Anime is not a genra, and this is why. Enough uninformed hatred from both sides.

[justnotcricket]

I cannot believe people worry about this! Just enjoy your anime/film/cartoon whatever. It doesn't matter what other people think it is. They're not stopping you from watching it are they? Even if someone calls it a cartoon, they're not necessarily disparaging the artistic medium, they might just prefer the term cartoon - especially if the anime is caricatured/stylised or comical or made for children.

As for bridging the gap between animation and film...I think animated films do that quite nicely. Especially ones like The Illusionist or Grave of the Fireflies and others. They are clearly animated, but are just as clearly serious films. So was Up, and that is, I guess, still another type of animated film, namely CG animated film.

I still don't get why it matters though?

 

[Sanglyon]

Here in France, people refers to anime as "manga"... because one of the first company to import those in the 80's was called "Manga Video". Isn't that awful ?!

The terms used is "dessin animé" (animated drawing) and applies to cartoons, anime or european series (like City of gold, Inspector Gadget, Molly Racer, Wakfu,...). For a full-lenght movie, it's sometimes called "film d'animation" (animation movie). The term "film" gives some "seriousness" that can help showing it's intended to adult.

However, there are plenty of people that can't understand that an adult story can be told in animated form. I have seen plenty of mom bringing their preteen kids to "Princess Mononoke" and having to leave when they start crying. But it's getting better. There were no kids in the cinema for "Paprika".

Anyway, my point is that Anime isn't a genre, it's the japanese term for cartoon, like "dessin animé" is is french. I'm pretty sure Japanese people don't call the Simpsons "karotuun" (or whatever the katakana spelling is), but something like "american anime". Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Aurgelmir]

However, there are plenty of people that can't understand that an adult story can be told in animated form. I have seen plenty of mom bringing their preteen kids to "Princess Mononoke" and having to leave when they start crying. But it's getting better. There were no kids in the cinema for "Paprika".

That is one thing, but a friend of mine work in a Comicbook/Video store and he has at one occasion have to try and explain to a Grandma why it was a bad idea for her Grandchild to buy the Hentai movie he wanted. The store had at some occasions carried Hentai, due to people asking them to order specific films, but never came to pick them up, so the store would put it in a glass showing case together with the box sets and other things they don't want people touching.

So this kid had seen the film, and wanted to buy it, having absolutely no idea what it was about (I think it had Ninjas on the cover). The grandmothers reasoning was "but its only a cartoon".

try explaining that one without using the word "porn".

 

[Jonluw]

I'll just copy what I wrote in another thread:

Anime is a sub-genre of cartoons, that goes without saying. However, it is implied when saying 'cartoons' that you refer to western cartoons which very rarely handle adult subjects or have any emotional depth. Therefore many fans of anime find it offensive when anime is grouped in with western animation.

In the west, cartoons are seen as only capable of catering to children (spongebob etc.) or being light hearted comedy with perhaps some social satire (The Simpsons, South park etc.). Many fans of anime are trying to fight this view that animated material is not serious (think of it like the "games are art" conflict), and as such do not like the use of the word 'cartoon' when referring to material with emotional depth.

In other words: Anime differs greatly from people's connotations with the word 'cartoon', so while it is technically an appropriate term (moving drawings) the fans would not like to have the uninitiated think of anime as cartoons, since that would mean introducing them to the medium would be impossible, seeing how they will think of it as cartoons and never take it seriously.
It is actually rather annoying. The single most moving experience of my life was an anime, and I would so much like to let others experience it as well, but there is no way of getting them to accept it.

 

[Azure Sky]

"Genre" not "Genra". Just to spare other people from heckling you about it.

Anime are cartoons, because cartoon animations are cartoons, and Anime is cartoon animations. Objective fact.

Genre similarities between Anime and regular film are identical, more or less.

That's all. Didn't think we needed another one of these threads tbh. Couldn't this rant have been put in any of the existing threads?

They can heckle all they want, if they want to get off topic in that manner that is not my problem. =3

Cartoons are Animations, not the other way around, this is the misunderstanding I believe most people have.

I actually did drop a mini-rant into the thread I mentioned above, but decided against a full derail, which is what it would have been and just put it here where hopefully more people would see it in context.

Personally I have a bit of a problem with using the word cartoon to describe a serious dramatic piece of animation because of what the word cartoon implies, at least in the mind of the general public. To non animation buffs, the image the word cartoon implies is a comedic animated program intended for children. It causes people to not look at a piece of animation seriously, and I think that it further reinforces the animation age ghetto that is such a problem (ESPECIALLY in the west)

Agreed, this is one of the mine things that gets under my skin.
Especially when you try and call say... Ghost in the Shell a cartoon.
Not only would you be wrong, you would be insulting its near-genre perfect film relation, The Matrix. They are both an Adult Themed quasi-futuristic sci-fi fantasy. =3

Animated cartoon: a motion picture that is made from a series of drawings, computer graphics, or photographs of inanimate objects (as puppets) and that simulates movement by slight progressive changes in each frame.

Anime are animated cartoons. Fact.

Accept this fact, and accept the fact that being a cartoon is not a negative thing, or continue to fight a futile, silly battle against the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

Aaand this is the perfect example of why I made this thread, thank you for justifying my reasoning for posting it so clearly. =3

"Animation is the rapid display of a sequence of images of 2-D or 3-D artwork or model positions in order to create an illusion of movement. The effect is an optical illusion of motion due to the phenomenon of persistence of vision, and can be created and demonstrated in several ways. The most common method of presenting animation is as a motion picture or video program, although there are other methods."

And now that is settled, thank you for playing and have a nice day. =3

 

[Azure Sky]

Anime are cartoons just like american animation are cartoons. Its as simple as that, don't get all prenchy about it.

...Which are both known as the higher medium of Animation.

Is it really that hard to grasp...?

 

[MacGuges]

I cannot believe people worry about this! Just enjoy your anime/film/cartoon whatever. It doesn't matter what other people think it is. They're not stopping you from watching it are they? Even if someone calls it a cartoon, they're not necessarily disparaging the artistic medium, they might just prefer the term cartoon - especially if the anime is caricatured/stylised or comical or made for children.

As for bridging the gap between animation and film...I think animated films do that quite nicely. Especially ones like The Illusionist or Grave of the Fireflies and others. They are clearly animated, but are just as clearly serious films. So was Up, and that is, I guess, still another type of animated film, namely CG animated film.

I still don't get why it matters though?

Evidently Azure Sky's motivation is to promote anime. I guess he has the impression that those who call anime a genre do so to minimize it, so he wants to draw attention to multiple genres represented within anime.

I happen to think he's incorrect about his definitions, but I do appreciate his sentiment. I've been an anime fan for twenty years and I still encounter people who won't take it seriously.

 

[PhiMed]

"Genre" not "Genra". Just to spare other people from heckling you about it.

Anime are cartoons, because cartoon animations are cartoons, and Anime is cartoon animations. Objective fact.

Genre similarities between Anime and regular film are identical, more or less.

That's all. Didn't think we needed another one of these threads tbh. Couldn't this rant have been put in any of the existing threads?

They can heckle all they want, if they want to get off topic in that manner that is not my problem. =3

Cartoons are Animations, not the other way around, this is the misunderstanding I believe most people have.

I actually did drop a mini-rant into the thread I mentioned above, but decided against a full derail, which is what it would have been and just put it here where hopefully more people would see it in context.

Personally I have a bit of a problem with using the word cartoon to describe a serious dramatic piece of animation because of what the word cartoon implies, at least in the mind of the general public. To non animation buffs, the image the word cartoon implies is a comedic animated program intended for children. It causes people to not look at a piece of animation seriously, and I think that it further reinforces the animation age ghetto that is such a problem (ESPECIALLY in the west)

Agreed, this is one of the mine things that gets under my skin.
Especially when you try and call say... Ghost in the Shell a cartoon.
Not only would you be wrong, you would be insulting its near-genre perfect film relation, The Matrix. They are both an Adult Themed quasi-futuristic sci-fi fantasy. =3

Animated cartoon: a motion picture that is made from a series of drawings, computer graphics, or photographs of inanimate objects (as puppets) and that simulates movement by slight progressive changes in each frame.

Anime are animated cartoons. Fact.

Accept this fact, and accept the fact that being a cartoon is not a negative thing, or continue to fight a futile, silly battle against the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

Aaand this is the perfect example of why I made this thread, thank you for justifying my reasoning for posting it so clearly. =3

"Animation is the rapid display of a sequence of images of 2-D or 3-D artwork or model positions in order to create an illusion of movement. The effect is an optical illusion of motion due to the phenomenon of persistence of vision, and can be created and demonstrated in several ways. The most common method of presenting animation is as a motion picture or video program, although there are other methods."

And now that is settled, thank you for playing and have a nice day. =3

You didn't settle anything. You just posted a description of animation. You didn't dispute anything I said, and Anime still fits the definition of "animated cartoon" as listed in the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

 

[Azure Sky]

"Genre" not "Genra". Just to spare other people from heckling you about it.

Anime are cartoons, because cartoon animations are cartoons, and Anime is cartoon animations. Objective fact.

Genre similarities between Anime and regular film are identical, more or less.

That's all. Didn't think we needed another one of these threads tbh. Couldn't this rant have been put in any of the existing threads?

They can heckle all they want, if they want to get off topic in that manner that is not my problem. =3

Cartoons are Animations, not the other way around, this is the misunderstanding I believe most people have.

I actually did drop a mini-rant into the thread I mentioned above, but decided against a full derail, which is what it would have been and just put it here where hopefully more people would see it in context.

Personally I have a bit of a problem with using the word cartoon to describe a serious dramatic piece of animation because of what the word cartoon implies, at least in the mind of the general public. To non animation buffs, the image the word cartoon implies is a comedic animated program intended for children. It causes people to not look at a piece of animation seriously, and I think that it further reinforces the animation age ghetto that is such a problem (ESPECIALLY in the west)

Agreed, this is one of the mine things that gets under my skin.
Especially when you try and call say... Ghost in the Shell a cartoon.
Not only would you be wrong, you would be insulting its near-genre perfect film relation, The Matrix. They are both an Adult Themed quasi-futuristic sci-fi fantasy. =3

Animated cartoon: a motion picture that is made from a series of drawings, computer graphics, or photographs of inanimate objects (as puppets) and that simulates movement by slight progressive changes in each frame.

Anime are animated cartoons. Fact.

Accept this fact, and accept the fact that being a cartoon is not a negative thing, or continue to fight a futile, silly battle against the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

Aaand this is the perfect example of why I made this thread, thank you for justifying my reasoning for posting it so clearly. =3

"Animation is the rapid display of a sequence of images of 2-D or 3-D artwork or model positions in order to create an illusion of movement. The effect is an optical illusion of motion due to the phenomenon of persistence of vision, and can be created and demonstrated in several ways. The most common method of presenting animation is as a motion picture or video program, although there are other methods."

And now that is settled, thank you for playing and have a nice day. =3

You didn't settle anything. You just posted a description of animation. You didn't dispute anything I said, and Anime still fits the definition of "animated cartoon" as listed in the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

And as said, the definition is that animated cartoon is called such because it is an animation and citing only one (Most likely biased/knowledge lacking) reference as gospel to try and shift that merely proves arrogance.

Take my advice and stop trying to troll in light of present evidence.

 

[PhiMed]

"Genre" not "Genra". Just to spare other people from heckling you about it.

Anime are cartoons, because cartoon animations are cartoons, and Anime is cartoon animations. Objective fact.

Genre similarities between Anime and regular film are identical, more or less.

That's all. Didn't think we needed another one of these threads tbh. Couldn't this rant have been put in any of the existing threads?

They can heckle all they want, if they want to get off topic in that manner that is not my problem. =3

Cartoons are Animations, not the other way around, this is the misunderstanding I believe most people have.

I actually did drop a mini-rant into the thread I mentioned above, but decided against a full derail, which is what it would have been and just put it here where hopefully more people would see it in context.

Personally I have a bit of a problem with using the word cartoon to describe a serious dramatic piece of animation because of what the word cartoon implies, at least in the mind of the general public. To non animation buffs, the image the word cartoon implies is a comedic animated program intended for children. It causes people to not look at a piece of animation seriously, and I think that it further reinforces the animation age ghetto that is such a problem (ESPECIALLY in the west)

Agreed, this is one of the mine things that gets under my skin.
Especially when you try and call say... Ghost in the Shell a cartoon.
Not only would you be wrong, you would be insulting its near-genre perfect film relation, The Matrix. They are both an Adult Themed quasi-futuristic sci-fi fantasy. =3

Animated cartoon: a motion picture that is made from a series of drawings, computer graphics, or photographs of inanimate objects (as puppets) and that simulates movement by slight progressive changes in each frame.

Anime are animated cartoons. Fact.

Accept this fact, and accept the fact that being a cartoon is not a negative thing, or continue to fight a futile, silly battle against the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

Aaand this is the perfect example of why I made this thread, thank you for justifying my reasoning for posting it so clearly. =3

"Animation is the rapid display of a sequence of images of 2-D or 3-D artwork or model positions in order to create an illusion of movement. The effect is an optical illusion of motion due to the phenomenon of persistence of vision, and can be created and demonstrated in several ways. The most common method of presenting animation is as a motion picture or video program, although there are other methods."

And now that is settled, thank you for playing and have a nice day. =3

You didn't settle anything. You just posted a description of animation. You didn't dispute anything I said, and Anime still fits the definition of "animated cartoon" as listed in the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

And as said, the definition is that animated cartoon is called such because it is an animation and citing only one (Most likely biased/knowledge lacking) reference as gospel to try and shift that merely proves arrogance.

Take my advice and stop trying to troll in light of present evidence.

I doubt most people would consider the Merriam Webster English Dictionary to be an unreliable source. It's pretty much the de facto standard when it comes to general English language definitions, so saying that I'm trolling when you're clearly in the wrong just proves to me definitively that you're guilty of everything of which you're accusing others.

You only presented one source, and you didn't even say where your quotation came from. You just put it in quotation marks and expected me to accept it as evidence without even telling me where you got it. You ignore a definition from an international standard, but give an uncited quote, and declare victory? Lol at accusations of trollery.

 

[Azure Sky]

I doubt most people would consider the Merriam Webster English Dictionary to be an unreliable source. It's pretty much the de facto standard when it comes to general English language definitions, so saying that I'm trolling when you're clearly in the wrong just proves to me definitively that you're guilty of everything of which you're accusing others.

You only presented one source, and you didn't even say where your quotation came from. You just put it in quotation marks and expected me to accept it as evidence without even telling me where you got it. You ignore a definition from an international standard, but give an uncited quote, and declare victory? Lol at accusations of trollery.

And you still carry on, you have been asked once, I am not asking again.

But for the sake of baiting the troll, and the knowledge you can't answer it.

Where does cartoons come into something that's been around since 180AD?

 

[Trolldor]

I doubt most people would consider the Merriam Webster English Dictionary to be an unreliable source. It's pretty much the de facto standard when it comes to general English language definitions, so saying that I'm trolling when you're clearly in the wrong just proves to me definitively that you're guilty of everything of which you're accusing others.

You only presented one source, and you didn't even say where your quotation came from. You just put it in quotation marks and expected me to accept it as evidence without even telling me where you got it. You ignore a definition from an international standard, but give an uncited quote, and declare victory? Lol at accusations of trollery.

And you still carry on, you have been asked once, I am not asking again.

But for the sake of baiting the troll, and the knowledge you can't answer it.

Where does cartoons come into something that's been around since 180AD?

Anime is a distinct genre. It is as much a genre as it is a tree.

 

[Azure Sky]

I doubt most people would consider the Merriam Webster English Dictionary to be an unreliable source. It's pretty much the de facto standard when it comes to general English language definitions, so saying that I'm trolling when you're clearly in the wrong just proves to me definitively that you're guilty of everything of which you're accusing others.

You only presented one source, and you didn't even say where your quotation came from. You just put it in quotation marks and expected me to accept it as evidence without even telling me where you got it. You ignore a definition from an international standard, but give an uncited quote, and declare victory? Lol at accusations of trollery.

And you still carry on, you have been asked once, I am not asking again.

But for the sake of baiting the troll, and the knowledge you can't answer it.

Where does cartoons come into something that's been around since 180AD?

Anime is a distinct genre. It is as much a genre as it is a tree.

Anime is slang for animation from Japan.
Animation is a medium.
Anime is not a Tree. =(

 

[Trolldor]

I doubt most people would consider the Merriam Webster English Dictionary to be an unreliable source. It's pretty much the de facto standard when it comes to general English language definitions, so saying that I'm trolling when you're clearly in the wrong just proves to me definitively that you're guilty of everything of which you're accusing others.

You only presented one source, and you didn't even say where your quotation came from. You just put it in quotation marks and expected me to accept it as evidence without even telling me where you got it. You ignore a definition from an international standard, but give an uncited quote, and declare victory? Lol at accusations of trollery.

And you still carry on, you have been asked once, I am not asking again.

But for the sake of baiting the troll, and the knowledge you can't answer it.

Where does cartoons come into something that's been around since 180AD?

Anime is a distinct genre. It is as much a genre as it is a tree.

Anime is slang for animation from Japan.
Animation is a medium.
Anime is not a Tree. =(

Forgot to add 'resin' at the end.
It is a tree resin.

Anyway:

Japanese Animation is characterised by particular stylistic choices, with various colours representing specific things, along with hairstyles blah blah blah.

Anime is a genre because it is very obviously and noticably distinct from 'traditional' Western Animation.

Compare Homer Simpson to any male anime character.

 

[Viking Incognito]

That was informative and funny! Good job!

 

[PhiMed]

I doubt most people would consider the Merriam Webster English Dictionary to be an unreliable source. It's pretty much the de facto standard when it comes to general English language definitions, so saying that I'm trolling when you're clearly in the wrong just proves to me definitively that you're guilty of everything of which you're accusing others.

You only presented one source, and you didn't even say where your quotation came from. You just put it in quotation marks and expected me to accept it as evidence without even telling me where you got it. You ignore a definition from an international standard, but give an uncited quote, and declare victory? Lol at accusations of trollery.

And you still carry on, you have been asked once, I am not asking again.

But for the sake of baiting the troll, and the knowledge you can't answer it.

Where does cartoons come into something that's been around since 180AD?

And I would answer it, if it weren't so poorly phrased as to be incomprehensible. What the hell are you asking there? Is there an actual question in that grammatical quagmire? Static cartoons have been around since at least 1500 B.C., so I'm not really sure what the age of animation has to do with it.

I think that your assertion is that "because they are animations, they cannot be cartoons". I think this is why you gave me an uncited definition of animation (that never uses the word cartoon) as proof that anime are not cartoons. I guess you're saying that animation is older than cartoons, so therefore cartoons are subservient to animation. Either way, you're wrong in just about every way imaginable.

This line of logic reminds me a of a story. Sit down. You might learn something.

When I was in high school, there was a mentally challenged kid with language difficulties who got into a fight. When he was asked why he struck the other child, he said, "because he was lying." They asked him what the other child was lying about, and he said, "That Toyota Camry." You see, the other child had called it a car.

This kid couldn't grasp the concepts of categorical nouns and synonyms. So, to him, it was incomprehensible that the words car, vehicle, ride, sedan, automobile, etc. could describe the same thing. To him, it was a Toyota Camry, and any other name for it was a lie.

You remind me of that kid.

"No, it's not a car! It's a Toyota Camry! Those aren't dolls! They're action figures! It's not a cartoon! It's an animated film!"

Whatever, man. Brush up on your English.

 

[Trolldor]

Anime is a medium, much like cartoons (due to an entirely different set of standard tropes, they are two different mediums), film, theater, video games, books and everything I've forgotten. Every medium has certain tropes, and that is what defines them. These differing tropes are what makes Anime and Manga different mediums from Animation/Cartoons and Comics. But yes, anime is not a genre. A list of Anime Tropes [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnimeTropes].

Text is a medium but it can be delivered through the Novel which is both a medium and a genre because it has distinct characteristics.

It's a bit fucking weird, but that's how this shit works.

 

[Azure Sky]

I doubt most people would consider the Merriam Webster English Dictionary to be an unreliable source. It's pretty much the de facto standard when it comes to general English language definitions, so saying that I'm trolling when you're clearly in the wrong just proves to me definitively that you're guilty of everything of which you're accusing others.

You only presented one source, and you didn't even say where your quotation came from. You just put it in quotation marks and expected me to accept it as evidence without even telling me where you got it. You ignore a definition from an international standard, but give an uncited quote, and declare victory? Lol at accusations of trollery.

And you still carry on, you have been asked once, I am not asking again.

But for the sake of baiting the troll, and the knowledge you can't answer it.

Where does cartoons come into something that's been around since 180AD?

Anime is a distinct genre. It is as much a genre as it is a tree.

Anime is slang for animation from Japan.
Animation is a medium.
Anime is not a Tree. =(

Forgot to add 'resin' at the end.
It is a tree resin.

Anyway:

Japanese Animation is characterised by particular stylistic choices, with various colours representing specific things, along with hairstyles blah blah blah.

Anime is a genre because it is very obviously and noticably distinct from 'traditional' Western Animation.

Compare Homer Simpson to any male anime character.

I dunno, the tree comment was pretty funny.

As for the style choices...

Spoiler: Image

It really is as varied as you can get.

As far as western, Avatar: The Last Airbender was western =3

 

[Azure Sky]

~Snip because this is getting stupid~

And I would answer it, if it weren't so poorly phrased as to be incomprehensible. What the hell are you asking there? Is there an actual question in that grammatical quagmire? Static cartoons have been around since at least 1500 B.C., so I'm not really sure what the age of animation has to do with it.

I think that your assertion is that "because they are animations, they cannot be cartoons". I think this is why you gave me an uncited definition of animation (that never uses the word cartoon) as proof that anime are not cartoons. I guess you're saying that animation is older than cartoons, so therefore cartoons are subservient to animation. Either way, you're wrong in just about every way imaginable.

This line of logic reminds me a of a story. Sit down. You might learn something.

When I was in high school, there was a mentally challenged kid with language difficulties who got into a fight. When he was asked why he struck the other child, he said, "because he was lying." They asked him what the other child was lying about, and he said, "That Toyota Camry." You see, the other child had called it a car.

This kid couldn't grasp the concepts of categorical nouns and synonyms. So, to him, it was incomprehensible that the words car, vehicle, ride, sedan, automobile, etc. could describe the same thing. To him, it was a Toyota Camry, and any other name for it was a lie.

You remind me of that kid.

"No, it's not a car! It's a Toyota Camry! Those aren't dolls! They're action figures! It's not a cartoon! It's an animated film!"

Whatever, man. Brush up on your English.[/quote]

So now you are picking at my post layout? Are you really that petty?
I'm sure I'm not the only one here that can see you digging your own pit of pathetic, leave while you are behind, seriously.