Anonymous has a plan
- Thread starter Hammartroll
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Yeah, learn to grow our own food - can't hurt right?
Except that organic food cannot sustain the population of the Earth. I've done research in to this: Organic farms are INCREDIBLY inefficient. If everyone shifted to organic farming, huge segments of the population would up and die of starvation because growing your own food isn't easy and it isn't as cheap as you think.
Okay, let's say everyone has their own garden for which to grow food. Do you actually realize how difficult it is to maintain a large crop? Without proper equipment (which costs money to manufacture and maintain and fuel to operate?), it is VERY difficult to keep pests out, and to ensure that the crops grow well.
But let's say you can grow all your own food - can your neighbours? What if they have bad soil? What if they have a 9-5 job and CAN'T take the time out to grow and look after their crops? Farming is a serious business - it's not "Hey, take a few carrot seeds and put em into the ground!" You might be able to grow your crops successfully once - that doesn't mean you always will or that your neighbours always will. That is why we need large, multiple farms because we need safeguards against drought, floods, bad soil and disease.
If you knew even a shred of history you'd realize that people in "ye olden days" didn't have it so nice. Starvation was a very, very real risk 600 years ago and a LOT of people died from it. If things really were so great and wonderful back in the primitive ages, why did we need to invent technology? If humanity truly WAS so happy and joyful back in the medieval ages, why is it that the population of Earth increased from just over 1 billion, to very nearly 7 billion now, in the space of only a few decades? Back in the 1950's, the Earth's population was a grand 3 Billion. Back in the 1900's, it was over 1 Billion. Over 250,000 years of human civilization, using "traditional farming methods" only got us to 1 Billion, but NOW, with SCIENCE we have extended the human lifespan to the amount that we now have nearly 7 billion on this earth. Science, Engineering and Modern Agriculture have done more to save human lives in 50 years than all the stupid ancient farmers managed to do in over 250,000 years, and that's an indisputable FACT. There exists NO OTHER explanation for the massive population increase. You can argue that over-population is a problem, and I agree with you, but you can't argue with the fact that modern agriculture and science has given humanity more than it has ever had at any other period of time in history.
So no - we don't need to grow our own food. That is what the farm is for. Just like we don't need to skin our own animals to make leather clothes, agriculture has become a specialized practice. I've been eating modern food my entire life. I'm not sick nor do I have cancer, and neither does anyone I know.
As for the whole "Get us back to the gold standard" - why? Why is gold seen as something so valuable? You realize that intrinsically, gold is not the most valuable mineral on earth. Platinum actually has more industrial applications - so why not shift to the platinum standard? Gold is rare and shiny - it has a few industrial applications but on the whole, it isn't that useful. Neither is silver. People just declared that these minerals had value because they were used in jewellery.
Tying wealth to gold is just stupid, since there's far to wealth than gold. Wealth can be found in almost any material good, and sometimes in non-material things like information. It's a bit silly to say "I'm worth the amount of gold I have in my bank". I don't have a single gram of gold but I have a lot of material possessions and I have a wealth of knowledge in my brain that's worth more than gold.
This fascination with gold continues to perplex me - it's not, when you get down to it, really all that valuable. It's only people's PERCEPTION of gold that makes it valuable. Diamonds are rarer and even more valuable - why don't we shift to the Diamond Standard!? Because that would be stupid.
If you say that modern currency is worth nothing because it is based on perception, realize that gold is only valuable because of perception. Honestly, Uranium is worth more than gold. Coal is worth more than gold. Platinum has more industrial applications than gold.
Except that organic food cannot sustain the population of the Earth. I've done research in to this: Organic farms are INCREDIBLY inefficient. If everyone shifted to organic farming, huge segments of the population would up and die of starvation because growing your own food isn't easy and it isn't as cheap as you think.
Okay, let's say everyone has their own garden for which to grow food. Do you actually realize how difficult it is to maintain a large crop? Without proper equipment (which costs money to manufacture and maintain and fuel to operate?), it is VERY difficult to keep pests out, and to ensure that the crops grow well.
But let's say you can grow all your own food - can your neighbours? What if they have bad soil? What if they have a 9-5 job and CAN'T take the time out to grow and look after their crops? Farming is a serious business - it's not "Hey, take a few carrot seeds and put em into the ground!" You might be able to grow your crops successfully once - that doesn't mean you always will or that your neighbours always will. That is why we need large, multiple farms because we need safeguards against drought, floods, bad soil and disease.
If you knew even a shred of history you'd realize that people in "ye olden days" didn't have it so nice. Starvation was a very, very real risk 600 years ago and a LOT of people died from it. If things really were so great and wonderful back in the primitive ages, why did we need to invent technology? If humanity truly WAS so happy and joyful back in the medieval ages, why is it that the population of Earth increased from just over 1 billion, to very nearly 7 billion now, in the space of only a few decades? Back in the 1950's, the Earth's population was a grand 3 Billion. Back in the 1900's, it was over 1 Billion. Over 250,000 years of human civilization, using "traditional farming methods" only got us to 1 Billion, but NOW, with SCIENCE we have extended the human lifespan to the amount that we now have nearly 7 billion on this earth. Science, Engineering and Modern Agriculture have done more to save human lives in 50 years than all the stupid ancient farmers managed to do in over 250,000 years, and that's an indisputable FACT. There exists NO OTHER explanation for the massive population increase. You can argue that over-population is a problem, and I agree with you, but you can't argue with the fact that modern agriculture and science has given humanity more than it has ever had at any other period of time in history.
So no - we don't need to grow our own food. That is what the farm is for. Just like we don't need to skin our own animals to make leather clothes, agriculture has become a specialized practice. I've been eating modern food my entire life. I'm not sick nor do I have cancer, and neither does anyone I know.
As for the whole "Get us back to the gold standard" - why? Why is gold seen as something so valuable? You realize that intrinsically, gold is not the most valuable mineral on earth. Platinum actually has more industrial applications - so why not shift to the platinum standard? Gold is rare and shiny - it has a few industrial applications but on the whole, it isn't that useful. Neither is silver. People just declared that these minerals had value because they were used in jewellery.
Tying wealth to gold is just stupid, since there's far to wealth than gold. Wealth can be found in almost any material good, and sometimes in non-material things like information. It's a bit silly to say "I'm worth the amount of gold I have in my bank". I don't have a single gram of gold but I have a lot of material possessions and I have a wealth of knowledge in my brain that's worth more than gold.
This fascination with gold continues to perplex me - it's not, when you get down to it, really all that valuable. It's only people's PERCEPTION of gold that makes it valuable. Diamonds are rarer and even more valuable - why don't we shift to the Diamond Standard!? Because that would be stupid.
If you say that modern currency is worth nothing because it is based on perception, realize that gold is only valuable because of perception. Honestly, Uranium is worth more than gold. Coal is worth more than gold. Platinum has more industrial applications than gold.
Seriously, I think you (and Anon for that matter) need to grow up, someone else is controlling our civilisation, oh no, a revolution is in order. No, being controlled is not a bad thing, let the government handle things, as long as I get to make myself enough money to survive, and thrive, what more could I ask for...Hammartroll said:
Also, who says that destabilising the government will make us better off, faceless idealists? oh please, why do you think they are considered rebels, because they are 'the good guys'?
I think Anon is just pissed off because they cant do whatever the hell they want, like pirating and hacking and other illegal activities.
Educate yourself on world issues, specifically oppression. Raise awareness for these acts in your area. Learn to grow your own food and invest in precious metals as opposed to stocks. Discuss these issues with like minded people, and see what action can be taken to change the world so the individual has more freedom.
I like these ideas. Whether or not it is from Anonymous is irrelevant. Individuals raising awareness for injustices has had proven and noticeable effects. Even people just signing internet polls can prevent cruel laws (such as a death penalty for homosexuality) from being passed.
Perhaps it's a fool's dream. Perhaps what they desire is the impossible.
But is it so wrong to have an ideal and work towards it? To always seek out how to amke something better?
Isn't that how we move forward?
I like these ideas. Whether or not it is from Anonymous is irrelevant. Individuals raising awareness for injustices has had proven and noticeable effects. Even people just signing internet polls can prevent cruel laws (such as a death penalty for homosexuality) from being passed.
Perhaps it's a fool's dream. Perhaps what they desire is the impossible.
But is it so wrong to have an ideal and work towards it? To always seek out how to amke something better?
Isn't that how we move forward?
Really that was just one of the biggest loads of bull I've heard in a while, ok so government is creating all of our problems so without them we'll have a utopia really? Its a delusion message by people who've found the "truth" any non factual "truth" is merely a matter of opinion like that we are being oppressed.
Well, In a way I agree with this notion. Too many people have no clue how to survive without the benefit of commercial sectors and industrial sectors providing for people. Hell there are people in urban areas who have never even seen a crop, much less know how to produce one. So yes, it is a beneficial skill to learn, even if it is not practical to implement.Korolev said:
As for the gold standard. I sort of agree with the confusion of focusing on gold. Granted gold is an important commodity, However there are plenty of other commodities that are even more lucrative. Copper is for all intents and purposes actually more valuable than gold, for the sheer need and uses we have for copper. Do you see any investment commercials encouraging anyone to invest in copper?
It doesnt seem like ANONs modus operandi. Again I would like to see something like this from Anon. But I want something real, realistic, and more tangible than what this offers.
That opening scene is from a Richard Linklater flick called "Waking Life". It was okay. The "dreamer" thing is because the movie is about lucid dreaming. They used it differently, but that's the back story to that little reference.Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
So not only did they rip off "V" but also Linklater.
The beginning successfully gave me lots of lullz "Hey man I live in a train but I want to give you life advice." And why is is always raining? Even in the stupid internet scenes it was raining numbers.
Psh, if somehow their plan works and they actually make it so that we all have to grow our own food, I'm starting me up a nice band of raiders. We can go from town to town and pick on all the weaker, less armed settlements. As of now, we're recruiting! Anyone wishing to sign up merely put your name on this list. Perspective raiders will be judged on the size of their mohawk, number of skulls on their jacket, and lewdness of their insults when faced with an enemy. Many spots are open (excluding supreme overlord) so sign up today!
You do realize gold has roughly the same value as our fiat currency which is whatever people believe its worth besides industrial use gold nor anything has a value beyond what people attach to it. As for growing your own food fine I guess if you want to but to grow enough to sustain yourself or a family is highly unlikely people have that amount of land let alone time, As for places worse than the dark ages your kidding right? The mortality rate is down life expectancy iss up we have more advanced medicine and understanding of commumicable diseases the worst places in the world today even sub sarahan africa are better off than they were 600 years ago.Justank said:
Now I think anonymous have really reached hubris, but at the same time it'd be interesting if this kind of thing actually happened in a large scale. But it won't.
Also, read "The Wealth of Nations" - specialization INCREASES efficiency. If you tried to farm your own food, I bet you wouldn't do very well. Oh sure, you could learn - but are you going to till the soil at sunrise, are you going to gather the crops, plough the dirt, water the fields, irrigate the channels and collect the manure for use as a fertilizer? Are you willing to do that? Because I've got to tell you - that's a full time job. It isn't easy. If you are a doctor, you don't have time to really grow a lot of crops. Oh sure, you can have a small cabbage patch. But you'd better be damn sure your neighbours are willing to lend you some vegetables if you get a pest or a crop disease or if your area experiences a drought! Can't really grow your own food very well if it ain't raining very much! Oh, sure, you can water your garden with that water that the state provides! Except that in an anarchist commune, there is no state and you'd have to go fetch that water yourself.
Anarchists, put your money (although you guys don't believe in money) where your mouth is - go off and found your own commune. Accept no help from the State or our "vast" "corrupt" "evil" civilization. We'll see how long you last or how good a life your children have. You want to live a life that is truly anarchistic? Well go to Brazil and join one of those tribes that remain nearly out of contact with the rest of the world! If you haven't noticed, those guys don't have very long life-expectancies. There's a reason for that: They don't have hospitals.
You want to overthrow society? Okay, say goodbye to modern science. In case you haven't noticed, modern science takes a lot of resources. You can't perform a PCR reaction with a couple of rocks in the wilderness. You can't build the LHC out of HAY and STICKS. You want to say bye-bye to society? Say bye-bye to almost every modern convenience you have. Say bye-bye internet, say bye-bye hospital and MRI machine!
The system is far better than the alternative. Sure, the system has problems. I'm not denying that capitalism is imperfect, it's VERY imperfect and unfair. But no other WORKABLE, LARGE SCALE system has presented itself as a valid alternative. Communism has failed IN EVERY COUNTRY IT HAS EVER BEEN TRIED IN. Don't believe me? Go live in North Korea! Let's see what a happy time you'll have there! Or Cuba!
You want to smash the system? Well you can experience what it would be like to live without the system! Yeah! Right now! You can experience a genuine anarchist lifestyle right now! It's called the jungle! It's called the woods! You want to know what it's like to live without the system! Well go experience it, right now! Move to a desert island, or go camp in the woods for the rest of your life. Move to a jungle, or go to a deserted place in inner Mongolia! You have the power, and it won't cost you a dime!
You can't eat your cake and have it to. You can't enjoy the luxuries the system has provided and angrily demand that it must be destroyed! And these anarchists are lacking in imagination - yes there are problems, but their pessimistic attitude precludes the idea that we could create solutions to those problems with technology. So Oil is running out - build Solar Power Panels! Build Nuclear Power plants! So fish stocks are running low - well, just impose government tariffs on fish to reduce demand!
The solution to our problems is not in the past, it is in the future. These anarchists and anarcho-primitivists imagine that at one point in time we lived in a veritable paradise! They literally believe some version of the Garden-of-Eden myth, Man-before-"the fall" sort of nonsense, they believe that if only we could return to some more primal, past state, everyone and everything would be perfect!
That's nonsense. If the world was perfect in the past, we wouldn't have tried so damn hard to escape it. Want to go back to the past! Okay! Enjoy having 1 in 3 infants die before their second birth day. Enjoy being at the absolute mercy of droughts and natural disasters. Enjoy living a primitive existence in which nothing ever changes and humanity aspires to do nothing more than sit around and eat.
I love my species more than that. Anarchists want us to stand still - I believe we must move forward. We must explore the universe, we must create and imagine and use our brains to the best of our abilities. We need to do science, for without the eternal strive for a better world or a better understanding of the universe we are in, what are we?
And because modern day science requires such enormous resources, I support the system. I can't do science without the system, and I am convinced that without science, human civilization is worthless. Without science, our species is nothing. We already know that the sun will burn out one day - we need to find our way off this blasted rock. Find a new sun and terraform a planet to fit human needs. And you need science for that.
If we go with what the Anarchists want, we are condemning humanity to an inevitable extinction. Nature has killed billions of species in the past, it will have no qualms killing us. Science is our only hope of creating a truly perfect world, a truly immortal species. If we exist only to die, what has been the purpose of existing at all? For our species to have any meaning, we must survive. If we die, imagine what has been lost: Bach, The Principia Mathematica, the Einstein papers, Beethoven, and all, all of our history. The suffering of our ancestors would have been for NOTHING if our species just dies, and without science we surely will, whether it is now, or a million years from now.
I would rather die early in a glorious attempt at something greater, than just subsist and live a meagre existence for the sake of existing. Anarchists want us to go back in time. They are welcome to stay stagnant. The rest of us want the future and the possibilities it holds.
Anarchists, put your money (although you guys don't believe in money) where your mouth is - go off and found your own commune. Accept no help from the State or our "vast" "corrupt" "evil" civilization. We'll see how long you last or how good a life your children have. You want to live a life that is truly anarchistic? Well go to Brazil and join one of those tribes that remain nearly out of contact with the rest of the world! If you haven't noticed, those guys don't have very long life-expectancies. There's a reason for that: They don't have hospitals.
You want to overthrow society? Okay, say goodbye to modern science. In case you haven't noticed, modern science takes a lot of resources. You can't perform a PCR reaction with a couple of rocks in the wilderness. You can't build the LHC out of HAY and STICKS. You want to say bye-bye to society? Say bye-bye to almost every modern convenience you have. Say bye-bye internet, say bye-bye hospital and MRI machine!
The system is far better than the alternative. Sure, the system has problems. I'm not denying that capitalism is imperfect, it's VERY imperfect and unfair. But no other WORKABLE, LARGE SCALE system has presented itself as a valid alternative. Communism has failed IN EVERY COUNTRY IT HAS EVER BEEN TRIED IN. Don't believe me? Go live in North Korea! Let's see what a happy time you'll have there! Or Cuba!
You want to smash the system? Well you can experience what it would be like to live without the system! Yeah! Right now! You can experience a genuine anarchist lifestyle right now! It's called the jungle! It's called the woods! You want to know what it's like to live without the system! Well go experience it, right now! Move to a desert island, or go camp in the woods for the rest of your life. Move to a jungle, or go to a deserted place in inner Mongolia! You have the power, and it won't cost you a dime!
You can't eat your cake and have it to. You can't enjoy the luxuries the system has provided and angrily demand that it must be destroyed! And these anarchists are lacking in imagination - yes there are problems, but their pessimistic attitude precludes the idea that we could create solutions to those problems with technology. So Oil is running out - build Solar Power Panels! Build Nuclear Power plants! So fish stocks are running low - well, just impose government tariffs on fish to reduce demand!
The solution to our problems is not in the past, it is in the future. These anarchists and anarcho-primitivists imagine that at one point in time we lived in a veritable paradise! They literally believe some version of the Garden-of-Eden myth, Man-before-"the fall" sort of nonsense, they believe that if only we could return to some more primal, past state, everyone and everything would be perfect!
That's nonsense. If the world was perfect in the past, we wouldn't have tried so damn hard to escape it. Want to go back to the past! Okay! Enjoy having 1 in 3 infants die before their second birth day. Enjoy being at the absolute mercy of droughts and natural disasters. Enjoy living a primitive existence in which nothing ever changes and humanity aspires to do nothing more than sit around and eat.
I love my species more than that. Anarchists want us to stand still - I believe we must move forward. We must explore the universe, we must create and imagine and use our brains to the best of our abilities. We need to do science, for without the eternal strive for a better world or a better understanding of the universe we are in, what are we?
And because modern day science requires such enormous resources, I support the system. I can't do science without the system, and I am convinced that without science, human civilization is worthless. Without science, our species is nothing. We already know that the sun will burn out one day - we need to find our way off this blasted rock. Find a new sun and terraform a planet to fit human needs. And you need science for that.
If we go with what the Anarchists want, we are condemning humanity to an inevitable extinction. Nature has killed billions of species in the past, it will have no qualms killing us. Science is our only hope of creating a truly perfect world, a truly immortal species. If we exist only to die, what has been the purpose of existing at all? For our species to have any meaning, we must survive. If we die, imagine what has been lost: Bach, The Principia Mathematica, the Einstein papers, Beethoven, and all, all of our history. The suffering of our ancestors would have been for NOTHING if our species just dies, and without science we surely will, whether it is now, or a million years from now.
I would rather die early in a glorious attempt at something greater, than just subsist and live a meagre existence for the sake of existing. Anarchists want us to go back in time. They are welcome to stay stagnant. The rest of us want the future and the possibilities it holds.
Wow...
Hands up if your government is oppressing you and forces you to conform to a system you don't agree to while simultaneously revoking your freedom to do and believe what you want..... nobody..... really?.... but the video made it seem like such a relevant problem.
Serioulsy though, Anon has no idea how revolutions work, you can't free yourself from an oppressor with words, revolutions are won with bullets and torches and angry mobs, sitting in front of a computer screen and downing a few sites won't suddenly force an oppresive system to fucking give up.
I can appreciate what Anon wants to do, but it it really wants to help people it should probably look outside developed countries to the ones that actually have oppressive goverments that strip people of their freedoms, not the US.
Self reliance is a great idea but in today's day and age being completly self reliant would take well over a year to completly wean oneself off the "system", investing in gold in silver is a good idea, at least that's what all the old people tell me, having just completed high school I'm not really savvy when it comes to investing and the economy.
Back to the matter at hand, the video was way to overdramatic and the cinematography was boring and badly executed, the GlaDos voice damn near put me to sleep, and if a fucking stranger accosted me in a railyard I would run the fuck away, so if you're trying to recruit someone for some kind of revolution random railyard meetings aren't a good idea.
Hands up if your government is oppressing you and forces you to conform to a system you don't agree to while simultaneously revoking your freedom to do and believe what you want..... nobody..... really?.... but the video made it seem like such a relevant problem.
Serioulsy though, Anon has no idea how revolutions work, you can't free yourself from an oppressor with words, revolutions are won with bullets and torches and angry mobs, sitting in front of a computer screen and downing a few sites won't suddenly force an oppresive system to fucking give up.
I can appreciate what Anon wants to do, but it it really wants to help people it should probably look outside developed countries to the ones that actually have oppressive goverments that strip people of their freedoms, not the US.
Self reliance is a great idea but in today's day and age being completly self reliant would take well over a year to completly wean oneself off the "system", investing in gold in silver is a good idea, at least that's what all the old people tell me, having just completed high school I'm not really savvy when it comes to investing and the economy.
Back to the matter at hand, the video was way to overdramatic and the cinematography was boring and badly executed, the GlaDos voice damn near put me to sleep, and if a fucking stranger accosted me in a railyard I would run the fuck away, so if you're trying to recruit someone for some kind of revolution random railyard meetings aren't a good idea.
That was quite enjoyable I especially like how the beginning says money rules the world and poor families and people are treated differently and have no opportunities under the current system... yet we should invest in gold? I lol'd. Please anon pick your ideology and stick with it.
It seems its going to be an interesting year. Or one filled with rage if the past year is any indication.
It seems its going to be an interesting year. Or one filled with rage if the past year is any indication.
I've probably already been ninja-ed but anyway:
"Remember, remember the fifth of November,
the gunpowder treason and plot
I know of no reason the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot
,Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes,
'Twas his intent.
To blow up the King and the Parliament.
Three score barrels of powder below.
Poor old England to overthrow.
By God's providence he was catch'd,
With a dark lantern and burning match
Holloa boys, Holloa boys, let the bells ring
Holloa boys, Holloa boys, God save the King!
Hip hip Hoorah!
Hip hip Hoorah!
A penny loaf to feed ol'Pope,
A farthing cheese to choke him.
A pint of beer to rinse it down,
A ****** of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar,'
Burn him like a blazing star.
Burn his body from his head,
Then we'll say: ol'Pope is dead."
"Remember, remember the fifth of November,
the gunpowder treason and plot
I know of no reason the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot
,Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes,
'Twas his intent.
To blow up the King and the Parliament.
Three score barrels of powder below.
Poor old England to overthrow.
By God's providence he was catch'd,
With a dark lantern and burning match
Holloa boys, Holloa boys, let the bells ring
Holloa boys, Holloa boys, God save the King!
Hip hip Hoorah!
Hip hip Hoorah!
A penny loaf to feed ol'Pope,
A farthing cheese to choke him.
A pint of beer to rinse it down,
A ****** of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar,'
Burn him like a blazing star.
Burn his body from his head,
Then we'll say: ol'Pope is dead."
It seems to me (from my admittedly limited worldview/perspective) that there is an intense glorification of the "Revolution" (especially in America), and people just want to feel like they're a part of something bigger than themselves, so they flock to the Tea Party and Anonymous and their pseudo-revolutions to satisfy that drive. On one hand, the ideals in the video sound nice, and will inevitably inspire some people to join the "cause". On the other hand, I don't want to grow my own food. I barely want to leave my house when I'm not at work or school. I'm satisfied with the comfort American society provides me and in the knowledge that MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, society will not collapse in my lifetime.
