Anonymous Sends a Letter to the World

[Dasmaster]

I dont know what this has to do whit making America an easy target for the terrorist??

Assange also released American documents which showed various American sites around the world which, in the words of the document, were "Very important America" (or something like that). It doesn't make America any easier of a target, however it just gives the terrorists a huge number of options which they know know are vulnerable, and are important to America.

There was no reason for Assange to release these documents, I don't care if stuff like that is hidden from me, and I don't know why anyone would. I'm all for Assange leaking documents containing hidden American war crimes/casualties etc. etc. but documents like these, I don't think it's helpful to anyone in any way what-so-ever.

Apparently someone did not agree with you since it would take something seriously offensive to actually commit treason. Have you looked into what these sites is btw? It might be something far more interesting they you initially thought.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Who is anonymous?

A group of cyber-activists originating from 4chan. They've done things like track down people who throw dogs into rivers, Project Chanology, put porn on Youtube. That sort of shit.

 

[Dasmaster]

Who is anonymous?

This is how they portray themselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0WCLKzDFpI

 

[Lizmichi]

I like this Anon's idea and goal but I'm not about to trust them. As I've learned my self, don't trust someone you can't see or hear. However, I won't dismiss this ether. If this anon is true to their words then I see maybe some good coming out of this. Maybe being the key word.

However, if someone wants to make a point show your damn face. When I stand up for something I believe in I show my face.

"To stand faceless to a crowed and ask for change is to stand on uneven ground. However, to show your face is to gain the trust of men and the stability to voice your beliefs."

 

[DSK-]

There is a quote in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri that goes something along the lines of "Be wary of he who denies you information; for in his heart he wishes himself your master".

Whilst I sympathise with their goal of having a censor-free internet, I honestly don't think that DDoS attacks and protests will do anything to deter the likes of the US government or other organisations from doing so.

 

[Dasmaster]

There is a quote in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri that goes something along the lines of "Be wary of he who denies you information; for in his heart he wishes himself your master".

Whilst I sympathise with their goal of having a censor-free internet, I honestly don't think that DDoS attacks and protests will do anything to deter the likes of the US government or other organisations from doing so.

How about spreading proof of war crimes, cover ups and lawsuits? just saying...

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

I dont know what this has to do whit making America an easy target for the terrorist??

Assange also released American documents which showed various American sites around the world which, in the words of the document, were "Very important America" (or something like that). It doesn't make America any easier of a target, however it just gives the terrorists a huge number of options which they know know are vulnerable, and are important to America.

There was no reason for Assange to release these documents, I don't care if stuff like that is hidden from me, and I don't know why anyone would. I'm all for Assange leaking documents containing hidden American war crimes/casualties etc. etc. but documents like these, I don't think it's helpful to anyone in any way what-so-ever.

Apparently someone did not agree with you since it would take something seriously offensive to actually commit treason. Have you looked into what these sites is btw? It might be something far more interesting they you initially thought.

I don't understand what you mean. I didn't say anything about treason? I respect Assange and I think that he is incredibly brave, however I feel that he should think "Are these documents actually going to bring anything interesting to light?" before he actually puts them up. And yes, I have read a great deal of the documents he put up (and I followed wikileaks anyway before this big issue)

 

[RollForInitiative]

I think it's insanely hypocritical to hide behind 'Anonymous' and demand others to give up every little bit of information they want.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call an "oh snap" rebuttal. Very well said.

 

[Dasmaster]

I dont know what this has to do whit making America an easy target for the terrorist??

Assange also released American documents which showed various American sites around the world which, in the words of the document, were "Very important America" (or something like that). It doesn't make America any easier of a target, however it just gives the terrorists a huge number of options which they know know are vulnerable, and are important to America.

There was no reason for Assange to release these documents, I don't care if stuff like that is hidden from me, and I don't know why anyone would. I'm all for Assange leaking documents containing hidden American war crimes/casualties etc. etc. but documents like these, I don't think it's helpful to anyone in any way what-so-ever.

Apparently someone did not agree with you since it would take something seriously offensive to actually commit treason. Have you looked into what these sites is btw? It might be something far more interesting they you initially thought.

I don't understand what you mean. I didn't say anything about treason? I respect Assange and I think that he is incredibly brave, however I feel that he should think "Are these documents actually going to bring anything interesting to light?" before he actually puts them up. And yes, I have read a great deal of the documents he put up (and I followed wikileaks anyway before this big issue)

Well the people that leaks this information is likely to be branded as traitors by there respective countries and in some cases might face death penalty. You need something that you want to share if you are willing to risk this.

 

[DSK-]

There is a quote in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri that goes something along the lines of "Be wary of he who denies you information; for in his heart he wishes himself your master".

Whilst I sympathise with their goal of having a censor-free internet, I honestly don't think that DDoS attacks and protests will do anything to deter the likes of the US government or other organisations from doing so.

How about spreading proof of war crimes, cover ups and lawsuits? just saying...

That's Wikileaks, though.

What I meant was, in reference to their defense of Wikileaks, they would really have to up the ante in order to put up a meaningful fight.

Take the example of the student protests in the UK. People are protesting both peacefully and violently because the cost of going to university will go up. Many people are on the fence as to whether or not the violence is necessary, but it proves a point that this is a very serious sorepoint that is being contested.

tl;dr People (in particularl the US government) want Wikileaks torn down and Assange to be arrested and god knows what. Anon would have to do a lot to try and mount a defense of the site and Assange then DDoS a few sites.

Having said that though I'm pretty sure that if push came to shove they would step up. Then it would be cause for serious concern.


I hope that explains what I meant in my previous post, Dasmaster

 

[Boletes Net]

Freedom of Speech... sure, fine, I'm all for it.

Freedom to do whatever you want with the internet... no way in hell.

The internet is a luxury (not necessary to live) that costs people money, it needs rules. Feel free to go out and talk all you want to anyone who will listen.

Its not to do what you want, more to be able to broadcast your opinion, ironically they're fighting to let people say words like n***r or be ignorant because its a freedom to say what we want, the fact that people go to jail for 3 years for burning a book on youtube is compleatly rediculous regardless if the book has some kind of spiritual value to a group. The right to watch southpark 200 & 201 unedited....the freedoms that have been taken away from us without a word spoken.

 

[Saltyk]

I would like to point out that judging Anon on their previous actions isn't necessarily a good idea. Anon now is not the same Anon of ten minutes ago, nor will it be the same Anon ten minutes for now.

That said, lack of trust is still a good idea.

If Anon is constantly changing and may have been different people ten minutes ago and maybe different people ten minutes from now, how can you trust them? You can't. Because you never know who you are giving your trust to. Maybe I would have trusted them ten minutes ago, but now they are different. And the name says it all. They are Anonymous. They hide who they are. How can you trust the unknown person in the shadows. True, with some of their actions they may want to avoid identifying themselves or face prosecution, but to claim that they are never the same people leaves them completely untrustworthy.

Read through my post again, please.

I would like to point out that judging Anon on their previous actions isn't necessarily a good idea. Anon now is not the same Anon of ten minutes ago, nor will it be the same Anon ten minutes for now.

That said, lack of trust is still a good idea.

Emphasis added.

I think we have a misunderstanding. I was actually agreeing with you. I was just adding my own thoughts to the mix. I probably could have explained that better within my own post, and that is my mistake. But I did keep that last part in there for a reason.

The cynic in me wants to point out that Freedom of Speech is not a right, but a privilege that governments allow their citizens. Plenty of countries do not have or allow such freedoms. And plenty of people and ideas are denied Freedom of Speech protections (like Neo Nazis or child pornography) even in countries that do have such protections.

So Anonymous wants to be the good guy? Robin Hood fighting the good fight? It's a nice romantic idea, but not everything they do can be called good. Or even a strong effort. Most of their recent attacks are little more than annoyances to their targets. They need to get real and join the real world.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% for Freedom of Speech. I often say that Extremists are the worst thing in the world, yet identify myself as an Extremist for Freedom of Speech, but I realize that I'm talking about a privilege of being born in my nation. I'm also aware that people in other countries, like China, do not enjoy that privilege. And while that does make me sad, I know that Freedom of Speech will come to such countries from within far more effectively than without.

Now, I see that Anonymous is complaining about countries that enjoy Freedom of Speech privileges eroding those rights. And that is a concern of mine, too. So I agree with that sentiment. But attacking the websites of corporations and governments will do more harm than good. That only proves to those in power that the internet, and perhaps other mediums of communication and expression, need to be monitored or controlled. If Anonymous wants to help, they would be better off showing their faces and trying to help in meaningful ways. Standing up for the voiceless by shouting for them.

I'm sorry, but they are nothing more than children. And much like annoying screaming children would be better off being ignored by us.

Then i need to give you a proposal, why dont you join anonymous? Post your ideas and try your best to make them grow? I trust that there is allot of good people in anonymous that is doing allot of things i will never know about to more then enough tip the scale back into there favour. But that is my opinion

Who says I'm not?

In all seriousness, IF I were so inclined to join Anonymous to change the group from the inside, why wouldn't I just form my own counter organization? Or join another organization with similar goals and methods I prefer or can at least live with like the ACLU?

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

I agree with what they say, the internet should be free of any governmental rule. However, at the same time, I agree that certain documents should be kept hidden. We aren't giving up any freedom in letting them keep a secret, by not allowing them to keep a secret we are taking away their rights. This may be a realm where anonymous is wrong. I don't know, I still don't know what documents were leaked and how serious they were.


If you take away a man's right to secrecy, you take away his freedom of saying what he wants.

 

[Dasmaster]

There is a quote in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri that goes something along the lines of "Be wary of he who denies you information; for in his heart he wishes himself your master".

Whilst I sympathise with their goal of having a censor-free internet, I honestly don't think that DDoS attacks and protests will do anything to deter the likes of the US government or other organisations from doing so.

How about spreading proof of war crimes, cover ups and lawsuits? just saying...

That's Wikileaks, though.

What I meant was, in reference to their defense of Wikileaks, they would really have to up the ante in order to put up a meaningful fight.

Take the example of the student protests in the UK. People are protesting both peacefully and violently because the cost of going to university will go up. Many people are on the fence as to whether or not the violence is necessary, but it proves a point that this is a very serious sorepoint that is being contested.

tl;dr People (in particularl the US government) want Wikileaks torn down and Assange to be arrested and god knows what. Anon would have to do a lot to try and mount a defense of the site and Assange then DDoS a few sites.

Having said that though I'm pretty sure that if push came to shove they would step up. Then it would be cause for serious concern.


I hope that explains what I meant in my previous post, Dasmaster

Ya i know but this is really not anonymous thing to be honest, they are here to spread info and combat censorship. So wikileaks might be releasing the flies but anon will spread it like wildfire. Also i believe they have offered generous donations to the site amongst other things.

In the end they have to get creative again if they want to make a dent right now. They have showed that they are capable of these things when battling Scientology but the question is if they will poll it off again.

 

[RollForInitiative]

Aside from that they are against identity's so no matter if your a king or a farmer you are the same when in anonymity. Because of this they have no leaders, no corruption, no chain of command. And your what i call an complete idiot.

"Your." "An" complete idiot. Really. If you're going to insult somebody at least take the time to proofread your work, otherwise you just look like a complete and utter fool. It's certainly contributing to your capacity to change my opinion, oh yes indeed.

Grow up. Nothing is immune to corruption; especially not anything born of 4chan or the Internet in general. Feel free to keep feeding yourself that line if it makes you feel better but anybody with an ounce of real world knowledge knows otherwise.

It's just a question of whether or not you believe in the so-called cause that is being "championed" and, in this case, I quite frankly don't. Having a different opinion from you in no way makes me "an idiot," but thanks for weighing in and giving me a good laugh. I do appreciate it.

 

[Lizmichi]

I think it's insanely hypocritical to hide behind 'Anonymous' and demand others to give up every little bit of information they want.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call an "oh snap" rebuttal. Very well said.

ehmm.. not really... First of all anonymous is COMPLETELY transparent. You can go on there forums and read all about what they are doing etc..

Aside from that they are against identity's so no matter if your a king or a farmer you are the same when in anonymity. Because of this they have no leaders, no corruption, no chain of command. And your what i call an complete idiot.

Take this as you will but I noticed that most of your comments have been on this very tread. That could lead some to speculate you have some affiliation with Anon. As I said, this is just a fact less speculation.

 

[Dasmaster]

I would like to point out that judging Anon on their previous actions isn't necessarily a good idea. Anon now is not the same Anon of ten minutes ago, nor will it be the same Anon ten minutes for now.

That said, lack of trust is still a good idea.

If Anon is constantly changing and may have been different people ten minutes ago and maybe different people ten minutes from now, how can you trust them? You can't. Because you never know who you are giving your trust to. Maybe I would have trusted them ten minutes ago, but now they are different. And the name says it all. They are Anonymous. They hide who they are. How can you trust the unknown person in the shadows. True, with some of their actions they may want to avoid identifying themselves or face prosecution, but to claim that they are never the same people leaves them completely untrustworthy.

Read through my post again, please.

I would like to point out that judging Anon on their previous actions isn't necessarily a good idea. Anon now is not the same Anon of ten minutes ago, nor will it be the same Anon ten minutes for now.

That said, lack of trust is still a good idea.

Emphasis added.

I think we have a misunderstanding. I was actually agreeing with you. I was just adding my own thoughts to the mix. I probably could have explained that better within my own post, and that is my mistake. But I did keep that last part in there for a reason.

The cynic in me wants to point out that Freedom of Speech is not a right, but a privilege that governments allow their citizens. Plenty of countries do not have or allow such freedoms. And plenty of people and ideas are denied Freedom of Speech protections (like Neo Nazis or child pornography) even in countries that do have such protections.

So Anonymous wants to be the good guy? Robin Hood fighting the good fight? It's a nice romantic idea, but not everything they do can be called good. Or even a strong effort. Most of their recent attacks are little more than annoyances to their targets. They need to get real and join the real world.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% for Freedom of Speech. I often say that Extremists are the worst thing in the world, yet identify myself as an Extremist for Freedom of Speech, but I realize that I'm talking about a privilege of being born in my nation. I'm also aware that people in other countries, like China, do not enjoy that privilege. And while that does make me sad, I know that Freedom of Speech will come to such countries from within far more effectively than without.

Now, I see that Anonymous is complaining about countries that enjoy Freedom of Speech privileges eroding those rights. And that is a concern of mine, too. So I agree with that sentiment. But attacking the websites of corporations and governments will do more harm than good. That only proves to those in power that the internet, and perhaps other mediums of communication and expression, need to be monitored or controlled. If Anonymous wants to help, they would be better off showing their faces and trying to help in meaningful ways. Standing up for the voiceless by shouting for them.

I'm sorry, but they are nothing more than children. And much like annoying screaming children would be better off being ignored by us.

Then i need to give you a proposal, why dont you join anonymous? Post your ideas and try your best to make them grow? I trust that there is allot of good people in anonymous that is doing allot of things i will never know about to more then enough tip the scale back into there favour. But that is my opinion

Who says I'm not?

In all seriousness, IF I were so inclined to join Anonymous to change the group from the inside, why wouldn't I just form my own counter organization? Or join another organization with similar goals and methods I prefer or can at least live with like the ACLU?

Your misunderstanding anonymous. Its a collective of members who wants to help. If you post an idea that appeals to what they want to help with they will do there best to help you and spread the word. Its not some organisation and i cant think of a "rivalling organisation" :/

 

[Dasmaster]

I think it's insanely hypocritical to hide behind 'Anonymous' and demand others to give up every little bit of information they want.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call an "oh snap" rebuttal. Very well said.

ehmm.. not really... First of all anonymous is COMPLETELY transparent. You can go on there forums and read all about what they are doing etc..

Aside from that they are against identity's so no matter if your a king or a farmer you are the same when in anonymity. Because of this they have no leaders, no corruption, no chain of command. And your what i call an complete idiot.

Take this as you will but I noticed that most of your comments have been on this very tread. That could lead some to speculate you have some affiliation with Anon. As I said, this is just a fact less speculation.

I have no personal connection with anonymous, i ran into them earlier when they combated Scientology and i happened to see this thread when i was watching unskippable.

 

[Lizmichi]

I think it's insanely hypocritical to hide behind 'Anonymous' and demand others to give up every little bit of information they want.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call an "oh snap" rebuttal. Very well said.

ehmm.. not really... First of all anonymous is COMPLETELY transparent. You can go on there forums and read all about what they are doing etc..

Aside from that they are against identity's so no matter if your a king or a farmer you are the same when in anonymity. Because of this they have no leaders, no corruption, no chain of command. And your what i call an complete idiot.

Take this as you will but I noticed that most of your comments have been on this very tread. That could lead some to speculate you have some affiliation with Anon. As I said, this is just a fact less speculation.

I have no personal connection with anonymous, i ran into them earlier when they combated Scientology and i happened to see this thread when i was watching unskippable.

As I said, just speculation. More a curious question then anything. When I see something odd I investigate it and find the answer.

 

[Dasmaster]

Aside from that they are against identity's so no matter if your a king or a farmer you are the same when in anonymity. Because of this they have no leaders, no corruption, no chain of command. And your what i call an complete idiot.

"Your." "An" complete idiot. Really. If you're going to insult somebody at least take the time to proofread your work, otherwise you just look like a complete and utter fool. It's certainly contributing to your capacity to change my opinion, oh yes indeed.

Grow up. Nothing is immune to corruption; especially not anything born of 4chan or the Internet in general. Feel free to keep feeding yourself that line if it makes you feel better but anybody with an ounce of real world knowledge knows otherwise.

It's just a question of whether or not you believe in the so-called cause that is being "championed" and, in this case, I quite frankly don't. Having a different opinion from you in no way makes me "an idiot," but thanks for weighing in and giving me a good laugh. I do appreciate it.

First of all since im not english in origin i couldnt give a flying retards RollForInitiative's balls about how my grammar is. Secondly how can you corrupt a pure idea inside a free forum?

The amount of stupidity that is oozing out of you is nearing toxic levels and i advice everyone to buy an environmental suite.