded an original subbed version because it contains the full story.

To take from extra credits, if it simply is not avaliable in your country then it should be ok. this should include, if its original is not avaliable it should be ok because sometimes the originial gives you more than an edited version. this can be important for cultural buffs etc.
 

Navvan

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Short answer, purchase a subscription to netflix/crunchy-roll and buy what you like.

My personal solution to this dilemma is to watch what I want by whatever means I can. I then grade what I watch based on a personally created criteria that suits my own interests. I then buy whatever scores over a 90 (out of 100) the moment it becomes available, so long as it is within the budget. Anything that I liked I buy if/when I see it at a discounted price that I feel is worth it.

Some may say I'm a thief and they are right. But I respond with the following. I have a crunchy-roll and a netflix account. When an anime is available on those sites I watch them. The animes that pass the above criteria I purchase. If something interests me, but the only options I have to watch it are by illegal means, I'm going to watch it by those means.
 

Veldel

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My main thing with anime is I cant for the love of god stand english dubs I need a good fan translation group for animes.

I do buy animes when I can since alot of good ones are never released here in US oh and I love Netflix i dont think il ever cancel it
 

Technicolor

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Well in honesty, most people just watch any particular anime free on the internet, myself being a offender.

This is primarily why dubbing companies are going out of business, and general anime merchandise sales dipping as well.

Its extremely hard for a new show to establish a fan base willing to pay for the DVD, at least without a airing on adult swim. One thing I've noticed is the lack of piracy involving Dragonball Z & Pokemon.

In America,these are two well established franchises that regularly air on TV. So with an easy to access outlet already provided, most feel no need to pirate.

This is extremely noticeable with Dragon Ball Z Kai (which essentially an HiDef remastering of DBZ, now with all of the shitty filler cut out), garners high rating on Nicktoons network, a channel where absolutely no other anime present (Unless you count Avatar)

Compare this to Full Metal Alchemist, or Bleach, both of which are large franchises but have yet to establish themselves in America, so they have to compete with Family Guy reruns. And said reruns gets two to three times the number of views each day.

Really without any marketing exposure, or media outlet, any Television series falls under risk of piracy.

Only rarely are such acts truly justified and as I said, I am a offender
 

kasperbbs

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Only thing anime i can watch on TV is dragon ball (with a horrid voice over by one man) and theres no place to buy any anime related dvd's, so i torrent it. Shipping from amazon would take from 15 to 27 days and transition from USD to LTL is messed up. Also F#$% english dub or nay other, i prefer original audio with fansubs.
 

Michelle Weiss

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Bara_no_Hime said:
saint of m said:
Um... it the anime hasn't been picked up in, let's say, the USA, then how can one living in the USA purchase it legally?

I have legally purchased every single anime that I own for the purpose of supporting it's creators and letting the US anime industry know what I like.

My problem comes with shows that have never been, nor likely will ever be released in the USA.

Do I download them?

Do I buy a pirate DVD from someone in Hong Kong?

What should a fan do when the show doesn't exist as a legal, commercially released product?
have you ever thought of buying the japanese DVD they usually come with english subtitles

*make sure they do i found that out the hard way. that's how i bought the special edition of black rock shooter and how i bought oreimo
 

Debirufisshu

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I know that some anime boxsets are available in the UK but the prices are bloody rediculous, and I hate english dubs, and even the subs are sometimes bastardised. So I find that the best quality subs are fansubs... when they arn't being dicks *cough* [gg] *cough*
 

Steppin Razor

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If the legal streaming sites would license series for Australia, I could use them. As it currently stands, they don't. So I have to either buy the DVDs (what I normally do, as my shelves stacked with anime can attest to) or go to all manner of legally grey websites to stream/download it.

Michelle Weiss said:
have you ever thought of buying the japanese DVD they usually come with english subtitles
Not really, no. Japanese anime DVDs with English subs are the exception, not the norm.
 

FalseMemorySyndrome

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Why should we buy it? It's not like the makers of it actually expect profit from outside Asia.

And then, there's the fact that retail stores severely overprice it. Why should I cough up £50 for the first thirty episodes of a series I might not even like?

You're also forgetting that many anime fans watch anime released that day from Japan. So? Are we suppose to wait years for a series which may or may not be released outside of Asia?